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Old 06-06-2008, 09:10 PM   #51
IndyCon
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Mothy I respect your opinion and I don't mind open discussion on the subject of the good and bad points about KOTCS but this thread is pacifically for people who loved KOTCS to talk about what the loved about the movie, not what they hate there is a thread for that so please go to that thread, if you have something good to say about KOTCS then by all means do so but please no hate in this thread. Thank You.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:52 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mothy
I strongly disagree. You either are very easily pleased or sitting in a cot with a toy laptop writing this stuff out. When you get a little older, you will see what trash they dished out with KOTCS.

I'm probably older than most of the so called fans that trash KOTCS. I am not making insane claims. I don't for a second compare KOTCS to any of the original Indy movies. I had realistic expectations going into this movie.

--Will.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mothy
KOTCS should not have been made.

Crusade had the perfect finale, riding off into the sunset. All KOTCS has done is tarnish the brand and people's opinions of the series. Sure, a select few may like it, but the overall population despise it. They even laugh at it, at Indy's expense.

The last film does not compare with the other three and leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. It is better to fade away gracefull than burn out. They should have remained back in 1989, with pride intact.
Just pretend it doesn't exist and I'll do the same with you!

I saw it again last night. My 3rd time. It's still in the largest theater AZ and it was sold out! The crowd was older than 2 weeks ago (mostly 30's and up since the teens likely saw "Zohan" and kiddies went to "Panda") and the response was more positive. Older fans like me do not waist time on the internet (as I do) and do not ***** about films not being some great cinematic experience. They wanted a fun time and got it. This film appeals to older generations more too. Indy is much older, Marion is older, the plot is geared more towards films that an older generation grew yup with. Also, even if Mutt was maybe put in for younger people to identify with it actually is something that my parents get because they were like Mutt in the 50's.

There may be a 50/50 split here for those who like it but outside of the threads it's a hit and the numbers prove it. I wouldn't be surprised if it does another $35 million this weekend!

Last edited by sandiegojones : 06-07-2008 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:54 PM   #54
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I think KOTCS is a solid entry in the series.

I had a tepid reaction after my initial viewing, but appreciated it much more the second time around. For example, I didn't like the Doomstown sequence the first time. Indy just struck me as looking ridiculous running around that town, ducking under clotheslines, etc. However, putting it in context, that whole scene was supposed to be surreal and it worked much better for me on the second viewing.

The movie is not Raiders. Raiders was my favorite, and I probably harbored the hope that maybe KOTCS could be as good (my mistake). Raiders had a grittier feel to it with action sequence after action sequence. There was humor, but it was almost incidental to the action. The other movies since Raiders have opted for a slightly lighter feel with more gags.

Also, while the action in Raiders was over the top, you somehow never lost your sense that, just maybe, Indy could have really pulled it off. It just seemed that Indy pursued a given course of action because he was out of options. Could anyone have really pulled off that truck sequence in Raiders? Unlikely, but when Indy starts sliding under the truck it seemed like he was doing the only thing he could at the time.

If you contrast that with the "rubber-tree" sequence in KOTCS when Marion drives off the cliff into the tree that gently bends them to the river below, it just feels somewhat forced. It looked cool, but it felt choreographed, while the Raiders truck chase felt spontaneous.

I thought KOTCS also got a little bogged down in character management. Raiders had two main characters, Indy and Marion, with some classic villians. TOD then had three with Indy, Willie, and Shorty. LC was mostly Indy and his Dad (with Marcus and Sallah along for the ride). In KOTCS we're juggling five characters for last half of the movie - Indy, Mutt, Marion, Mac, and Ox. Action was somewhat sacrificed in order to manage the character relationships. And with that many characters, some of them are inevitably going to end up being a little thin (Mac and Ox in my opinion).

But this is a "lovers" thread, and while I prefer the tone of Raiders, the other sequels retain enough elements that they are undeniably Indy films, including KOTCS.

I loved that they showed the Ark in the warehouse, but Indy didn't see it (although he does in the novelization). It would have been difficult to show it to Indy during that sequence. He was running for his life. Having shown it to the viewer without Indy seeing it was the clever option. Indy will never know how close he was.

I loved the motorcycle chase through New Haven. The second time I watched it, I saw it with my father and he kept pointing out the make and model of all the cars.

I loved how they were respectful of the fact that Indy was older, but that didn't become a drumbeat joke through the whole movie. Mutt cracks a joke, and Indy makes a reference himself, but we don't hear a bunch of corny lines about creaking bones or "I'm getting too old for this". Indy was also not a shell of himself. The action sequences for the most part hold their own with the other movies.

I loved how Marion was brought back to the series. It made perfect sense. You are going to have a love interest for Indy, but the good professor is presumably in his mid-50s. He's not going to pick up some hot young babe, and if he's going to be with someone closer to his age, it only made sense to have a rekindled romance with one of his former flames. Marion was obvious choice because of all their history. I just wish she had been brought into story sooner (in a twist, I thought she could have come to Indy early in the movie and told him that he had a son that had been kidnapped. Basically, I would have switched the timing of her role with Mutt's. That would have re-established her much sooner, and would have made the revitalized romance a little more believable).

I loved the relationship with Mutt and Indy. There was some clever juxtaposition of the Indy / Henry Jones relationship from LC. Even before they find out they are father and son, you sense a growing respect between the two.

So all in all, it was a fun film, and one that can stand beside the other sequels.

By the by, did anyone else think Indy's first line was going to be "Russians! I hate these guys", as opposed to just "Russians!"?
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:20 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzycmk
By the by, did anyone else think Indy's first line was going to be "Russians! I hate these guys", as opposed to just "Russians!"?
It would have been cool if he said it when they show up in the chamber at the end after thinking they'd lost them.
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #56
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I liked it too, go Indy!!! (and bring on Indy 5!)
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:21 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by jazzycmk
By the by, did anyone else think Indy's first line was going to be "Russians! I hate these guys", as opposed to just "Russians!"?

Yeah, it did strike me as similar. And I think the intent/implication was still there, without them having to verbalize it.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:28 PM   #58
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This movie was great . I get past the faults because it is pure Indy the whole way.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:12 PM   #59
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I don't get the hate it's not a bad movie like TPM or AOTC. Who cares if the end was weird. TOD was pretty different from Raiders & Crusade.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:28 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by jazzycmk
By the by, did anyone else think Indy's first line was going to be "Russians! I hate these guys", as opposed to just "Russians!"?

I think "Russians" was fine by itself.

That whole opening sequence at Area 51 is just great stuff. I love the way they pull Winstone out of the trunk of the car (he really sells it too),,,and then the fedora toss, Indy shoved to the ground, and the almost defiant fedora pickup.

Not only do we get the silhouette of Indy on the car door with the strains of the "Raiders March" playing, but then it smoothly transitions into the car door opening and the barking Russian orders of the soldier exiting the car.

That whole opening is on fire. Love it!
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:00 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by tambourineman
Count me in. Just saw it, loved it. Really made me feel like a child again. They dont make movies like this anymore, just a really fun adventure film with one great scene after another. The warehouse escape, the nuke, the 50's cafe and greaser fight, the motorbike chase, the quicksand, the jungle chase, the waterfalls, the ants, the temple, the UFO, I loved it all!

I also think Indy's reaction to seeing Marion for the first time was priceless, one of the all time funniest Indy moments

Her walking past Indy to huge Mutt makes it even better.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:17 PM   #62
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I'm going to see Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for the 5th time tomorrow and I can't wait I'm as excited as I was three weeks ago before seeing it for the first time.




INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL RULES!!!
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by IndyCon



INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL RULES!!!


Damn skippy!!!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothy
KOTCS should not have been made.

Crusade had the perfect finale, riding off into the sunset. All KOTCS has done is tarnish the brand and people's opinions of the series. Sure, a select few may like it, but the overall population despise it. They even laugh at it, at Indy's expense.

The last film does not compare with the other three and leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. It is better to fade away gracefull than burn out. They should have remained back in 1989, with pride intact.

Yeah, that is why it has made more money than the other three. I think that proves that the overall population love it.

$257,620,035 million puts it at #41 all-time and about to pass Jaws at $260,000.000

Last edited by eroc : 06-11-2008 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:39 AM   #64
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I will add my vote here. Saw it the second time and found it better again. Bring on Indy5 and plenty more whip action.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:47 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroc
Damn skippy!!!!!!





Yeah, that is why it has made more money than the other three. I think that proves that the overall population love it.

$257,620,035 million puts it at #41 all-time and about to pass Jaws at $260,000.000

Your'e so right
Another thing i don't get. It seems that 'everyone' hates KOTC, but i have read many polls about this movie and most people give it a 4/5... Even on the Raiders.net poll.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothy
KOTCS should not have been made.

Crusade had the perfect finale, riding off into the sunset. All KOTCS has done is tarnish the brand and people's opinions of the series. Sure, a select few may like it, but the overall population despise it. They even laugh at it, at Indy's expense.

The last film does not compare with the other three and leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. It is better to fade away gracefull than burn out. They should have remained back in 1989, with pride intact.

If there are only a select few that like it why is it still number 3 in USA box office? The only movies that made more money were the movies that were just released. More people like it than you realize. And this one puts Temple of Doom to shame.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by jazzycmk
I think KOTCS is a solid entry in the series.

I had a tepid reaction after my initial viewing, but appreciated it much more the second time around. For example, I didn't like the Doomstown sequence the first time. Indy just struck me as looking ridiculous running around that town, ducking under clotheslines, etc. However, putting it in context, that whole scene was supposed to be surreal and it worked much better for me on the second viewing.

The movie is not Raiders. Raiders was my favorite, and I probably harbored the hope that maybe KOTCS could be as good (my mistake). Raiders had a grittier feel to it with action sequence after action sequence. There was humor, but it was almost incidental to the action. The other movies since Raiders have opted for a slightly lighter feel with more gags.

Also, while the action in Raiders was over the top, you somehow never lost your sense that, just maybe, Indy could have really pulled it off. It just seemed that Indy pursued a given course of action because he was out of options. Could anyone have really pulled off that truck sequence in Raiders? Unlikely, but when Indy starts sliding under the truck it seemed like he was doing the only thing he could at the time.

If you contrast that with the "rubber-tree" sequence in KOTCS when Marion drives off the cliff into the tree that gently bends them to the river below, it just feels somewhat forced. It looked cool, but it felt choreographed, while the Raiders truck chase felt spontaneous.

I thought KOTCS also got a little bogged down in character management. Raiders had two main characters, Indy and Marion, with some classic villians. TOD then had three with Indy, Willie, and Shorty. LC was mostly Indy and his Dad (with Marcus and Sallah along for the ride). In KOTCS we're juggling five characters for last half of the movie - Indy, Mutt, Marion, Mac, and Ox. Action was somewhat sacrificed in order to manage the character relationships. And with that many characters, some of them are inevitably going to end up being a little thin (Mac and Ox in my opinion).

But this is a "lovers" thread, and while I prefer the tone of Raiders, the other sequels retain enough elements that they are undeniably Indy films, including KOTCS.

I loved that they showed the Ark in the warehouse, but Indy didn't see it (although he does in the novelization). It would have been difficult to show it to Indy during that sequence. He was running for his life. Having shown it to the viewer without Indy seeing it was the clever option. Indy will never know how close he was.

I loved the motorcycle chase through New Haven. The second time I watched it, I saw it with my father and he kept pointing out the make and model of all the cars.

I loved how they were respectful of the fact that Indy was older, but that didn't become a drumbeat joke through the whole movie. Mutt cracks a joke, and Indy makes a reference himself, but we don't hear a bunch of corny lines about creaking bones or "I'm getting too old for this". Indy was also not a shell of himself. The action sequences for the most part hold their own with the other movies.

I loved how Marion was brought back to the series. It made perfect sense. You are going to have a love interest for Indy, but the good professor is presumably in his mid-50s. He's not going to pick up some hot young babe, and if he's going to be with someone closer to his age, it only made sense to have a rekindled romance with one of his former flames. Marion was obvious choice because of all their history. I just wish she had been brought into story sooner (in a twist, I thought she could have come to Indy early in the movie and told him that he had a son that had been kidnapped. Basically, I would have switched the timing of her role with Mutt's. That would have re-established her much sooner, and would have made the revitalized romance a little more believable).

I loved the relationship with Mutt and Indy. There was some clever juxtaposition of the Indy / Henry Jones relationship from LC. Even before they find out they are father and son, you sense a growing respect between the two.

So all in all, it was a fun film, and one that can stand beside the other sequels.

By the by, did anyone else think Indy's first line was going to be "Russians! I hate these guys", as opposed to just "Russians!"?

This was a great review!!! This was the most non bias, fair and honest review I have seen for this film. Giving both pros and cons. And I agree with you all the way, except the switching Marion and Mutt. I think that was suppose to be the twist you were looking for, but everyone found out about Karen Allen's return and had already guest Indy was going to have a kid. One of the older rumorers (really old) was that Indy was going to have a daughter. Imagine Karen Allen stepping out of that tent and Mutt saying Mom. If they had been able to keep her a secret. We would have all be saying Oh yeah Marions back!!!

Last edited by Filmphoenix : 06-12-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:14 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mothy
I strongly disagree. You either are very easily pleased or sitting in a cot with a toy laptop writing this stuff out. When you get a little older, you will see what trash they dished out with KOTCS.

I'm probably older than you, and remember everyone saying alot of the same stuff about The Temple of Doom when it first came out. Everyone HATED Short Round, the HATED Willie Scott, they HATED the story.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Sharlow
Hi All

I'm a newbie here, and I've been reading your great board for the last week.

I went to see KOTCS on Thursday with my husband, and we both really enjoyed it. I loved it so much I'm going to watch it again tomorrow on my own and will most likely go again with my mum, who's a huge Indy fan from way back.

I've gotta say I agree with a lot of the arguments presented on this board as to the depth of the story etc, but I go to the movies and watch them at home for entertainment value, and this one certainly delivered that in spades. I loved the sword fight/truck chase part thru the forrest, I laughed myself silly in a couple of places and the romantic in me sighed at the end when he got hitched.

All in all it touched all the bases, and I was very pleased to see that Harrison Ford is still as gorgeous as ever in that hat and jacket, and that the past 20 years haven't impacted on him quite as badly as I thought they might.

Jo

Welcome, Frauline, to our humble abode. The bar is NOT closed (thank heavens!), and we indeed ARE thirsty for new KOTCS lovers. We all love the same thing our friend Doctor Jones loves---kick ass adventure and excitement! I hope for your sake you have not yet aquired Anti-KOTCSitis! What's that? "I'm not used to people bossing me around on websites"? Frauline Sharlow, let me tell you what I am used to!!!



50 grand to whoever guesses the source of my gag.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by eroc
Indy 4 was a great movie. Two thumbs up! It may have been too deep for some of these people...and that's sad.

Yeah, as in Lucas went off the deep end.

Beam me up, Indy!
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:04 PM   #71
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Indy 4 was a great movie. Two thumbs up! It may have been too deep for some of these people...and that's sad.

KOTCS deep... that's the most hilarious thing Ive ever heard. Id hate to see what films you think shallow.
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:38 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by kongisking
Welcome, Frauline, to our humble abode. The bar is NOT closed (thank heavens!), and we indeed ARE thirsty for new KOTCS lovers. We all love the same thing our friend Doctor Jones loves---kick ass adventure and excitement! I hope for your sake you have not yet aquired Anti-KOTCSitis! What's that? "I'm not used to people bossing me around on websites"? Frauline Sharlow, let me tell you what I am used to!!!



50 grand to whoever guesses the source of my gag.

Hi and thanks for the welcome, no chance of anti-KOTCSitis here, been and seen the movie 3 times now, took my mum last weekend and she absolutely loved it, and she wasn't keen to go coz she thought he'd be old.

Would love to take your money, the quote is familier but it's just not quite getting thru.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by kongisking
Welcome, Frauline, to our humble abode. The bar is NOT closed (thank heavens!), and we indeed ARE thirsty for new KOTCS lovers. We all love the same thing our friend Doctor Jones loves---kick ass adventure and excitement! I hope for your sake you have not yet aquired Anti-KOTCSitis! What's that? "I'm not used to people bossing me around on websites"? Frauline Sharlow, let me tell you what I am used to!!!

Love it! Wherever could it have come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filmphoenix
Imagine Karen Allen stepping out of that tent and Mutt saying Mom. If they had been able to keep her a secret. We would have all be saying Oh yeah Marions back!!!

I've been thinking about that- if they had been able to pull off keeping Marion a secret until the film premiered, that would have been something! Though, would they have wound up opening the film at Cannes, 4 days before the world at large got to see it? Hard to see how they really could have pulled off keeping it quiet towards the end. But it would have been amazing!
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:27 PM   #74
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The reason why KOTCS is making money, is because people are hoping it is going to be as good as the previous three. Cashing in on memories, just like the first teaser. It just is not as good as the trilogy, no way near. Temple of Doom is a classic compared to this tripe.

Filmphoenix, get real. TOD is totally different beast that KOTCS. At least TOD is grounded, hell, anything is grounded compared to KOTCS. The arguments made against KOTCS are by far stronger than those made against TOD. KOTCS will not age as well as TOD did.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:33 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Mothy
The reason why KOTCS is making money, is because people are hoping it is going to be as good as the previous three. Cashing in on memories, just like the first teaser. It just is not as good as the trilogy, no way near. Temple of Doom is a classic compared to this tripe.

Filmphoenix, get real. TOD is totally different beast that KOTCS. At least TOD is grounded, hell, anything is grounded compared to KOTCS. The arguments made against KOTCS are by far stronger than those made against TOD. KOTCS will not age as well as TOD did.


Wow! You've been to the future?? That's amazing! What other incredible things can you tell us from the future?? Please share!!



You've also taken the time to interview every single person who has paid to see Indy4! But for a time traveler, that's not so hard! Sheesh, you''re an extraordinary guy!
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