Nurhachi1991
Well-known member
Did anyone else think the mininster at the end of the movie was kinda creepy?
Is KotCS too Fake?
- Thread starter JP Jones
- Start date
Stoo
Well-known member
Stoo said:
Rocket Surgeon said:
Found the thread!Stoo said:It aired on a U.S station that I didn't get so I've only seen a video of the cliff shot. The touch-up came as a complete surprise to everyone but whether it's an improvement or not is hard to say. What I can tell you is that it's a decent facsimile. (There is a thread dedicated to this but I can't find it anymore!) As for Shliemann/Dietrich. What?!? Where?
Special Edition Truck Chase?Just to let you know, birds can break the windshield of a jet airliner and/or get caught in the engines. It is called a "birdstrike" and is a HAZARD to any plane. Birdstrikes are a common training scenario in flight simulators because they cause DAMAGE and are DANGEROUS!QBComics said:
Having a flock o' birds take down a fighter plane is neither unbelievable nor "fake". (It may crash a little too quickly in the film but that's for the wham-bam action pace.) When first seeing Henry Sr. doing his umbrella thing & clucking, I thought he'd gone insane...then after the scene played out, I thought, "Brilliant!"...and Rocket is right about "Sully". Never mind Indy...this man is a hero in the truest sense of the word.
Darth Vile
New member
Stoo said:Just to let you know, birds can break the windshield of a jet airliner and/or get caught in the engines. It is called a "birdstrike" and is a HAZARD to any plane. Birdstrikes are a common training scenario in flight simulators because they cause DAMAGE and are DANGEROUS!
To be fair... as with many Indy stunts/escapades, I think it's much more the positioning and execution than it is the possibility. For example, no one would question the fact that birds can be/are a hazard to aircraft. However, I'm not sure how many examples there are of someone, on the ground, being able to take out a strafing Messerschmitt with a flock of seagulls. Alternatively, people can/have survived atomic explosions? but I?ve not heard of many surviving by hiding in a fridge. Seems to me that the vast majority of these scenarios are ridiculous in nature, but fun on the big screen.
Matinee Idyll
New member
Darth Vile said:
Yeah, even this is more plausible... alot funner too.
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Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Darth Vile said:To be fair no one would question the fact that birds are a hazard to aircraft, people can survive atomic explosions…many surviving by hiding in a fridge.
It seems to me this is another example of how you "reposition" or "rephrase" statements to perpetuate an argument. Much as I've done to your "quote" above.
If you're NOT sure, he it is again:
...you want EXAMPLES of birds taking down a fighter plane?!
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Me neither, your turn! Show meDarth Vile said:
Darth Vile said:
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Matinee Idyll
New member
I can't believe I'm doing this, but the Temple of Doom raft-sequence is hardly out of the realms of plausibility - people have survived far, far higher falls from planes (read on). The fact that it was a real raft, thrown out of a real plane, landing on a real mountain certainly helped the believability factor - as opposed to a CGI fridge being thrown hundreds of meters by a CGI explosion to land in a CGI desert and then have Indy confronted by a CGI prairie dog. You mean to tell me they couldn't even train one freakin' animal to stand still for 3 seconds in the film? Just ugh, disgusting. As soon as you start excusing this crap, you've got no taste left.
I.M. Chisov
Lt. I.M. Chisov was a Russian airman whose Ilyushin IL-4 bomber was attacked by German fighters in January of 1942. Falling nearly 22,000 feet, he hit the edge of a snow-covered ravine and rolled to the bottom. He was badly hurt but survived.
Alan Magee
Alan Magee, a gunner on a B-17 with the 303rd Bomb Group of the U.S. 8th Air Force, was on a mission to St. Nazaire, France in January of 1943, when his bomber was set aflame by enemy fire. He was thrown from the plane before he had a chance to put on his parachute. He fell 20,000 feet and crashed onto* the skylight of the St. Nazaire train station. His arm was badly injured, but he recovered from that and other injuries.
At first the descriptions of the incident made it appear that he had fallen through the skylight but it appears now that he hit the angled skylight and landed on the roof of the train station. We continue to investigate. See this link for a filmmaker's take on Magee's fall.
Nicholas Alkemade
In March of 1944, Nicholas Alkemade was the tail gunner in a British Lancaster bomber on a night mission to Berlin when his plane was attacked by German fighters. When the captain ordered the crew to bail out, Alkemade looked back into the plane and discovered that his parachute was in flames. He chose to jump without a parachute rather than to stay in the burning plane. He fell 18,000 feet, landing in trees, underbrush, and drifted snow. He twisted his knee and had some cuts, but was otherwise alright.
Olen Cooper Bryant
Olen Cooper Bryant was the group navigator on a 485th Bomb Group mission to Regensburg, Germany in February of 1945. On the return trip from the target his B-24 was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire in the #3 engine. The aircraft turned to the left and collided with another B-24 in the formation. The aircraft were at an altitude of about 17,000 feet at this point. Bryant fell an estimated 10,000 feet into the mountains near Chiusaforte, Italy. He landed in deep snow. His fall had been observed by two gunners, who dragged him down the side of the mountain in a makeshift stretcher constructed from one of their parachutes. Bryant suffered neck, back, pelvic, and facial injuries but survived.
I.M. Chisov
Lt. I.M. Chisov was a Russian airman whose Ilyushin IL-4 bomber was attacked by German fighters in January of 1942. Falling nearly 22,000 feet, he hit the edge of a snow-covered ravine and rolled to the bottom. He was badly hurt but survived.
Alan Magee
Alan Magee, a gunner on a B-17 with the 303rd Bomb Group of the U.S. 8th Air Force, was on a mission to St. Nazaire, France in January of 1943, when his bomber was set aflame by enemy fire. He was thrown from the plane before he had a chance to put on his parachute. He fell 20,000 feet and crashed onto* the skylight of the St. Nazaire train station. His arm was badly injured, but he recovered from that and other injuries.
At first the descriptions of the incident made it appear that he had fallen through the skylight but it appears now that he hit the angled skylight and landed on the roof of the train station. We continue to investigate. See this link for a filmmaker's take on Magee's fall.
Nicholas Alkemade
In March of 1944, Nicholas Alkemade was the tail gunner in a British Lancaster bomber on a night mission to Berlin when his plane was attacked by German fighters. When the captain ordered the crew to bail out, Alkemade looked back into the plane and discovered that his parachute was in flames. He chose to jump without a parachute rather than to stay in the burning plane. He fell 18,000 feet, landing in trees, underbrush, and drifted snow. He twisted his knee and had some cuts, but was otherwise alright.
Olen Cooper Bryant
Olen Cooper Bryant was the group navigator on a 485th Bomb Group mission to Regensburg, Germany in February of 1945. On the return trip from the target his B-24 was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire in the #3 engine. The aircraft turned to the left and collided with another B-24 in the formation. The aircraft were at an altitude of about 17,000 feet at this point. Bryant fell an estimated 10,000 feet into the mountains near Chiusaforte, Italy. He landed in deep snow. His fall had been observed by two gunners, who dragged him down the side of the mountain in a makeshift stretcher constructed from one of their parachutes. Bryant suffered neck, back, pelvic, and facial injuries but survived.
Darth Vile
New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Oh dear. Is that the best you can muster for trolling today? What a sad example you set to those, like you, with only three toes and a zip on their head...
Of course, WWII was famed for the allies use of trained birds to defeat the Luftwaffe. A great example being that of The Battle of Britain, where circa 500 German planes were downed by a handful of trained herring-seagulls and curlews... So, as you can see, it is indeed quite simple to utilise birds as a defence against strafing Messerschmitts (I'm assuming Henry Jones Senior undertook training in the RAF)
Now get back to your mashed banana...
Matinee Idyll
New member
Anywho, to return to the original question, Is KotCS too fake? My case:
Prairie Dogs.
Fridges.
Ants.
Monkeys.
Aliens.
I still feel dirty.
Prairie Dogs.
Fridges.
Ants.
Monkeys.
Aliens.
I still feel dirty.
emtiem
Well-known member
Rocket Surgeon said:
It is though a slightly different matter for a jet to be taken down than a propellor plane. It only takes one with a jet, I think.
I have no idea, though- certainly it makes sense that a bird hitting the prop or the leading edge would take it down, and in LC the plane was as such a low altitude that it made perfect sense for it to crash.
It was all done with special effects, though
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Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Absolutely, but they both rely on the flow of air, (unlike Vile it seems), jam that up and it's overemtiem said:
Darth Vile said:
Dodge duck dip dive dodge! Nice response!
Let me translate for those of you who don't understand "out of your ass speak":
Darth Vile said:
blah blah blah blah...ad infinitum.
Funny, when you do talk outof your ass your voice is different but your breath is still the same, which is amazing feat considering this is all written!
You're magical
(Hope you found that better then the "last troll"
)Darth Vile
New member
Rocket Surgeon said:Absolutely, but they both rely on the flow of air, (unlike Vile it seems), jam that up and it's over
Dodge duck dip dive dodge! Nice response!
Let me translate for those of you who don't understand "out of your ass speak":
blah blah blah blah...ad infinitum.
Funny, when you do talk outof your ass your voice is different but your breath is still the same, which is amazing feat considering this is all written!
You're magical
(Hope you found that better then the "last troll"
I expected a better class of trolling... but you've now become lazy at that too... Seems like you are following Spielberg's lead. What a shame.
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Darth Vile said:
Not so much lazy as frustration at your "scatagories".
Darth Vile said:Seems like you are following Spielberg's lead. What a shame.
Wow you put me in such vaunted company! Ah but the source!
Stoo
Well-known member
Which brings us back to the ambiguous nature of this thread topic. "Fake" = unbelievable/implausible...or "Fake" = dodgy visual effects/stuntsDarth Vile said:
The bird gag IS believable but, effects-wise, poorly executed and looks fake (even back in 1989). The fridge escape is the polar opposite in that it looks quite realistic but is insanely outlandish.
Well, some do question the idea which is why it was brought up. Not to mention the numbskull who put together the video in this thread: Cine Massacre: The Top 10 Dumbest Indiana Jones Moments. Anyway, you're saying there aren't many examples of someone on the ground taking out planes using birds but then you stated:Darth Vile said:
...which is a contradiction to your previous stance (and you're preaching to the choir with this).Darth Vile said:Of course, WWII was famed for the allies use of trained birds to defeat the Luftwaffe. A great example being that of The Battle of Britain, where circa 500 German planes were downed by a handful of trained herring-seagulls and curlews... So, as you can see, it is indeed quite simple to utilise birds as a defence against strafing Messerschmitts (I'm assuming Henry Jones Senior undertook training in the RAF)
Of course they are. It's Indiana Jones. Don't get me wrong, Darth. I like the fridge (in all its ridiculousness) but it is not "right up there" with the birds/plane scene. It's at a much higher altitude. If the birds scene is at 10,000 feet, the fridge scene is in the exosphere!Darth Vile said:Seems to me that the vast majority of these scenarios are ridiculous in nature, but fun on the big screen.
Actually, Matinee, there's a better one somewhere. It ends with the fridge door opening and a crispy, burnt skeleton pops out. It's very "well done" (no pun intended).Matinee Idyll said:
You'd like it.If you're doing Daffy Duck as Robin Hood, don't forget "parry".Rocket Surgeon said:
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
Actually it's Patches O'Houlihan, but I know what you're talking about...that's a good one too!Stoo said:If you're doing Daffy Duck as Robin Hood, don't forget "parry".
Stoo
Well-known member
Gotcha.emtiem said:Have another read of it and decide whether you think he was being entirely serious or not
(Nonetheless, sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction. The CRAF had a Suicide Seagull Squadron but Canada was never attacked during WW2 so they were never put to use!)You know what looks fake in "Skull"? The prop snake (the one Indy is pulling on). Snakes have never been easy to replicate and it wasn't improved upon in Indy IV. It's a fake snake.
Stoo said:Gotcha.
You know what looks fake in "Skull"? The prop snake (the one Indy is pulling on). Snakes have never been easy to replicate and it wasn't improved upon in Indy IV. It's a fake snake.
That's what I thought while watching the film in the cinema also, but while checking out the special features on the DVD I thought they showed that it was a real snake?
I can't remember for certain. Although I will say that oddly enough, a significant portion of what looks to be fake in the film was actually real... many of the effects were practical, but they looked like CGI.