Batman Begins

Dr.Sartorius

New member
It looks like Nolan is setting up Two Face to be the main villain for BB 3. I wouldn't mind having him be the only villain in that one. We don't need another Spider-Man 3 where 3 lame super villains take screen time away from the hero.
 

Niteshade007

New member
Well, it's fairly obvious that Two-Face will be in the series. I mean, there's no point in introducing the character everyone knows will become Two-Face if you aren't going to give the audience Two-Face. The Spider-Man fans were upset because apparently some teacher was supposed to be Lizard-Man or something but nothing ever became of him. I don't really follow Spider-Man (or any comic book hero. I just remember the Batman cartoon from when I was little and the movies). But I believe this thread was about which villain you would like to see.

Another villain that I loved from a Batman cartoon was The Phantasm. It would be great, and definitely tie-in with the whole atmosphere that Nolan has created. However, it is unlikely that The Phantasm will appear for several reasons:

-The cartoon had Joker in it. I doubt they'd use Joker again. Although it appears that they are using the Scarecrow again, so who knows?

-Katie Holmes' (now Maggie Gyllenhal's) character. The female lead in Phantasm, Andrea, is too pivotal and important to be changed or suddenly added to the story.

But I would like to see a live-action version of that. I thought it was great, even when I watched it fairly recently. I would also like to see, as mentioned before, Catwoman. I'd hate for her last trip to the big screen be that god-awful Halle Berry movie.

Villains I would like (but will probably never see)
-Catwoman
-Phantasm
-Two-Face (I probably will be seeing him, actually)
-Penguin (but not like Danny DeVito's version...that was scary)
-Mad Hatter would be cool in a smaller role, kind of like the Scarecrow. It may have worked better as a cartoon villain though than as a film villain.
-Talia Al Ghoul. She was hot in the cartoons. So was Poison Ivy, so I wonder if we'll see her again.

I wonder how long the series will go with Nolan directing and Bale starring. I hope that the films will have a longer duration than the last batch of Batman films we got. And hopefully better as well (thinks Batman and Robin...shudders)
 

Katarn07

New member
Baron Brunwald said:
It'll be Harvey Dent/Two-Face

And probably the Joker.

There are supposedly three other classic Bat-rogues in the Dark Knight besides the Joker. My money's on one being Scarecrow, but I think the other two will fulfill some of your wishes. I don't know who they are as I'm avoiding spoilers like the plague. Knowing who they are will supposedly reveal a twist of some sort if you know your Batman mythos.

I'd like Harley Quinn to be in the movie. Whether just for a minor on screen appearance filling in the shoes of Dr. Crane at Arkham or a full fledged villain for the third, I need to see Nolan's take on her. It'll be completely different than the cartoon, but I'm sure he can put an interesting spin on her.
 

TheMutt92

New member
The 'Batman' Effect?

An observation I've noticed over the past year is that n the time since the release of Batman Begins, it appears a number of film's have taken it as an influence. Such prominent examples include recent hits such as Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, and the forthcoming Terminator Salvation.


From Iron Man:

Favreau also described his approach as similar to an independent film, "f Robert Altman had directed Superman", and also cited Batman Begins as an inspiration.


From Hulk:

But Norton had well-established (if underground) writing experience and strong ideas about how to separate the film from any confusion over its connection to the 2003 Ang Lee version by casting it in a more distinct, starting-over vein like "Batman Begins" or "Casino Royale."

From Terminator:

McG said that it will also be about the development of the Model 101 Terminator: scenes involve humans being captured and studied by Skynet in order to perfect their cybernetic organisms, and Connor explaining "If we let these things go online, the war is over." He explained the film will "begin again very much in the spirit of what Nolan did with Batman," in that it will not require audiences to have seen the previous films, and that it is "a bit of a sequel and a prequel because it tells the story of how we got there."

"We have entertained the idea of a PG-13 rating largely because Batman Begins, in my opinion, was made compromise-free. So we'll see. The movie comes first and it will be protected at all times."


So what do you think? Is Begins influence getting old only three years after its release? Or do you think more summer blockbusters will aspire to be like The Dark Knight? Either way you look at, the influence of Nolan's Batman films may be the modern equivalent in terms of influence to Lucas' Star Wars pictures back in the day.
 

DocWhiskey

Well-known member
I don't think it's getting old. Iron Man and Hulk were great comic films. And in all honesty, I didn't see anything similar to Batman Begins in any of those films other than they're based on a comic.

I think it's a big influence because Nolan made a comic book movie that didn't play like a comic book movie. He took a comic character and put him in a modern, realistic, mature world with a mature story and plot. He showed you that you don't need constant CGI, a lot of humor, and a simplified plot to make a great film. You could actually take a comic, like Batman, and respect the source material and end up getting a movie that's actually good. That's the problem with comic book films, sometimes they make needless changes and HAVE to wink at the camera as if to say, "Hey, it's a stupid comic film for kids."

Nolan didn't do that. And in return people(fans and critics alike) love his Batman films. That's why the current Batman and Spider-man films are so loved and successful, because they follow the source material closely. I mean, if Hollywood thought comic books were for kids, than why did they have to dumb down the movies for the average moviegoer?
 

Goonie

New member
I actually think the "influence" started with X-Men where the comic book movies were less campy, but Batman Begins merely perfected it.
 

The Magic Rat

New member
Goonie said:
I actually think the "influence" started with X-Men where the comic book movies were less campy, but Batman Begins merely perfected it.

Eh, X-Men I and III are kinda garbage, but two is a fantastic. I think that was the real launching point for legitimate good movies coming from comics.
 

ProfessorChaos

New member
In my opinion, I think Batman Begins and The Dark Knight *have* re-defined the Superhero movie and proved you can make it true to the comics while still original and different in it's own right. I can't wait for Watchmen, next!

First, these are my thoughts on The Dark Knight, as a whole:
I just watched The Dark Knight on DVD last night. Second time I saw it, first being in the theater. All I can say is: what an awesome movie! Watching it is like the visual equivalent of reading the very best Batman stories like Batman: The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, or Frank Miller's Dark Knight stories. Deep, dark, realistic, and even philosophical at times, this was definitely the way to do the Caped Crusader justice! I liked how, even though it had three classic Batman villains in it (Scarecrow, Joker, and Two-Face), they weren't campy or overdone. They all fit very naturally into the storyline. I really got the impession by the end of the movie that Batman now finally knows who he is and why Gotham needs him, which wasn't yet established in Batman Begins.
My favorite part was how right when the Joker thought the bombs would go off, they didn't... proving his whole philosophy to be wrong, and driving him even more out of his mind than ever. Similar to in The Killing Joke! Classic. :)

Where I think they'll go from here... is they'll bring in the Riddler as the next villain. The Riddler will try to puzzle out who Batman is, and he'll discover how the guy that tried to bribe Fox and Wayne knows Bruce is Batman. That was the biggest plot thread left not tied up at the end of The Dark Knight, so i'd imagine it has to have a part in the next movie. Since The Dark Knight had three major villains, the next movie could bring in Catwoman *besides* the Riddler, since Fox hinted how the Batman armor could withstand cats. Just the way he said it seemed like a subtle hint, to me. The Riddler could easily be played by Johnny Depp, and Angelina Jolie would be good as Catwoman.
With the Joker locked up and Two-Face dead (by the looks of it), you would have one "crazy" villain and one "twisted vigilante" villain. That's what I think!

Second, this is how I see the "Batman" effect, and it's legacy:
I remember it seemed like only *yesterday* they were saying certain stories were not possible to do justice to on film. They said this about The Lord of the Rings until Peter Jackson showed how you *can* do Tolkien's works right.
They said this about Frank Miller's comics until Sin City and 300 proved them wrong. Now, they are saying Watchmen can't be done justice! But what the effect is that these perfectly done movies (including Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) proves, is that you can make a story (be it a novel or a comic) literally come to life as a movie, without in any way comprimising it's integrity or sacrificing any detail of the story. In fact, in Sin City and 300 they were actually shooting *scene for scene* from the comics! So, I suspect that the Watchmen movie will carry the "Batman" effect to the next level. Naturally, you'll always have purists who won't be pleased (like the Tolkien purists who were upset Tom Bombadil wasn't in LotR), but myself... I find all these movies amazing, and as someone who grew up reading the stories and comics, I am deeply impressed at what can be done in movies today. Of course there are limitations, but what I like about these films is how well they overcome them.

Being born in the late 70's, when I was a little boy I had to suffer with the campy Batman of the 60's T.V. Series that was still on the air back then. It was nothing like the comics, but it was the only Batman on film at the time.
However, you couldn't say to your children it was like the comics. It wasn't.
Then came the Batman of the 1980's... Tim Burton's version. Back when it was in the theaters, I was reading Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. I saw Tim Burton's movie as closer to that than any Batman before it, but still far away. It seemed even *farther* away by the time of the horrible George Cloony Batman movie (Batman and Robin), and by then I despaired of ever seeing Batman done as dark and serious as the comics. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were different... they were exactly what the comics were like, and that is the "Batman" effect. When something is true to it's source.
If this can continue, it will be a great legacy to leave future generations who will be able to see movies based on the books and comics their parents and grandparents first read years before, and get the same feeling from the film that we did from the read. It will make them want to go back and read those works themselves, if only to compare, and then they will be the fans we were!
They won't have to suffer with the kind of camp we once had to suffer with, and with any luck they may never have to hear Robin say "Holy" anything. :D
That is the magic of this effect we speak of and why it is also very historic. ;)
 

KneelBeforeZod

New member
Goonie said:
I actually think the "influence" started with X-Men where the comic book movies were less campy, but Batman Begins merely perfected it.

Taking comic book characters seriously didn't start with Singer's X-Men ... it started with Donner's Superman. Superman started it, and it was continued with Superman II (though moreso with the Donner Cut of Superman II, as opposed to Lester's Superman II). Superman III lost it. Superman IV was a travesty. Burton's Batman took the character seriously ... but with Returns, it got lost in the gothic junk. Forever and Batman & Robin were cartoons.

Jump from Batman to Spiderman. The Spiderman series took itself seriously from beginning to end. Spiderman and Spiderman II were fantastic, and created a solid jumping-off point for Batman Begins. Superman Returns tried to recapture it ... but got too lost in homages to Dick Donner. The Dark Knight was a masterpiece.

I'm looking forward to Wolverine and Star Trek ... which seem to have taken what we've learned between Superman and the Dark Knight and applied the lessons to different franchises. I'm also quite enthusiastic about the epic Superman reboot that is being planned. Superman Returns made a reasonably good trilogy out of Superman, Superman II (Donner Cut), and Superman Returns. Now ... wipe the slate clean, and start over.

KBZ
 

TheMutt92

New member
I think I like BB more so than even TDK, I'm not sure why, but I think it had more an effect on me than TDK. In all honesty though, I think I'm gonna have to wait for Batman 3 to be released before I can appropriately rank these films.

(I also think BB has the better score, but like I said its debatable and I won't be able to tell till Batman 3)

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YouNeverKnow

New member
Batman Begins is a better "Batman" movie for my dollar. Not that I didn't like TDK, because I think it is awesome. But the hardcore ninja training, the recurrent lines of dialogue, and even the look of Gotham in this movie is far superior to TDK. I don't particularly enjoy the blue-ness of that movie, if it makes any sense, or the blatant stand-in of Chicago for the city. Gotham in BB was grittier, in particular the claustrophobic look of the Narrows. I liked the stuff about the fear toxin because that was very much rooted in Batman's world, and actually featuring Ra's al Ghul the way they did was inspired. So far, it is my personal benchmark by which I judge all other superhero origin movies.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
YouNeverKnow said:
Batman Begins is a better "Batman" movie for my dollar. Not that I didn't like TDK, because I think it is awesome. But the hardcore ninja training, the recurrent lines of dialogue, and even the look of Gotham in this movie is far superior to TDK. I don't particularly enjoy the blue-ness of that movie, if it makes any sense, or the blatant stand-in of Chicago for the city. Gotham in BB was grittier, in particular the claustrophobic look of the Narrows. I liked the stuff about the fear toxin because that was very much rooted in Batman's world, and actually featuring Ra's al Ghul the way they did was inspired. So far, it is my personal benchmark by which I judge all other superhero origin movies.

I'm in the same boat with Nolan's Batman as I am with all four Indy movies. I like the worlds they create and find it hard singling out a best, as to me they're continuations of one man's story.

I loved Batman Begins, as it was finally a Batman origin story that surpassed Tim Burton's, and came much closer to my own imagination of how things could be.

Batman Begins was like an essay on "how to become a super hero". How does a normal human, backed by immense wealth, gain the mystery and power becoming of a super hero? Batman has always been one of the most real super heros (my favourite from the DC universe), and this film really expressed te trials and tribulations well. The Dark Knight continued that theme. I'm hoping that a future outing will introduce Bane, and the breaking of Batman's back - proof that Batman is one of the most precarious and interesting of heroes.
 

kongisking

Active member
Both films were incredible. Unparalleled works of greatness. Long live Christopher Nolan. I can't wait for Inception.
 

TheMutt92

New member
YouNeverKnow said:
Batman Begins is a better "Batman" movie for my dollar. Not that I didn't like TDK, because I think it is awesome. But the hardcore ninja training, the recurrent lines of dialogue, and even the look of Gotham in this movie is far superior to TDK. I don't particularly enjoy the blue-ness of that movie, if it makes any sense, or the blatant stand-in of Chicago for the city. Gotham in BB was grittier, in particular the claustrophobic look of the Narrows. I liked the stuff about the fear toxin because that was very much rooted in Batman's world, and actually featuring Ra's al Ghul the way they did was inspired. So far, it is my personal benchmark by which I judge all other superhero origin movies.

I think you hit it on the nail. BB and TDK are so different its hard to compare, in fact Nolan intended to create different atmospheres between the two films (the inspiration behind BB was Blade Runner, while TDK was Heat, two VERY different films). So if Nolan decides to make Batman 3 in a way different from both BB and TDK, I'll be all for it (kinda like how art designs change between different comics). But personally, I'd like to see him go back to look of BB. It just seemed like Gotham was too cleaned up in TDK for my liking, but I don't know if its because we're in a different section of the city or if the people miraculously were able to clean all that muck up in just a year.
 

YouNeverKnow

New member
TheMutt92 said:
I think you hit it on the nail. BB and TDK are so different its hard to compare, in fact Nolan intended to create different atmospheres between the two films (the inspiration behind BB was Blade Runner, while TDK was Heat, two VERY different films). So if Nolan decides to make Batman 3 in a way different from both BB and TDK, I'll be all for it (kinda like how art designs change between different comics). But personally, I'd like to see him go back to look of BB. It just seemed like Gotham was too cleaned up in TDK for my liking, but I don't know if its because we're in a different section of the city or if the people miraculously were able to clean all that muck up in just a year.

Maybe the "cleaner" city was supposed to be representative of the work Gordon and Batman had been doing. Never thought about that.
 
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