Of Crystal Skulls

Professor Jones

New member
chapter11 said:
How very Judeo-Christian of you!

I've registered this forum to have a quiet and friendly conversation. I'm quite a calm guy and I must say it's the second time I've been personally attacked on this topic. Those tones are quite disappointing and I find them not proper to a gentlemen's conversation. I accept disagreement and misunderstanding because of my poor acquaintance with english, but I cannot accept such a tone. Please consider that I'm writing that in a very soft way, just as a friend would do and not with anger. Just a consideration.

I must thank NoTicket for having perfectly interpretated my thoughts: that means they were not so obscure.
 

chapter11

Well-known member
Professor Jones said:
I've registered this forum to have a quiet and friendly conversation. I'm quite a calm guy and I must say it's the second time I've been personally attacked on this topic. Those tones are quite disappointing and I find them not proper to a gentlemen's conversation. I accept disagreement and misunderstanding because of my poor acquaintance with english, but I cannot accept such a tone. Please consider that I'm writing that in a very soft way, just as a friend would do and not with anger. Just a consideration.

I really didn't mean to offend you. I simply wanted to point out that it's very Christian-centric, in my opinion, to imply that only Judeo-Christian artifacts can have the proper symbolic power to be worthy of Indy's pursuit. I disagree with the assertion. I did not mean to insult you, and I'm sorry if you feel you were being personally attacked.

I think he means, like what I meant when I said they didn't sound very interesting... is that they are not widely known of in history like the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail.

When I saw Raiders as a kid I'd never heard of the Ark of the Covenant! Still loved the movie. ;)
 

Johnny Nys

Member
Exactly! Suppose the Indy movies hadn't been made. Would the same number of people have the same amount of information about either the ark or the grail? Or Atlantis for that matter? I don't think I would. The grail perhaps from playing other games like "Gabriel Knight 3" and because of Dan Brown, Atlantis maybe through the Disney movie (even though I never saw it), but otherwise I'm sure I'd still be ignorant of them all.

I'm only 28, so I wasn't consciously around before the movies came out. I saw them at a later age, but I can tell you I never heard of any one of those objects before. Generally speaking, did people in those days before the movies actually know about those objects?

Suppose not. Then isn't it possible this new Indy movie will introduce us to another one and make us aware of it?

Think about it. Suppose they choose an object or place that's already widely known. I'm thinking of clichés like the ark of Noah, Excalibur, El Dorado, and such. Whatever spin they give it will clash with the view each person already has on it.

So I'm for some obscure object still tied to a major religion. It doesn't have to be popular already; let the new movie make it popular, by showing its significance, what it can do.
 

No Ticket

New member
Johnny Nys said:
I'm only 28, so I wasn't consciously around before the movies came out. I saw them at a later age, but I can tell you I never heard of any one of those objects before. Generally speaking, did people in those days before the movies actually know about those objects?

Suppose not. Then isn't it possible this new Indy movie will introduce us to another one and make us aware of it?

Think about it. Suppose they choose an object or place that's already widely known. I'm thinking of clichés like the ark of Noah, Excalibur, El Dorado, and such. Whatever spin they give it will clash with the view each person already has on it.

So I'm for some obscure object still tied to a major religion. It doesn't have to be popular already; let the new movie make it popular, by showing its significance, what it can do.

Well... the Ark of the Covenant was not WIDELY known, but if you were to read the Bible you would probably have heard of it. Don't take that as me saying you don't read it or that you should or whatever. I'm saying that it's in there and it's a pretty well known part of the Bible. It had the POWER of GOD on EARTH! How cool?! The Sankara Stones are just fictional and are brown rocks that glow. That doesn't mean they are completely boring, just less interesting than a real artifact that supposedly existed in real life. In addition, the Holy Grail (best known for me in Monty Python besides Last Crusade) is a good mcguffin ONLY because it is almost as good as the Ark, except it has no real ties to reality as it is also a fictional artifact.

That said, WHAT Indy goes after is important. It makes the story more compelling when it has large ties to religion... for me it does anyway. I'm not saying I want that, I'm just saying the mystical unknown and direct link to God and Jesus the Ark and Grail portrayed was a bigger factor than the role the Sankara Stones played in TOD.

I would imagine the new film will probably not be as good as those mcguffins, but like I said, it doesn't really make or break the film. It just can make the story a tad more interesting. I can't wait to find out what this movie is called and what the heck Indy is going after. lol.
 

chapter11

Well-known member
No Ticket said:
That said, WHAT Indy goes after is important. It makes the story more compelling when it has large ties to religion...

I agree with that. I think where we differ is whether that religion needs to be Christianity. Personally, if Indy is going after some Mayan or Aztec artifact with equally interesting mystical powers, I think that would be a little more compelling because it's different than Raiders and Last Crusade.
 

No Ticket

New member
chapter11 said:
I agree with that. I think where we differ is whether that religion needs to be Christianity. Personally, if Indy is going after some Mayan or Aztec artifact with equally interesting mystical powers, I think that would be a little more compelling because it's different than Raiders and Last Crusade.

I really don't think it NEEDS to be Christianity. Christianity is just the most dominant form of religion in the world, or at least in MY world it is... the United States. But I think it shouldn't be another Holy Bible related artifact like Noah's Ark or whatever, because that HAS been done TWICE in two other Indiana Jones movies.

So I agree it should be something different. I'm not entirely sure Crystal Skulls will be a cool idea, but I'm sure whatever Indy goes after will be pretty cool once we see it in the movie.
 

HovitosKing

Well-known member
No Ticket said:
I really don't think it NEEDS to be Christianity. Christianity is just the most dominant form of religion in the world, or at least in MY world it is... the United States.

Which is why a non-Christian McGuffin would be so welcomed. Also, the McGuffin of all Christian McGuffins has already been found (holy grail). Let's go after something equally important to some other group.
 
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Professor Jones

New member
chapter11 said:
I really didn't mean to offend you. I simply wanted to point out that it's very Christian-centric, in my opinion, to imply that only Judeo-Christian artifacts can have the proper symbolic power to be worthy of Indy's pursuit. I disagree with the assertion. I did not mean to insult you, and I'm sorry if you feel you were being personally attacked.

No problem chapter11. Thanks for your words.(y) I was just meaning what NoTicket has well explained: artifacts that find their roots in history, in religion (any religion I mean) or even in ancient books or stories, for the fact itself they're known by a part of us yet before the Indy movie that talks about them are surely more fascinating because they can evoke some meanings (and... how can I say it in english "contenuti"....) that derive us from already knowing the artifact.

Artifacts purely invented for the movie aren't capable of such an operation because, since the first time we know them it's when we see the movie, they cannot evoke no meaning or stories or images or remembering....

chapter11 said:
When I saw Raiders as a kid I'd never heard of the Ark of the Covenant! Still loved the movie. ;)

Obviously it can happen that somebody hasn't heard of an historical or old fictional artifact before, but that's an exception: the Authors of the movie know very well that most people will almost have heard about the McGuffin.

I mean, the Crystal Skulls doesn't seem to be so evocative for me, but maybe they're appreciated and well known from a lot of people. I just say that in my modest opinion it's far more easy that a man (not a kid: me neither have heard about the Ark when I first saw Raiders: I was a kid!!!!) knows the Ark, or the Grail than the Crystal Skulls... so I'd hope in the next movie they'll use a McGuffin (statistically) as much famous... that's all!
 

Zorg

New member
Well, Disney just made three hugely succesful Pirates movies, based on a ride. :)

And how does the existence of a "Skull" ride rule out the possibility of skulls in the new movie? Ideas, especially good ones, can be reused and recycled. If the skulls provide a good McGuffin, and I've always said that I think they do, then I have no problem with that.

Many people (including me) used to dream of a Indy finds Atlantis movie. That idea would've been recycled too, and many people didn't seem to have any problem with it.
 

scifiwolf

Member
I'd have to say that the Crystal Skulls work well for the same reason that has been hit upon - they are real and not well-known. The second I found out they were real, I said, "Cool" I would like to know more." That kind of an attitude makes for good word-of-mouth to draw in audiences. It makes people continue to enjoy the movie after they've seen it, and makes people who wouldn't see the movie otherwise want to check it out.
 

Blue Jay

Member
with the official title out now, we at least know that a crystal skull is somehow involved without the certainty of it being the mcguffin.

it is a kingdom revolved AROUND the skull and not the skull
 

Duffy1972

New member
Listen guys, I looked at the wiki page a few months ago and thought... hmmm. Sounds intruiging. Anyway, my curiosity got the better of me and I snapped up this book -

The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls by Chris Morton and Ceri Louise Thomas.

Frankly, there is so much to this story it's mind boggling. But I couldn't put the book down and ithe crystal skuls concept offers some exciting ideas - the book claims that a professor in London devised an image based system, via Kirlian photogroahy, that when placed some quartz crystal under this system, an entity appeared in the crystal and began to leave (midichlorians? Ho ho) serpent like from the formation! You don't have to beleive it, but point is, this isteeming with possibilties. Check the book out, it's unputdownable and properly researched, unlike the nonsense written on wiki.

I was hyped about Indy 4 as it was, but the skulls are perfect foil for an adventure.
 

Major West

Member
Johnny Nys said:
It works the other way around for me. I was actually willing to give the crystal skulls a go, UNTIL I read that Wiki page. Because it also says several skulls have been found and studied and none have exhibited any powers whatsoever. So if they're featured in the movie, you'll have to forget all about that if you want to believe in them.

A bit like having to pretend the Sankara Stones have power in Temple of Doom, which were also made up for the movie.
 

peterlally

New member
Magic happens in the mind of Storytellers, Lucas is such a man, Spielberg is such a man, as a child they inspired me, as a adult they entertianed me as a human being they have touched me.
 

dmaster

New member
We can say, the real mcguffin is the Kingdom and the Crystal Skull is an artifact that leads to that mcguffin, in this case a real place, this is a very typical structure for an adventure movie.

1) Hero learns about something and goes after it - the mcguffin.
2) The audience learns MORE about the mcguffin than the hero watching by scenes on the opposing forces, hence increasing the suspense.
3) The hero starts to know the real value of the mcguffin.
4) The hero gets the mcguffin.

In this case:

1) Marion goes to Indy with a strange Cristal Skull, brings Mutt along, Indy doesn't get to see the son very much (akin to Last Crusade).
2) We're introduced to some scenes in the soviet republics where they are making some weird experiments, and learn the mcguffin is dangerous.
3) The hero learns the real meaning of the Skull, as a key/map/portal to a lost kingdom.
3) Indy gets there, uses the mcguffin to open kingdom.

Thats what i think will happen in general.
 
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dmaster

New member
Incredible Facts

I remember being fascinated by crystal skulls in the early 90's when my tv aired Arthur C. Clarks Mysterious World series. Today I have a book from this show that has a Skull on the cover and its sheer brilliance. I always loved that image, and I love the fact that my most favorite hero is going to have an adventure piece with it!

What I most remember is the fact that they sent the skulls to a lab, and they scanned the thing and found it was made from a single piece of crystal which is incredible, also, they found that there were no microfractures or any indication of it to be etched by metal, so the only way to do one would be to use some meticulous method that would take 300 years or something. They said the skull was an impossibility, but it was there for all to see.

I just love this artifact! And now that I know the real mcguffin Lucas was saying all along, I totally agree with this.

In fact, atlantis sounds like just a big fake after the real hard facts on the skull.
 
I posted this in a thread about Atlantis that must have been deleted, but there's a blog by the guy in charge of continuity for Star Wars and Indy at Lucasfilm. He mentions some of the former references to the crystal skulls in the Indy mythos. The death of the loved one seems the most intriguing idea as well as the one about Atlantis:

http://blogs.starwars.com/holocron/44
 
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