The Politics of Crystal Skull

Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Montana Smith said:
And what was left unwritten?
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A fine thread you've uncovered...unfortunately no one who likes this film has enough electrical current running through their grey matter to make sense of the vomitous mess.

Like poor Moe's "fact" thread, its degenerated into anything but!

(y)

Just put on your Phantom Menace Bib™ and Uncle George will spoon feed you Indy Puree...num num!

Maybe hate is the only thing left for Kingdom of the Phantom Skull...
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Just put on your Phantom Menace Bib? and Uncle George will spoon feed you Indy Puree...num num!
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And if you're very good, he'll ram it down your throat in glorious 3-D.

Rocket Surgeon said:
Maybe hate is the only thing left for Kingdom of the Phantom Skull...
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It would be so simple to consign KOTCS to the hate column. Yet, the Beards accidentally got a few things right. Something about Chimpanzees and the works of Shakespeare comes to mind.
 
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Darth Vile

New member
This is fast becoming a joyless thread. Shame because I thought the topic would facilitate some interesting discussion other than the usual "KOTCS is sh*t" and "Lucas raped my childhood" type stuff...

Can someone point me to a topic re. Indy movies that doesn't quickly degenerate into backlash aginst KOTCS and the moviemakers... or should I start following The Avengers or something? :(
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Darth Vile said:
This is fast becoming a joyless thread. Shame because I thought the topic would facilitate some interesting discussion other than the usual "KOTCS is sh*t" and "Lucas raped my childhood" type stuff...

Can someone point me to a topic re. Indy movies that doesn't quickly degenerate into backlash aginst KOTCS and the moviemakers... or should I start following The Avengers or something? :(
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Its not for a lack of trying, but these are the miscreants who loiter here...

I'm pushing the idea that politics were too intrinsic to Skull, that words defined the characters and not their actions.

We're left to believe what Spalko says because we don't see any real brutality or menace.

It was like a two hour set up that delivered nothing.

Plinket's point about unessesary commentary on greed being synonymous with capitalism just blurs lines and brings everything to the center.
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Its not for a lack of trying, but these are the miscreants who loiter here...

I'm pushing the idea that politics were too intrinsic to Skull, that words defined the characters and not their actions.
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It could be said that Indy is also politicized at the end: the words 'Associate Dean' painted on his office door. He's no longer a rogue Professor but an important part of the establishment.

At the end of ROTLA he was an outsider disgusted by the politics of Government. He'd done their dirty work, but was just a cog in the machine with no say - and he should have expected as much. He was a mercenary. A deniable asset, if you will.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Montana Smith said:
It could be said that Indy is also politicized at the end: the words 'Associate Dean' painted on his office door. He's no longer a rogue Professor but an important part of the establishment.
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All "Who" "Where" and "What" no "How" or "Why".
 
kongisking

kongisking

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
I understand your point, it's just I veer between loving the film as a great mindless adventure film, great mindless fun in the vein of The Mummy films (which I highly enjoy), a nice 1950s Indy romp, and hating it because of the glaring flaws and because it had the potential to be so much more, and because it was a mediocre last chance to see Harrison be Indy. A lot of love, a lot of hate.

As you saw from my post, I'm not one of those who feels that Indy should be confined to the 1930s or should only deal with traditionally religious artifacts. I'm utterly fine with aliens. I actually found the Saucermen script better in some ways. It needed a few rewrites yes, but I think it in general had a lot more potential and as I've said in other threads, it represented a fully formed, 100% revolutionary vision. It wasn't a weak compromise. It broke a lot of Indy "laws" and I think laws with a character like Indy, laws are made to be broken. Indy shouldn't be stuck in a rigid framework. He was intended to be an American James Bond basically, and James Bond has had all manners of "adventures." ToD is probably my favorite Indy film and it didn't adhere to ANY Indiana Jones laws. It had unbelievable stunts, no Marshall College, no Marcus or Sallah, no Judeo-Christian relic, no Nazis; It was over the top, experimental, edgy and great. Controversial but IMO great. KOTCS in concept had the potential to be a second ToD--A new, revolutionary, rule breaking Indy film. The way it was handled killed that potential.
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Again, agree with everything you've stated. I too have my depressing "Man, KOTCS could have been sooooooo much cooler, dammit!" days, but they're, thankfully, sporadic. And TOD is my favorite as well, for the very same reasons. I like Indy best when he's breaking the genre's limitations and going for broke.

That's why I don't mind aliens in KOTCS. It was a ballsy move by Lucas, and I admire that kind of courage in a franchise film. Strange, then, that the rest of the film is so, well, trapped in the Indy formula. Which isn't bad, oh no. The formula is tons of fun. But I do wonder, sometimes, if they had really pursued the sci-fi angle, if the film would have been just as ballsy and badass as TOD...hmmm...

But back on topic, I agree that one of KOTCS's flaws was that it didn't go into enough detail with the whole corrupt government subplot. This was a plot department that Darabont's script absolutely kicked ass in.
 
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Raiders90

Well-known member
kongisking said:
Again, agree with everything you've stated. I too have my depressing "Man, KOTCS could have been sooooooo much cooler, dammit!" days, but they're, thankfully, sporadic. And TOD is my favorite as well, for the very same reasons. I like Indy best when he's breaking the genre's limitations and going for broke.

That's why I don't mind aliens in KOTCS. It was a ballsy move by Lucas, and I admire that kind of courage in a franchise film. Strange, then, that the rest of the film is so, well, trapped in the Indy formula. Which isn't bad, oh no. The formula is tons of fun. But I do wonder, sometimes, if they had really pursued the sci-fi angle, if the film would have been just as ballsy and badass as TOD...hmmm...

But back on topic, I agree that one of KOTCS's flaws was that it didn't go into enough detail with the whole corrupt government subplot. This was a plot department that Darabont's script absolutely kicked ass in.
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The thing is, KOTCS as is is basically a by the numbers Indiana Jones film with just aliens tacked on at the end. Really it feels sort of clumsy, sort of weak.

You could go one of two ways: Never see the actual aliens and make them this unseen yet sinister force. You never see God himself in Raiders, but you see his presume power on display, and the Ark is treated all throughout the film as this really creepy supernatural artifact. There's a great aura of mystery and eeriness surrounding it well before it's opened. They could've went that route. I never get any of that sense with the crystal skull--None of that eeriness or mystery.

Or, they could've gone the full monty ala Saucermen and made the aliens a much bigger presence in the film.

The way it is, their appearance is shocking (but not in a good way, it's more like: "...What?") and it just feels tacked on in an otherwise by the numbers Indiana Jones film about Crystal Skulls.
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
Whatever. The point still stands.
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Speaking of "Whatever": Whatever your point is, it certainly has nothing to do with the "The Politics of Crystal Skull".

---
On-topic: I wonder whose idea it was to change the football game duing the motorbike chase into an anti-Communist rally?
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Stoo said:
On-topic: I wonder whose idea it was to change the football game duing the motorbike chase into an anti-Communist rally?
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Was it fully changed from one to the other?

I had the impression the Forest Gump bit was just dropped, that they were both planned.
 
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