As has been stated in the above film studies approach, we've discovered that more folks liked the film than was generally known. The problem with complainers (regardless of their minority numbers) is that they have a much louder voice and drown out those that are quietly content. KotCS actually got much better reviews than TOD. KotCS had over-the-top stunts and CG, but what else could we expect? The filmmakers were trying to just keep up with the fast pace and epic scope that has become a hallmark of these films. We live in the age of computers, so it should have been no surprise to anyone that the new film would be loaded with CG. I thought the stunts in the Area-51 sequence were some of the most pinpoint, perfect stunts ever and were aided in no way by CG. Some people weren't ready for aliens (or inter-dimensional beings as it were). However, with the new discoveries and recent popular debate of the ancient aliens theory, I think Indy was a perfect vessel to explore such ideas. Also, and most importantly, KotCS brought the series full-circle. The film climax is in Peru, where the first film began. "This is intolerable" was uttered by Indy to Mutt- the same line used by Indy's own disapproving father. And of course we all recognized an all-too-familiar scornful look from father-to-son on yet another speeding bike. If no other Indy film gets made, I personally feel this was an appropriate swan-song. The mistakes are simply too superficial to discount this film and I for one was delighted to see my favorite childhood hero once more.
There is a lot of hate for KOTCS at the Raven but I found the movie to be highly entertaining flaws and all. Its far from the perfect Indy film but it is also far from being terrible as well. I liked it the first time.I saw it and still enjoy it today. And as wingnut said it was great to have a childhood hero back on screen regardless of the imperfections.
Indiana Jones made many of us fans of archeology and, by extension, history in general, so I wanted to bring up a few details about the 1950s that might help to illuminate the reasons for using aliens as a theme in KotCS. There had been a widespread rash of UFO sightings in the 40s and 50s in the American homefront that some feared were the products of communist spying while others feared were, in fact, little green men. And if you didn't fear the communists, then you had darn, good reason to fear our own government. This fear both hightened the threat of the Cold War and also started a B-movie craze. The B-movies of the day focused on atomic-made monsters and alien attacks and worked well to curb the fear of the Cold War by poking some fun at it. While Spielberg was hesitant to use aliens as a focus in KotCS, he admitted that once he gave in, the mysterious elements in the story became very interesting to him. The filmmakers- Spielberg, Lucas, and the Marshals- as well as Ford himself had lived through the atomic age and would have very personal connections to this film- probably more so than any other previous Indy film. KotCS was purposely not as serious as Raiders or TOD, it instead harkened back to the fun of Last Crusade, which most of the filmmakers remembered as their favorite on-set experience of the original trilogy. This film was made for the sheer pleasure of rejoining the original stars and filmmakers for another fun adventure that they hoped the fans would enjoy. Obviously, some fans weren't happy, but by-and-large I've heard far more compliments for the film than the contrary. Perhaps KotCS doesn't work for some folks because our generation has been fortunate enough not to know the fear of the Cold War as the German Wall fell decades ago and Russia has since turned to democracy. Any thoughts?
Indiana Jones made many of us fans of archeology and, by extension, history in general, so I wanted to bring up a few details about the 1950s that might help to illuminate the reasons for using aliens as a theme in KotCS. There had been a widespread rash of UFO sightings in the 40s and 50s in the American homefront that some feared were the products of communist spying while others feared were, in fact, little green men. And if you didn't fear the communists, then you had darn, good reason to fear our own government. This fear both hightened the threat of the Cold War and also started a B-movie craze. The B-movies of the day focused on atomic-made monsters and alien attacks and worked well to curb the fear of the Cold War by poking some fun at it. While Spielberg was hesitant to use aliens as a focus in KotCS, he admitted that once he gave in, the mysterious elements in the story became very interesting to him. The filmmakers- Spielberg, Lucas, and the Marshals- as well as Ford himself had lived through the atomic age and would have very personal connections to this film- probably more so than any other previous Indy film. KotCS was purposely not as serious as Raiders or TOD, it instead harkened back to the fun of Last Crusade, which most of the filmmakers remembered as their favorite on-set experience of the original trilogy. This film was made for the sheer pleasure of rejoining the original stars and filmmakers for another fun adventure that they hoped the fans would enjoy. Obviously, some fans weren't happy, but by-and-large I've heard far more compliments for the film than the contrary. Perhaps KotCS doesn't work for some folks because our generation has been fortunate enough not to know the fear of the Cold War as the German Wall fell decades ago and Russia has since turned to democracy. Any thoughts?
My neighbor grew up in the 50's and she loves the film because it reminds her of her childhood. HF, SS and GL are in the same age bracket so your summation of the situation is probably pretty accurate. As far as it's success I do believe the name Indiana Jones alone sold a lot of tickets but I do feel (while I do enjoy it very much) that if it had not been a sequel (It's own thing) it probably wouldn't have done as well as it did. I think HF's age would have not been as believable if we had not gotten to know Indy 31 years ago. But the character is established already and for me HF still works as Indy because he is supposed to be this ultra lucky bad a** who always manages to escape no matter what. My only major gripe with the film is the action in the truck sequence looks CGI and is very poorly conceived. The monkey swing irks me every time I see it But otherwise it is a fun adventure. But once again I will state if it had not followed Raiders and Temple I probably wouldn't have paid it much mind along with other folks and it's success would have been probably pretty minimal.
I agree that if it hadn't been a sequel, then it wouldn't have had as much success. The name Indiana Jones carries a lot of clout. I also agree with you about the truck chase being sub-par CG. Next to the ending, this sequence receives the most widespread gripe. It is odd to me that ILM has always been on the cutting edge of film technology, responsible for spectacles like Titanic and Avatar, but somehow they seemed to put less effort into a film by their own boss, George Lucas. It could be, as you pointed out, that as long as the Indy logo was on it, then maybe they felt they didn't have to try as hard. But, knowing how George Lucas loves to change things in his films, I wouldn't be surprised if he cleans it up a bit for a re-release. If that were the case, then this could be the one time that fans wouldn't want to lynch Lucas for tinkering with his films.
I agree that if it hadn't been a sequel, then it wouldn't have had as much success. The name Indiana Jones carries a lot of clout. I also agree with you about the truck chase being sub-par CG. Next to the ending, this sequence receives the most widespread gripe. It is odd to me that ILM has always been on the cutting edge of film technology, responsible for spectacles like Titanic and Avatar, but somehow they seemed to put less effort into a film by their own boss, George Lucas. It could be, as you pointed out, that as long as the Indy logo was on it, then maybe they felt they didn't have to try as hard. But, knowing how George Lucas loves to change things in his films, I wouldn't be surprised if he cleans it up a bit for a re-release. If that were the case, then this could be the one time that fans wouldn't want to lynch Lucas for tinkering with his films.
I'm sure he has to go through Steven before he can do that and Spielberg is not a fan of changing his films.
As has been stated in the above film studies approach, we've discovered that more folks liked the film than was generally known. The problem with complainers (regardless of their minority numbers) is that they have a much louder voice and drown out those that are quietly content. KotCS actually got much better reviews than TOD.
The internet hate started around...I don't know? July-Octoberish, and it really kicked in once South Park came about.
Nowadays, it's died a hell of alot on the net. Just go on YouTube, every Indy IV video back in December of 2008 usually had the top comment bashing the film and nowadays, you have the top comment saying how awesome it was or how the hate is odd and unwarranted. It's turned around alot on the net, thankfully. Even if I hated the film, I wouldn't want anything Indy to be seen in a bad light, hence why it bugged me how TOD used to get so much flack.
Even looking at IGN's article (or other sites') today on the BluRay Indy films, the top comments and a majority of the regular comments are talking about how the Indy IV hate is ridiculous/confusing and that the film was great. It's good to see it's turned around alot. The internet is a brutal place sometimes, and that's where the discontent with the film mostly was voiced. Like you said, the "haters" (I hate that term, but I'm unsure what else to use) eventually began to speak louder than those who liked/loved it around late 2008ish/early 2009ish.
There's nothing wrong with being discontent with any film, whether it be TOD or KOTCS, however...what always frustrates me is the fact that people have to be antagonistic and obsess about disliking something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry W Jones
The monkey swing irks me every time I see it
As it does me. It's absolutely atrocious. I was over at a friends house and their family was watching this film in the other room, and nobody flinched during that scene. They didn't gripe or cringe. I grimaced on the inside, though. It seems moviegoers simply didn't see it as horrid as we do. I don't know, I find it to be horrid and cringe-worthy to the highest degree! Embarrassingly atrocious piece of celluloid, I don't care if it was only 3 seconds long.
Last edited by Dr.Jonesy : 06-14-2012 at 04:08 PM.
No, you shouldn't (unless your goal is to be a lethargic waste of flesh).
Well, I have a few that I spent money on that I'd like to not have it been a waste of money so I feel I should finish them, if that makes sense.
It's not like I don't enjoy playing games, I just feel guilty if I do play them because I keep thinking "I could be reading/learning something or doing my notes..." and I feel like I'm wasting valuable time. I have a hard time letting myself have fun, it seems.
But yeah, I never wanted to be one of those couch potato gamers!
The success of KOTCS in breathing new life into the character ought by now to have earned Indy an open-world game.
I wasn't here until after KOTCS came out, so that film must have done something in bringing Indy back to the popular mass consciousness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Maybe 'inside' but what really keeps a person YOUNG is going OUTSIDE!
But OUTSIDE is full of nasty people. And the yellow eye in the sky... it burns usss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
No, you shouldn't (unless your goal is to be a lethargic waste of flesh).
I run three miles every morning, preferably long before dawn, and rarely eat junk food. I can go for months without playing a game, but suddenly something will inspire me to go back.
The desire to explore and kill from the safety of one's home being another reason why an Indy open-world game would be perfect.
The key to playing games, or for that matter to surfing the internet, is not to sit down. If you get too comfortable and too engrossed you get fat!
The success of KOTCS in breathing new life into the character ought by now to have earned Indy an open-world game.
I don't think Indy fits the open world thing. People want to apply the open world game design to every character and for some games, it just doesn't work. Kind of like how every studio saw how big Chris Nolan's Batman films are and since they're dark, the studio is going to make all their superheroes dark too.
Like Batman's darkness and GTA's open world; it doesn't work with everything.
I don't think Indy fits the open world thing. People want to apply the open world game design to every character and for some games, it just doesn't work. Kind of like how every studio saw how big Chris Nolan's Batman films are and since they're dark, the studio is going to make all their superheroes dark too.
Like Batman's darkness and GTA's open world; it doesn't work with everything.
Of course, these games only create an illusion of an open-world. You very quickly come up against barriers or inconsistencies. But the option to go anywhere on a map, to choose your modus operandi, your attitude to the world and its inhabitants, and the knock-on effects is something I thought would suit Indy's ambiguous character:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
The more sandbox games I play, the less obstacles I see in the way of an Indy sandbox.
Multiple missions or objectives can be undertaken simultaneously with the main quest to locate an artifact. Indy has been a spy, and he has combat experience, so there aren't any barriers to his obtaining information by sneaking into secure locations, or going head-to-head with an opposing force.
Choosing the route of egotistical fortune and glory, or that of altruism would affect karma, and therefore the reactions he receives in the world from those of differing karma. Since Indy generally finds a balance, the game would become more difficult (or very different) if you attempted it with excessive and unprovoked violence, or conversely, without trying to kill anyone or breaking local laws.
Listening to IndyCast28/29, it brought me right back to May/June of 2008. Alot of glowing reviews in those IndyCasts. I miss 2008 and the exciting time to be an Indy fan!
A good film...
A movie for the 50s...
But otherwise it is a fun adventure. But once again I will state if it had not followed Raiders and Temple I probably wouldn't have paid it much mind along with other folks and it's success would have been probably pretty minimal.
