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Old 03-08-2017, 05:37 PM   #151
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
He isn't wrong that the conflict began when a full scale war erupted between Japan and China in 1937, but it was still a regional conflict at that point and not yet "a world war." Even once Germany invaded Poland in 1939 it was still two separate conflicts. It wasn't until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor that the two conflicts became part of one larger struggle that we refer to as WWII. So it is at least debatable.
Military history is one of my greatest passions so I know the events. My main objection is that the conflict didn’t create a ‘world war’, which is what Kai Hagen seemed to imply.

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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
I think TOD has great villains but I would have loved to see Indy battle the Imperial Japanese military on the big screen. A movie set during WWII would have been great but at this point Harrison is too old to portray the character at that stage of his life, even though Indy mentions in Skull that he was a part of missions in the Pacific Theater.
Indy battling the Japs during the WW2 era is a great idea. That’s why I love “Tales of the Gold Monkey” so much and also the Dark Horse comic series, “Indiana Jones and the Thunder of the Orient”.

However, it's silly for Kai Hagen to say, “I would've liked The Temple of Doom more if it showed..."

I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a larger presence of the British Raj.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a longer dance routine.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy in an opium den.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy going to the moon.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed ... (blah, blah, blah.)
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:48 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by RareAntiquities
Seeing Indiana Jones dressed in a James Bond fashion was a nice touch.
I thought it was a Bond homage as well but I believe it was actually meant to evoke the look of Humphrey Bogart's character Rick in "Casablanca."
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:00 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by DeepSixFix
I thought it was a Bond homage as well but I believe it was actually meant to evoke the look of Humphrey Bogart's character Rick in "Casablanca."
It was. He comes down a spiral staircase in the same way. An homage that many Indy fans don't seem to realize.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:27 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Military history is one of my greatest passions so I know the events. My main objection is that the conflict didn’t create a ‘world war’, which is what Kai Hagen seemed to imply.
It depends on how you look at it. For the people in that region, the fighting started before 1939. Of course, I'm not saying that it caused the conflict in Europe. But then neither did the invasion of Poland start the conflict in Asia.

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Originally Posted by Stoo
Indy battling the Japs during the WW2 era is a great idea. That’s why I love “Tales of the Gold Monkey” so much and also the Dark Horse comic series, “Indiana Jones and the Thunder of the Orient”.
Well those stories didn't become a film. So the Temple of Doom would've been the best chance to see the Japanese military.

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Originally Posted by Stoo
However, it's silly for Kai Hagen to say, “I would've liked The Temple of Doom more if it showed..."

I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a larger presence of the British Raj.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a longer dance routine.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy in an opium den.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy going to the moon.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed ... (blah, blah, blah.)
Are you Steven Spielberg? Why are you being so sensitive about this?

Last edited by Kai Hagen : 03-09-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:47 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Military history is one of my greatest passions so I know the events. My main objection is that the conflict didn’t create a ‘world war’, which is what Kai Hagen seemed to imply.

Indy battling the Japs during the WW2 era is a great idea. That’s why I love “Tales of the Gold Monkey” so much and also the Dark Horse comic series, “Indiana Jones and the Thunder of the Orient”.

However, it's silly for Kai Hagen to say, “I would've liked The Temple of Doom more if it showed..."

I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a larger presence of the British Raj.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed a longer dance routine.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy in an opium den.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed Indy going to the moon.
I would’ve liked ToD more if it showed ... (blah, blah, blah.)

I didn't mean for it to come off that I was agreeing with the lack of the Japanese Military being shown on screen (though they are mentioned) as a fault of the film. I love TOD and I love the villains. I was just agreeing that it would have been cool to see Indy battle the Imperial Japanese on screen. Too bad Harrison is now to old for a WWII set Indy film. You did mention some examples in other media and you could add the novel "Secret of the Spinx" to that list.

I know, like me you also have a passion for military history (I actually teach social studies for a living). So I was just saying that he isn't off base with that comment and I didn't mean to imply that you lacked knowledge on the subject or argument he was trying to make. You could argue the Second Sino-Japanese war that started in 1937 eventually became a part of the global struggle we call WWII. The German invasion of Poland is usually considered the start of WWII but even at that time it was primarily relegated to Western and Central Europe. It really didn't became a global struggle until 1941 with the war spreading to North Africa, USSR and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which linked to two conflicts together. I know you are familiar with all this so it wasn't meant to imply you lacked knowledge on the subject.

I also would have loved to see more of the British Raj and an even longer dance number to start the film would have been fine by me!

Anyway, back to the topic of why we love Temple of Doom, I always felt that Indy walking down the stairs in the white tuxedo was an homage to Rick in Casablanca which is one of my favorite films from that era of Hollywood.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:19 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Stoo
It was. He comes down a spiral staircase in the same way. An homage that many Indy fans don't seem to realize.

I just watched Casablanca the other day for the first time. Definitely influenced by that film.

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Agreed. Welcome back, Henry W Jones! ]

Thank you Stoo!!
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
It depends on how you look at it. For the people in that region, the fighting started before 1939. Of course, I'm not saying that it caused the conflict in Europe.
I never accused you of making such a claim. Certainly, there was fighting in Asia before 1939 but it didn’t cause outside nations to declare war in defence of either side. Had you written something like, ‘Fighting began in Asia before WWII began in Europe’, I wouldn’t have opposed. So it really “depends” on how you say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
Well those stories didn't become a film. So the Temple of Doom would've been the best chance to see the Japanese military.
Tales of the Gold Monkey” isn’t an Indiana Jones story. It’s a TV series from 1982-83. If you’re into seeing a WW2-era-leather-jacket-wearing adventurer who confronts the Japanese army & navy & air force, then I highly suggest checking it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
Are you Steven Spielberg? Why are you being so sensitive about this?
Because I’m a sensitive guy. Seriously, your comment came across as if the film wasn’t good enough because it “left out” the Japs. There’s only so much that can be crammed into 13 minutes but you wanted both the Japanese navy AND its air force involved? It seems like you’d prefer “Doom” to have the prologue set in India with the rest of the film in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
I didn't mean for it to come off that I was agreeing with the lack of the Japanese Military being shown on screen (though they are mentioned) as a fault of the film. I love TOD and I love the villains. I was just agreeing that it would have been cool to see Indy battle the Imperial Japanese on screen. Too bad Harrison is now to old for a WWII set Indy film. You did mention some examples in other media and you could add the novel "Secret of the Spinx" to that list.
Yes, indeed, “it would have been cool”. (Kai Hagen should’ve used that phrase instead.)

Forgot about “Secret of the Sphinx”. Nice addition!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
I know, like me you also have a passion for military history (I actually teach social studies for a living). So I was just saying that he isn't off base with that comment and I didn't mean to imply that you lacked knowledge on the subject or argument he was trying to make. You could argue the Second Sino-Japanese war that started in 1937 eventually became a part of the global struggle we call WWII. The German invasion of Poland is usually considered the start of WWII but even at that time it was primarily relegated to Western and Central Europe. It really didn't became a global struggle until 1941 with the war spreading to North Africa, USSR and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which linked to two conflicts together. I know you are familiar with all this so it wasn't meant to imply you lacked knowledge on the subject.
No offence taken so don’t worry. If I ever get back to Long Island again, we’ll go for a beer, yes?

There's no argument that the Japanese-Chinese War became absorbed into the larger picture but it was not the basis of WW2. That said, I must come down on you hard for thinking that things didn't get "global" until 1941. Several non-European nations declared war straight away in Sept. 1939 (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Rhodesia, India, Nepal, etc.) so it was global from the get-go. As for geography, WW2 had already spread outside of Europe by 1940: to Africa (North, East & West), the Middle East and French Indochina. Heck, how ‘bout the famous Battle of the River Plate? That was South America in 1939!

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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
I also would have loved to see more of the British Raj and an even longer dance number to start the film would have been fine by me!
Apart from the British Raj, I was joking about the rest. Kind of like saying:

I would've liked Crusade more if it showed the U.S. cavalry & artillery in the Utah scene.
I would've liked Raiders more if it showed (insert fantasy here) in the Peru scene.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:11 PM   #158
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Of course once Britain went to war so did the rest of the Empire (although the commenwealth had a choice to declare war unlike in WWI) and I meant no disrespect to your homeland of Canada which provided a great deal for the Allies. My point was that for the most part the fighting was located in Europe and the Mediterranean Sea. Most of the British Empire was fighting to support the island of Britain in their struggle against Germany not to defend their homelands (which for many that would come later after Japan entered the fray). Plus you include the fighting in Indochina between Japan and Vichy France but how can you include that as part of WWII if you are not considering Japan to be a part of WWII until after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I am not arguing with you that the German invasion of Poland on September 1st 1939 isn't a valid date for the start of WWII, just that you can argue the fighting began earlier ( I have seen some historians who go even further to the Italian invasion of Ethiopia or even the Japanese invasion of Manchuria).

As for the beer, that would be awesome next time your in NYC or Long Island
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:51 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Plus you include the fighting in Indochina between Japan and Vichy France but how can you include that as part of WWII if you are not considering Japan to be a part of WWII until after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I am not arguing with you that the German invasion of Poland on September 1st 1939 isn't a valid date for the start of WWII, just that you can argue the fighting began earlier ( I have seen some historians who go even further to the Italian invasion of Ethiopia or even the Japanese invasion of Manchuria).
Dr.Jones1986, I never indicated that Japan entered WW2 only because of Pearl Harbor. The Nips became a part of WW2 by their invasion of French Indochina in 1940. To my knowledge, that was the first WW2 attack by Japan against "the West". (The French Foreign Legion fought there.) I'm talking about 1940. Which action are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
As for the beer, that would be awesome next time your in NYC or Long Island
Our beers will probably be in Forest Hills.

---
Why do I love "Temple of Doom"? It has roller-coaster action and a magnificently gorgeous leading lady!
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:36 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Stoo
Dr.Jones1986, I never indicated that Japan entered WW2 only because of Pearl Harbor. The Nips became a part of WW2 by their invasion of French Indochina in 1940. To my knowledge, that was the first WW2 attack by Japan against "the West". (The French Foreign Legion fought there.) I'm talking about 1940. Which action are you referring to?

Our beers will probably be in Forest Hills.

---
Why do I love "Temple of Doom"? It has roller-coaster action and a magnificently gorgeous leading lady!

I was referring to the 1940 Indochina incident. It is a little different from the rest of Japan's involvement because they were not fighting against an Allied nation but a puppet state to the Axis. Japan would not sign the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy until a day after the fighting with Vichy France was over. Like the war in China it wasn't yet tied directly to what was going on in Europe until after Pearl Harbor. It certainly was a prelude to the attack on Pearl Harbor and it would influence the US to take action against Japan.

Forest Hills is a great neighborhood and my current apartment is just south of there in Queens so that would be a great spot to meet. What would bring you to Forest Hills, do you have friends or family there?

As far as the gorgeous leading lady I agree, though I may have to rank her #3 on my list of Indy's love interests.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:42 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Japan would not sign the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy until a day after the fighting with Vichy France was over. Like the war in China it wasn't yet tied directly to what was going on in Europe until after Pearl Harbor. It certainly was a prelude to the attack on Pearl Harbor and it would influence the US to take action against Japan.
I won't belabour this point other than to say that you've taught me something new.

However...WW2 still went global before 1941!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Forest Hills is a great neighborhood and my current apartment is just south of there in Queens so that would be a great spot to meet. What would bring you to Forest Hills, do you have friends or family there?
Friends (almost family) are in Forest Hills.

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I LOVE "Doom" because of it's the only film where Indiana Jones rides an elephant.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:51 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Stoo
I never accused you of making such a claim. Certainly, there was fighting in Asia before 1939 but it didn’t cause outside nations to declare war in defence of either side. Had you written something like, ‘Fighting began in Asia before WWII began in Europe’, I wouldn’t have opposed. So it really “depends” on how you say it.
It still depends on how you interpret it. The Japanese invasion of China wasn't a small conflict and shouldn't be ignored. The Temple of Doom takes place in 1935. The Japanese were already in China during that year. Also, note that the US placed an oil embargo on Japan in response to Japan invading China further. That led to Japan striking Pearl Harbor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Because I’m a sensitive guy. Seriously, your comment came across as if the film wasn’t good enough because it “left out” the Japs. There’s only so much that can be crammed into 13 minutes but you wanted both the Japanese navy AND its air force involved? It seems like you’d prefer “Doom” to have the prologue set in India with the rest of the film in China.

Yes, indeed, “it would have been cool”. (Kai Hagen should’ve used that phrase instead.)
"I would've liked The Temple of Doom more if..." doesn't mean that it was a bad film.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:23 AM   #163
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We love Temple of Doom because it just works. I was over at a buddy's house this weekend and he decided to put the movie on since it was on Amazon Prime, so I sat through viewing #93823 of Temple of Doom. My buddy's young daughter - far too young to be watching this movie - was totally into it. Freaking out during the scary parts, jumping up and down during the exciting parts. It was just playing her like a grand piano, and I related.

There's something about Temple that appeals to our reptile brains, I think. It's a movie that sets out to have fun and is proud of it. It never seems to get tired even though it never stops moving or piling on the insanity. And that rope bridge scene still looks like a trillion bucks.

I consider this the last movie to be made by "Version 1.0 Spielberg," and boy did he go out with a bang.

The people who try to give Crystal Skull a backhanded compliment by claiming it's "no worse than Temple" are out of their minds. Temple has got a real pulse, and it's endlessly rewatchable.

Last edited by Udvarnoky : 03-28-2017 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:19 PM   #164
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Temple of Doom was the first Indy movie I watched a yearling. I still remember the mine cart scene with such fond memories.

ToD definitely had the best sidekick in Short Round (compared to Sallah from Raiders, Dad? from LC, and Mac/Mutt from KotCS)

Willie was not Marion, by far, but she was different than the other women in the movies (Spalko, German, etc.) in that she and Indy were together the entire time and their relationship had an arc throughout the film.

Also, i think the action as the most extravagant and unbelievable, but because of that ti gives a much more roller coaster ride than the other films.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:28 PM   #165
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Because it rocks?
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:04 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
And that rope bridge scene still looks like a trillion bucks.


Agreed on the rope bridge scene. In a way I think its a masterwork subversion of how the hero normally would get out of an impossible situation like that. In this case, Indy was ready in that moment to just take Mola Ram down with him. I think it was purely sheer luck that the other half of the bridge held up like it did. But yeah, I loved that part, as it showed how Mola Ram for all his bluster was only too willing to throw his lackeys under the bus for sheer self-preservation.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:23 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
It still depends on how you interpret it.
No, it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
The Japanese invasion of China wasn't a small conflict and shouldn't be ignored. The Temple of Doom takes place in 1935. The Japanese were already in China during that year. Also, note that the US placed an oil embargo on Japan in response to Japan invading China further. That led to Japan striking Pearl Harbor.
Indeed, the Japanese invasion of China was large but it was not the start of WW2. Don't confuse things. It was a preface to WW2, not a global DECLARTION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Hagen
"I would've liked The Temple of Doom more if..." doesn't mean that it was a bad film.
"I would've liked your post more if" it left no room for misinterpretation. Doesn't mean that it was a bad post.

Last edited by Stoo : 04-25-2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:03 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Stoo
No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Indeed, the Japanese invasion of China was large but it was not the start of WW2. Don't confuse things. It was a preface to WW2, not a global DECLARTION.
For Asia, it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
"I would've liked your post more if" it left no room for misinterpretation. Doesn't mean that it was a bad post.
I would've liked your post more if you weren't so sensitive to something that wasn't even directed to anyone in this forum. It was directed at a movie. Doesn't mean that it was a bad post.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:03 AM   #169
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This was my favorite Indy film growing up. There's just something exciting and sinister about the plot that draws you in, not to mention the last 30 minutes is perfectly choreographed. I have yet to see another film that can weave so many intricate action sequences together so fluidly, at least to me. Some have come close but the last act of Temple is in a league of its own. I do agree with a previous poster that seeing Indy go up against the Japanese would have made for a great enemy, though a bloodthirsty cult is certainly different and helps differentiate the film even further from the others.

It's not perfect film but I love it for what it is and there's a certain charm about it that keeps it in solid second place for me after Raiders.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:04 AM   #170
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It would've been interesting if they had gone with a tween Maharani instead of the Maharajah. I mean the way they dressed him, he might as well have been a princess.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:44 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyBuff
This was my favorite Indy film growing up. There's just something exciting and sinister about the plot that draws you in, not to mention the last 30 minutes is perfectly choreographed. I have yet to see another film that can weave so many intricate action sequences together so fluidly, at least to me. Some have come close but the last act of Temple is in a league of its own. I do agree with a previous poster that seeing Indy go up against the Japanese would have made for a great enemy, though a bloodthirsty cult is certainly different and helps differentiate the film even further from the others.

It's not perfect film but I love it for what it is and there's a certain charm about it that keeps it in solid second place for me after Raiders.


Agreed. I loved the way it was revealed gradually that there was something sinister about the palace, and then you see really how that was a whole front for the Thuggee operations.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:20 AM   #172
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Thumbs up

Though I disagree with his overall sentiment, very little of this critique is actually incorrect. Doom is wonderful, but crazy as a badger's ass! On a broader plain, I find this dude far more engaging, far less arbitrarily nasty and narcissistic than that Plinkett blight...

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Old 05-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #173
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I take issue with the whole premise that the movie needs to adhere to real-world logic in order to be "good." How many of us always consistently adhere to supposedly "correct" rational logic in everything that we do anyway? What does that even mean?

The idea is even more absurd when applied to entertainment media (and action-adventures, no less) which by definition are SUPPOSED to be escapist.

Temple of Doom is brilliant--absurdist fantasy, racist stereotypes, and all. lol


He also falls into the trap of talking about Crystal Skull as though its faults were a result of its plot premise and not sloppy execution.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:09 AM   #174
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Why I like Temple of Doom

I guess I liked Temple of Doom because of the adventure, as well as the fact that I was brought up on the Indiana Jones series, Temple of Doom being the first action movie I saw.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:29 PM   #175
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I think Temple of Doom is great I watched it last night and still love it.
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