ClintonHammond
Guest
That's certainly no pattern that indicates that there is any sort of 'creator' being
There might be similarities, but that's all they are
There might be similarities, but that's all they are
The Tomb of Sir Richard
- Thread starter Doc Savage
- Start date
Doc Savage
New member
"There are none so blind as those that refuse to see..."ClintonHammond said:
ClintonHammond
Guest
You'd know, wouldn't you...
Doc Savage
New member
LOLFinn said:
Which thumb would we use?
Doc: I'll use my right thumb...
CH: Which one's right?
Doc: The one that's not my left.
CH: Who do you let define left and right?
Doc: It's commonly accepted that the left is diametrically opposed to the right.
CH: Got any sources for that?
Doc: Yes...I even Googled it, you heathen.
CH: Silly Christian
Doc: Pagan Canadian
CH: Religious bigot
Doc: Am not!
CH: Are too!
Doc: AM not!
CH: Are too!
Doc Savage said:
Mine was created opposable, you just have to live with what grew there, lol!
Great stuff.
Doc Savage
New member
And on THAT note, the fact that a tail would become vestigial is ludicrous. Try carrying five bags of groceries, a three-year-old and a two-month-old to the door, scrambling for your keys, dropping the groceries (hopefully, not the kids), only THEN to have your wife open the door and say, "Why didn't you just knock?"Pale Horse said:
I can think of a thousand uses for a prehensile tail. Vestigial, my right eye...
ClintonHammond
Guest
Exactly what I figured this would degenerate into....
No surprise
No surprise
ClintonHammond
Guest
Let's try this....
The Open Mind.
A mind open to new ideas, lacking in prejudice, not dogmatic.
John Jackson © 2004.
It is very common for people who are putting forward a claim to say something like, "you must consider this with an open mind", or if their claim is rejected they will say something like, "well of course you don't believe it, you're closed-minded".
There are many ways that this 'appeal to open mindedness' manifests itself, so let's have a look at why it is not usually a valid argument:
What is an open-minded person?
An open-minded person is someone who is willing to consider ideas, opinions and arguments purely on their merit. If an idea can be shown to be correct then an open-minded person will alter, or add to, their world-view with this new-found knowledge. If the new idea does not stand up to scrutiny however, it will be rejected.
Having an open-mind does not mean embracing all kinds of weird ideas and uncritically accepting them no matter how bizarre or unsupported by evidence they are. The actual word used to describe a person who will believe in absolutely anything is: credulous.
Why do skeptics often get accused of not having open-minds?
1. The accusers don't understand what open-mindedness is.
They confuse open-mindedness with being credulous. They simply don't understand the difference between the two.
If others do not 'open-mindedly' share their beliefs or accept their argument as valid, they accuse them of being 'closed-minded'. This is simply a fallacious Ad Hominem argument.
2. Those accusers don't realise what skepticism is.
Skeptics have to be open-minded. They test and examine claims in a scientific, objective way. To do this they have to be open-minded; this is the reason that skeptics are prepared to consider claims that may seem completely ridiculous to most people.
Skepticism is not about rejecting ideas: it's about testing them for validity.
3. Those accusers don't realise that open-minded people can reject claims.
Being open-minded about something is a willingness to consider that it may be true: it also means considering the possibility that it may be false. A truly open-minded person's mind is open to both possibilities.
Disagreeing with a person's position or argument after considering it does not make one closed-minded.
Misuse of the term "open-minded".
It is the misuse of the term open-minded that the credulous hide behind. They use it as a shield against the use of critical thinking and logical analysis of their ideas, claims, and often bizarre beliefs.
The "I'm open-minded" claim is used to counter the lack of evidence, or the quality of evidence supporting a claim.
The appeal to open-mindedness is really an appeal to relinquish one's rational integrity. It does not matter how or why something may appear to be true, that there is no credible evidence to support it, or even that it is demonstrably false; it should simply be accepted with an 'open-mind'. In other words, with non-thinking credulity.
Conclusion.
Open-mindedness is considered a virtue, and true open-mindedness is.
The term is frequently misused by people who wish to sound virtuous, and simultaneously make their opponent sound intolerant, while defending or promoting their ideas and beliefs.
This appeal to be 'open-minded' is a fallacious one. Its message is simply: be credulous.
The Open Mind.
A mind open to new ideas, lacking in prejudice, not dogmatic.
John Jackson © 2004.
It is very common for people who are putting forward a claim to say something like, "you must consider this with an open mind", or if their claim is rejected they will say something like, "well of course you don't believe it, you're closed-minded".
There are many ways that this 'appeal to open mindedness' manifests itself, so let's have a look at why it is not usually a valid argument:
What is an open-minded person?
An open-minded person is someone who is willing to consider ideas, opinions and arguments purely on their merit. If an idea can be shown to be correct then an open-minded person will alter, or add to, their world-view with this new-found knowledge. If the new idea does not stand up to scrutiny however, it will be rejected.
Having an open-mind does not mean embracing all kinds of weird ideas and uncritically accepting them no matter how bizarre or unsupported by evidence they are. The actual word used to describe a person who will believe in absolutely anything is: credulous.
Why do skeptics often get accused of not having open-minds?
1. The accusers don't understand what open-mindedness is.
They confuse open-mindedness with being credulous. They simply don't understand the difference between the two.
If others do not 'open-mindedly' share their beliefs or accept their argument as valid, they accuse them of being 'closed-minded'. This is simply a fallacious Ad Hominem argument.
2. Those accusers don't realise what skepticism is.
Skeptics have to be open-minded. They test and examine claims in a scientific, objective way. To do this they have to be open-minded; this is the reason that skeptics are prepared to consider claims that may seem completely ridiculous to most people.
Skepticism is not about rejecting ideas: it's about testing them for validity.
3. Those accusers don't realise that open-minded people can reject claims.
Being open-minded about something is a willingness to consider that it may be true: it also means considering the possibility that it may be false. A truly open-minded person's mind is open to both possibilities.
Disagreeing with a person's position or argument after considering it does not make one closed-minded.
Misuse of the term "open-minded".
It is the misuse of the term open-minded that the credulous hide behind. They use it as a shield against the use of critical thinking and logical analysis of their ideas, claims, and often bizarre beliefs.
The "I'm open-minded" claim is used to counter the lack of evidence, or the quality of evidence supporting a claim.
The appeal to open-mindedness is really an appeal to relinquish one's rational integrity. It does not matter how or why something may appear to be true, that there is no credible evidence to support it, or even that it is demonstrably false; it should simply be accepted with an 'open-mind'. In other words, with non-thinking credulity.
Conclusion.
Open-mindedness is considered a virtue, and true open-mindedness is.
The term is frequently misused by people who wish to sound virtuous, and simultaneously make their opponent sound intolerant, while defending or promoting their ideas and beliefs.
This appeal to be 'open-minded' is a fallacious one. Its message is simply: be credulous.
ClintonHammond
Guest
Everything we 'know', right now MIGHT be wrong.... It'd take a hell of a discovery to exhibit that, but it's possible, sure.
One could say I suppose that ALL things are possible.... But all the things that might be possible are not equally likely are they? Jupiter is NOT likely to be made of green cheese, unless we REALLY misunderstand the nature of green cheese....
Is it 'possible' that the universe was created by some 'supreme being'? Sure, it's possible... Current evidence says that Jupiter is way more likely to be made of green cheese though.
One could say I suppose that ALL things are possible.... But all the things that might be possible are not equally likely are they? Jupiter is NOT likely to be made of green cheese, unless we REALLY misunderstand the nature of green cheese....
Is it 'possible' that the universe was created by some 'supreme being'? Sure, it's possible... Current evidence says that Jupiter is way more likely to be made of green cheese though.
ClintonHammond
Guest
-I- don't need the 'other side' to admit it... Their delusions have very little bearing on my life.
I know a guy who calls himself a "Radical Agnostic" and he defines it by saying "I don't know, and neither do you!" That sort of attitude is close to how I approach the 'other side'.
I know a guy who calls himself a "Radical Agnostic" and he defines it by saying "I don't know, and neither do you!" That sort of attitude is close to how I approach the 'other side'.
HovitosKing
Well-known member
ClintonHammond said:
Isn't that a perfect example of the closed-mindedness you're saying the "other side" tends to display? You won't go far in life dismissing everyone who falls opposite your own beliefs as "delusional." I'm seeing an ugly trend in your posts...
ClintonHammond
Guest
"Isn't that a perfect example of the closed-mindedness"
Asked and answered 6 posts ago.... Try to keep up with the rest of the class eh
Or is ad hominem all you have still?
Asked and answered 6 posts ago.... Try to keep up with the rest of the class eh
Or is ad hominem all you have still?
Doc Savage
New member
I believe the first attacks of the nomenclature of 'close-minded' came from you.ClintonHammond said:
Again, pots and kettles...even if your ad hominem attacks are directed stereotypically toward a group rather than an individual.ClintonHammond said:
ClintonHammond
Guest
Again, asked and answered 8 posts ago Doc.... I called you closed minded, because you are close-minded. -I- have looked at what little 'evidence' you have tried to post, and checked its sources and dismissed it. You one the other hand have done nothing of the sort.
Hence the epithet, close-minded.
As I said before, if the shoe fits....
Hence the epithet, close-minded.
As I said before, if the shoe fits....
Doc Savage
New member
And, as I've said before, said shoe doesn't fit. You haven't dismissed anything other than in your own mind. The sources I cited are as lettered as anything you've pulled out of your hat. If you want to be an evolutionary lemming, by all means go ahead.
And yet again, you've ignored the evolutionary atrocities...
And yet again, you've ignored the evolutionary atrocities...
ClintonHammond
Guest
"The sources I cited are...."
As 'woo' as the people who try to claim we never landed on the moon.
But if that's a delusion you want to follow, you're welcome to it.
As 'woo' as the people who try to claim we never landed on the moon.
But if that's a delusion you want to follow, you're welcome to it.