The graveyard scene

Did the graveyard scene REALLY recall the cave of TOD for anyone else? It gave me goosebumps and flashed my mind right back to when Indy and Shorty are wandering around in the darkness and things are starting to get creepy...In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Indy tells Mutt, "Don't touch anything", just like he tells Shorty in TOD.

Just something about the way Indy acts makes me feel like being in the tunnel of the graveyard reminded him of the events of Pankot some 22 years earlier also.

Also, I have to say, the Graveyard segment is one of my favorite parts of the entire movie. It feels, for a brief time, just like 1930s Indy. Everything is right, and it actually feels even--It doesn't feel phoned in. It hits all the right notes, and feels like what an older Indiana Jones movie would/should feel like. If the whole movie had had the feel of this part, with a bit more action, it'd have been my second favorite.

I can't say it did that for me. I did feel tension when Shia was prone for that moment if front of blow dart guy until Indy did his blow back trick. But I didn't feel creeped out at all. Again, a suspense failed to materialise. The hidden entrance in ToD was more ominous. From the two dead people to the overabundance of very creepy crawly bugs to the very threatening spike room and then walking through the large mouth-like cave before finally entering the Kali temple it was leagues ahead of CS. If only CS had achieved something like this. In CS when Indy crawls over the big disc thingy and it just cantilevers under his weight, I just didn't get it. It was not threatening or difficult. They might as well just had a door. A few CG scorpions running over Shia?! Something like a very large centipede would have been better, a whole heap of them actually. I could go on and on but I won't. ToD was leagues ahead of CS.

The scene was wasted, as with quite a few elements in KOTCS. Great set, but poor execution of action. The skull-masked guards were lame and ineffective. Some tougher form of opponent would have given Indy the opportunity to use his gun.

I thought the entire graveyard and Orellana's tomb scenes were not just some of the best scenes in the movie, but in the entire series. However, I'd have to say that the entire sequence was let down a bit because we didn't get the 'booby trap' that we were quite expecting. In this sense, it's more comparable with TLC's catacombs of Venice scene (where there is only the anticipation of a booby trap) than it is with TOD or the Peruvian temple in Raiders (where we actually get spikes, darts, boulders etc). Personally speaking, I think these scenes in KOTCS would have been improved by a proper booby trap section.... but hey ho.

I watched that part just a few days ago and felt that while the scene was among the few to achieve part of the creepy atmosphere of similar scenes in the OT, there was something lacking. It all looked a bit fake somehow...I was really conscious that it was just a set. The Venice catacombs, the 1936 jungle temple etc. all look more real to me. Also, I agree that the see-saw disc idea seemed a bit weak. CGI bugs too are a bit embarrassing. I guess getting the right shots using real bugs requires a few more takes, but individual GGI creepy crawlies look cheap and fake - the sort of effect one expects in a TV series rather than a mega-bucks blockbuster.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that they *tried* to do a classic Indy creepy scene, but to me it just didn't quite have the magic. (And I won't get started on "Part time" )

BadDates said:

I watched that part just a few days ago and felt that while the scene was among the few to achieve part of the creepy atmosphere of similar scenes in the OT, there was something lacking. It all looked a bit fake somehow...I was really conscious that it was just a set. The Venice catacombs, the 1936 jungle temple etc. all look more real to me. Also, I agree that the see-saw disc idea seemed a bit weak. CGI bugs too are a bit embarrassing. I guess getting the right shots using real bugs requires a few more takes, but individual GGI creepy crawlies look cheap and fake - the sort of effect one expects in a TV series rather than a mega-bucks blockbuster.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that they *tried* to do a classic Indy creepy scene, but to me it just didn't quite have the magic. (And I won't get started on "Part time" )

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I personally thought the sets were outstanding and in some cases superior to the originals. Would have been good to see more location footage though... that always adds to realism.

The sets were good but they needed a booby trap and urgency and suspense and not having Shia tell Indy not to appropriate a knife from the tomb.

Im watching it right now in HD on BBC3 in the UK. I thought the exterior scenes looked really fake, yet the interior was much better and looked great. It's the lack of suspense inside the tomb that kills the whole graveyard scene for me. The guards may as well not of been there either. Plus the anti climax of there being a skull hidden there, with no clear idea of how it got there or why it was put back there IMO.

AndyLGR said:

Im watching it right now in HD on BBC3 in the UK. I thought the exterior scenes looked really fake, yet the interior was much better and looked great. It's the lack of suspense inside the tomb that kills the whole graveyard scene for me. The guards may as well not of been there either. Plus the anti climax of there being a skull hidden there, with no clear idea of how it got there or why it was put back there IMO.

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Yeah, I agree that the interiors were good. I wasn't clear in my previous post; I should have specified that it was only the exteriors that looked fake to me. The weird thing is that I can't quite put my finger on *why* they look fake.

BadDates said:

Yeah, I agree that the interiors were good. I wasn't clear in my previous post; I should have specified that it was only the exteriors that looked fake to me. The weird thing is that I can't quite put my finger on *why* they look fake.

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The interiors were "OK."

I think the lighting really killed the film, especially the graveyard.

Deckard had his suspicions and sad to say I think he was right.

deckard24 said:

...I couldn't help but notice all of Kaminski's work with Spielberg has a grayed down bluish tinge to it. I'm assuming this is some kind of filter he uses, but the warm color saturation of the original 3 Indy movies is nowhere to be found in Spielberg's new movies. War of the Worlds, Munich, Saving Private Ryan, and Minority Report all had this look, which to me felt like the life had been drained out of the picture.

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Kaminski said:

?This is totally a traditional movie, and it was fantastic for me [as cinematographer] to follow Douglas' footprints ... I tried to follow the blueprint ...at the same time, this movie takes place in 1957, a time with more advanced technology and a different [global conflict]. So, to some degree, I had to invent my own representation of Slocombe's [template] ? warmer and high key.?

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I think he failed in that respect...to make it warm at all, and I think the graveyard scene is betrayed by the lighting.

Dennis Miller is my go to guy:

?Not going to use those curly cue light bulbs in my house? I haven?t worked my entire adult life to have my living room lit like a fight scene in an Eastern Bloc stairwell in the Bourne Ultimatum.?

AndyLGR said:

Im watching it right now in HD on BBC3 in the UK. I thought the exterior scenes looked really fake, yet the interior was much better and looked great. It's the lack of suspense inside the tomb that kills the whole graveyard scene for me. The guards may as well not of been there either. Plus the anti climax of there being a skull hidden there, with no clear idea of how it got there or why it was put back there IMO.

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I'd have to say that I think the interior scenes build the suspense pretty well. I think there is certainly the same level of suspense/anticipation in that particular scene than there was in, for example, the catacombs scene in TLC (which I think is the most comparable). What the Orellana's tomb scene lacks is the 'bang' at the end... be that a booby trap or the original storyboarded floor collapse. However, I don't think the exclusion of a 'bang' undermines the scene per se, it just doesn't make it as entertaining as it could have been.

On a side note - I'm assuming you know how the skull got into the tomb now?

Darth Vile said:

I'd have to say that I think the interior scenes build the suspense pretty well. I think there is certainly the same level of suspense/anticipation in that particular scene than there was in, for example, the catacombs scene in TLC (which I think is the most comparable). What the Orellana's tomb scene lacks is the 'bang' at the end... be that a booby trap or the original storyboarded floor collapse. However, I don't think the exclusion of a 'bang' undermines the scene per se, it just doesn't make it as entertaining as it could have been.

On a side note - I'm assuming you know how the skull got into the tomb now?

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It was missing the "bang" you speak of in terms of booby traps (and it seemed somewhat short--abbreviated), however, I also think that it needed an action scene--maybe a gunfight. Something a bit stronger than the short 'fight' with the graveyard warriors.

Since the film was going to venture into Sci Fi anyway, why not have the graveyard warriors actually be UNDEAD? The riddle describes the Skull as being "guarded by the living dead." How cool would it have been for the Skull to have so much power that it can even restore life to the dead, or control the mind so intensely that it can keep a mind continuing after physical death? Imagine the graveyard scene with zombies--Reanimated corpses of the graveyard warriors, along with Orelleana and other more modern graverobbers; Their clothes torn, their hair dirty. They wouldn't be too gruesome, but creepy.

Don't think Romero or Dawn of the Dead Zombies. Instead, think of the Zombies from an EC Comic strip or the B-17 segment of the film Heavy Metal), with the fight ended perhaps by Indy using the power of the Skull to subdue them somehow.

If done right, it could've added to the Skull's mystique and made it a VERY creepy and menacing artifact. Think of the element in the City of Gods script in which the Skull affects the animals around it. That sort of eerie power over beings. Could add a "Ring" (Sauron's ring) like quality to it in that respect. A powerful force all on it's own. A creepy artifact unlike any other. The power of the Skull and the psychic powers it had was underplayed anyway.

Or a gunfight with living graveyard guardians. Think the Bar gunfight from Raiders but a little more intense. Mutt really gets to see that Indy isn't just some boring old professor as he watches Indy gun down a few warriors. Perhaps having Mutt act in the same role in this battle that Marion did in the Raiders barfight--sort of a poetic thing, and establishing Mutt as being like both of his parents despite his seeming foppishness.

Ah, the graveyard scene. Where our once-heroic Indiana Jones commits felony murder.

Lance Quazar said:

Ah, the graveyard scene. Where our once-heroic Indiana Jones commits felony murder.

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Oh no! Poor defenseless grave warrior killed with the same dart blower he was going to kill with.

Give me a break murder is murder and Indy murdered many people in the series.

Dr.Sartorius said:

Oh no! Poor defenseless grave warrior killed with the same dart blower he was going to kill with.

Give me a break murder is murder and Indy murdered many people in the series.

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I'm not sure that was LQ's point...

One of the movie's highlights...at night. Perhaps a pedantic observation, but I wish they hadn't emerged to be captured at dawn. Ruined the atmosphere.

Darth Vile said:

I'm not sure that was LQ's point...

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What was his point then?

The Man said:

One of the movie's highlights...at night. Perhaps a pedantic observation, but I wish they hadn't emerged to be captured at dawn. Ruined the atmosphere.

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I know what you mean. Seems like they were down there for a lot longer than it appeared on screen - perhaps a consequence of scrubbing the floor collapse scene???

Dr.Sartorius said:

What was his point then?

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Don't want to speak for LQ, but I thought it was just a bit of humorous sarcasm.

Darth Vile said:

I know what you mean. Seems like they were down there for a lot longer than it appeared on screen - perhaps a consequence of scrubbing the floor collapse scene???

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Probably. Although there's also the strange timeframe of the opening sequence, in terms of dusk, night, and daylight.