Indy 4 Deleted Scenes

James

Well-known member
Another factor for the cemetery fight could've been pacing. In the film, it's a pretty fast-paced action scene, with the warriors flying in and out of frame. Maybe Spielberg decided that the whip moment slowed that momentum too much?

Anyway, just reading through the comic adaptation, and many of the scenes from the novel are included. This suggests that they were probably in the screenplay, and not among the stuff Rollins created for the novelization.

-The football stadium.
-During the flight, Indy teaches Mutt about the Nazca lines.
-The conquistador wrappings are made of the same material as the Roswell alien's wrapping.
-Indy cries tears of blood while looking at the skull.
-Spalko and Mac discuss the skull. The conclusion of this scene has Mac 'testing' Spalko's ESP. She replies, "If I feel the slightest need." We then learn that the question he was thinking of was, "Will Spalko cut my throat when we reach Akator?" (This exchange was also in the novelization.)
-Indy and Mac escape the throne room by running together, and Mac tries to convince Indy he's still on his side. Indy sums up Mac's character by saying, "It's whoever's in the room, isn't it, Mac?"

A few other things of note:

-During Indy's interrogation, he tells the FBI he has many friends in Washington. The FBI man simply replies, "Do you?" This is similar to the exchange that was in Darabont's script.

-At the end of Dean Stanforth's talk with Indy, he mentions that he wishes Indy had found the right woman. He then wonders if Indy ever did, and just didn't realize it at the time. (As Indy reacts, we see the whip and hat in the background.)

-When Indy gives his "we were at the University of Chicago" speech to Oxley, he mentions that they were both in Abner Ravenwood's class.

-During the finale, Indy explains that the aliens were teachers. This is why the skull spoke to him and Oxley, and why it refused to speak to Spalko. They sensed the same greed in her that the conquistadors had possessed.
 

Mothy

Guest
Don't anyone think that these deleted scenes can be the saving grace for KOTCS. It has no chance or hope of being elevated to the heights of the original trilogy.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Mothy said:
Don't anyone think that these deleted scenes can be the saving grace for KOTCS. It has no chance or hope of being elevated to the heights of the original trilogy.

You are correct... in that no matter what they'd offered there would be some who'd argue that Indy's leather jacket in TOD was a better cut and more fitted than his cheap jacket in KOTCS...
 

Agent Z

Active member
James said:
-The football stadium.
-During the flight, Indy teaches Mutt about the Nazca lines.
-The conquistador wrappings are made of the same material as the Roswell alien's wrapping.
-Indy cries tears of blood while looking at the skull.
-Spalko and Mac discuss the skull. The conclusion of this scene has Mac 'testing' Spalko's ESP. She replies, "If I feel the slightest need." We then learn that the question he was thinking of was, "Will Spalko cut my throat when we reach Akator?" (This exchange was also in the novelization.)
-Indy and Mac escape the throne room by running together, and Mac tries to convince Indy he's still on his side. Indy sums up Mac's character by saying, "It's whoever's in the room, isn't it, Mac?"

All of this is great and really should have been put in, definitely in place of the distracting critter shots. Bah!
 

Crusade>Raiders

New member
Darth Vile said:
You are correct... in that no matter what they'd offered there would be some who'd argue that Indy's leather jacket in TOD was a better cut and more fitted than his cheap jacket in KOTCS...

or the temple crumbling down should have been a matte painting instead of CGI, so they could get a "sense of danger". Like Indiana Jones was going to die in an Indiana Jones movie, or something.
 

Jones_Happens

New member
Crusade>Raiders said:
or the temple crumbling down should have been a matte painting instead of CGI, so they could get a "sense of danger". Like Indiana Jones was going to die in an Indiana Jones movie, or something.
Yeah, I distinctly remember feeling that Indiana Jones was going to die in the OT. Because that's always what happens to the namesake of the franchise!:p
 

nitzsche

New member
There are parts in the OT that are so tense with the matte paintings and the blaring trumpets and no animals around that I am convinced Indy died several times during the fight scenes. That's how tense the OT is.
 

Quickening

New member
Mothy said:
Don't anyone think that these deleted scenes can be the saving grace for KOTCS. It has no chance or hope of being elevated to the heights of the original trilogy.

Yeah. Amazing to see so many so called "fans" willing to attack the original trilogy and try and reduce it to the level of KOTCS to make it seem better. With their sarcastic comments it's evident that they understand nothing of what made the original films work. No-one thought Indy would die. Does that mean that a film can't be tense? No. Obviously. But it seems some people really need the obvious pointed out.
I rewatched Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and took note of several moments that were clearly meant to be tense but as we know, there was no tension at all. Namely the bit where Spalko is trying to knock Indy's truck off a cliff and then Mutt swings in to save the day. Why did that fail miserably as a tense scene? Well there is no build-up, it just comes and goes for one thing. There is also no music to build tension. Compare this scene to the bit in Raiders where Indy gets thrown through the wind screen, or in Temple where Indy is about to go under the crusher, or in Crusade where the tank is about to go off the cliff with Indy on it. Then you will see just one clear example of why, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull as much as I enjoyed it, is a shadow of the trilogy.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Quickening said:
Yeah. Amazing to see so many so called "fans" willing to attack the original trilogy and try and reduce it to the level of KOTCS to make it seem better. With their sarcastic comments it's evident that they understand nothing of what made the original films work. No-one thought Indy would die. Does that mean that a film can't be tense? No. Obviously. But it seems some people really need the obvious pointed out.
I rewatched Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and took note of several moments that were clearly meant to be tense but as we know, there was no tension at all. Namely the bit where Spalko is trying to knock Indy's truck off a cliff and then Mutt swings in to save the day. Why did that fail miserably as a tense scene? Well there is no build-up, it just comes and goes for one thing. There is also no music to build tension. Compare this scene to the bit in Raiders where Indy gets thrown through the wind screen, or in Temple where Indy is about to go under the crusher, or in Crusade where the tank is about to go off the cliff with Indy on it. Then you will see just one clear example of why, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull as much as I enjoyed it, is a shadow of the trilogy.

Quickening,

You may state the above, but the fact is this... If I (or anyone else) posits that I felt zero tension in TOD and LC, and that KOTC had/has just as much peril (for better or worse), how do we move forward from that? It seems that all I would get in return is "There is more tension in the first 5 minutes of TOD than the entire running time of KOTCS" etc. Which would be 100% inaccurate and 100% subjective opinion.

So it seems that all we can do is agree to disagree (which I’m more than happy to do), but unfortunately there are several posters on these boards who will never leave it at that and who automatically take a contrary position in order to goad and enflame (a great example a few posts up). Again I state for the record (IMHO) TOD and LC had very few perilous moments. The standout one in both movies probably being the tank scene (which some people dislike anyway).
 

Quickening

New member
Darth Vile said:
Quickening,

You may state the above, but the fact is this... If I (or anyone else) posits that I felt zero tension in TOD and LC, and that KOTC had/has just as much peril (for better or worse), how do we move forward from that? It seems that all I would get in return is "There is more tension in the first 5 minutes of TOD than the entire running time of KOTCS" etc. Which would be 100% inaccurate and 100% subjective opinion.

So it seems that all we can do is agree to disagree (which I?m more than happy to do), but unfortunately there are several posters on these boards who will never leave it at that and who automatically take a contrary position in order to goad and enflame (a great example a few posts up). Again I state for the record (IMHO) TOD and LC had very few perilous moments. The standout one in both movies probably being the tank scene (which some people dislike anyway).

Yes, you're right, we (myself and the people who loved the film) will never agree and frankly Im sick of going round in circles. Ive started a thread to talk with people who generally had the same feeling about the film as I did. Weirdly, I find such dialogue more constructive. Not that I begrudge anyone loving the film, I wish I did, but I can't make myself like what I disliked.
 

Mothy

Guest
Quickening said:
Yeah. Amazing to see so many so called "fans" willing to attack the original trilogy and try and reduce it to the level of KOTCS to make it seem better. With their sarcastic comments it's evident that they understand nothing of what made the original films work. No-one thought Indy would die. Does that mean that a film can't be tense? No. Obviously. But it seems some people really need the obvious pointed out.
I rewatched Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and took note of several moments that were clearly meant to be tense but as we know, there was no tension at all. Namely the bit where Spalko is trying to knock Indy's truck off a cliff and then Mutt swings in to save the day. Why did that fail miserably as a tense scene? Well there is no build-up, it just comes and goes for one thing. There is also no music to build tension. Compare this scene to the bit in Raiders where Indy gets thrown through the wind screen, or in Temple where Indy is about to go under the crusher, or in Crusade where the tank is about to go off the cliff with Indy on it. Then you will see just one clear example of why, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull as much as I enjoyed it, is a shadow of the trilogy.

Precisely. You hit the nail right on the head.
 

Jones_Happens

New member
Quickening said:
Yeah. Amazing to see so many so called "fans" willing to attack the original trilogy and try and reduce it to the level of KOTCS to make it seem better. With their sarcastic comments it's evident that they understand nothing of what made the original films work. No-one thought Indy would die. Does that mean that a film can't be tense? No. Obviously. But it seems some people really need the obvious pointed out.
I rewatched Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and took note of several moments that were clearly meant to be tense but as we know, there was no tension at all. Namely the bit where Spalko is trying to knock Indy's truck off a cliff and then Mutt swings in to save the day. Why did that fail miserably as a tense scene? Well there is no build-up, it just comes and goes for one thing. There is also no music to build tension. Compare this scene to the bit in Raiders where Indy gets thrown through the wind screen, or in Temple where Indy is about to go under the crusher, or in Crusade where the tank is about to go off the cliff with Indy on it. Then you will see just one clear example of why, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull as much as I enjoyed it, is a shadow of the trilogy.

This is such a subjective thing. What is thrilling to one person is obviously not to another.

I still feel that many fans saw the OT when they were younger so the scenes seemed more thrilling to them. They carry these feelings with them into adulthood. Now, seeing KOTCS, they are looking for the same feelings to well up inside them...and it just isn't going to happen.

I would love to hear from someone who never saw the OT until they saw KOTCS (I don't think we'll find that person on these boards). I have a theory that a person who sees all of the films for the first time as an adult ( and within a few months of one another) would have a very different view than the rest of us.
 

Mothy

Guest
Dovchenko said:
This is such a subjective thing. What is thrilling to one person is obviously not to another.

I still feel that many fans saw the OT when they were younger so the scenes seemed more thrilling to them. They carry these feelings with them into adulthood. Now, seeing KOTCS, they are looking for the same feelings to well up inside them...and it just isn't going to happen.

I would love to hear from someone who never saw the OT until they saw KOTCS (I don't think we'll find that person on these boards). I have a theory that a person who sees all of the films for the first time as an adult ( and within a few months of one another) would have a very different view than the rest of us.

You can twist this yarn as much as you like, create all these reasonings, but the simple fact is the new film is terrible. You are pushing rope up hill, it simply doesnt work.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Mothy said:
You can twist this yarn as much as you like, create all these reasonings, but the simple fact is the new film is terrible. You are pushing rope up hill, it simply doesnt work.

Actually, it's the bit about declaring your opinion as some sort of aesthetic fact when it is very far from near it that doesn't work. It's not because its yours - it's because it doesn't work that way, and it doesn't work as a tool of persuasion either. This is at least the second time you've been told this, and that's only from the upkeep.

I didn't like the movie much either, but this form of argumentation makes me want to switch sides.
 

Indyswede

New member
Mothy said:
You can twist this yarn as much as you like, create all these reasonings, but the simple fact is the new film is terrible. You are pushing rope up hill, it simply doesnt work.

I agree. Spielberg said he made this for the fans? I wonder if he was in the directors room fixing up a DVD edition that "we" the real fans of the original triology are waiting for.

No Spielberg did this for the kids. Unfortuneatly.

He made his own cult hero a soft guy that lacks credability, a parody of the former himself. They could have cut out all the scenes with Marion in them also, jokes at benny hill level there, but benny was more fun.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Indyswede said:
I agree. Spielberg said he made this for the fans? I wonder if he was in the directors room fixing up a DVD edition that "we" the real fans of the original triology are waiting for.

No Spielberg did this for the kids. Unfortuneatly. .


You state "parody"; I state "evolution" (for better or worse). If you are levelling parody as a criticism of KOTCS, I think TOD is by far a bigger offender. Indy moved away from a being a relatively believable action adventure hero to a virtual ‘Superman’ (a one man army).

So KOTCS may have extended that precedent established in TOD i.e. overly absurd situations… but I think Indy’s character in KOTCS is far more believable/realistic than the relatively 2-dimensional version of Indy in TOD.
 

DarthMickey

New member
What tha deleted!

yeap we should see all the deleted scenes by the time Lucas released the 5th version of the dvd in 2020 or so!(y)
 

James

Well-known member
Indyswede said:
Spielberg said he made this for the fans? I wonder if he was in the directors room fixing up a DVD edition that "we" the real fans of the original triology are waiting for.

I think Spielberg considers "the fans" to be a very broad demographic, since that's the audience that went to see the first three films. It's also the audience that has currently been driving KOTCS at the box office.

He clearly regarded this film as something for the entire family, and repeated that sentiment often. Just as the Indy crew that made the films has gotten older, so too have the fans that grew up with the original trilogy.
 
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