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Old 02-27-2011, 01:03 PM   #26
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
Mitchell states the same thing Montana does: it's not Raiders of the Lost Ark.

That wasn't me, Stephen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
Is it possible that Raiders of the Lost Ark was so good that it ruined the adventure movie genre? If the lead isn't as compelling as Indy, we're disappointed. If the action isn't as riveting ...

I don't compare every adventure movie to Indy. ROTLA is the benchmark for Indy movies - to me they're self-contained and bound by character.

Movies can stand by themselves. The Rocketeer didn't inspire me. I didn't feel anything for the characters, and therefore nothing for their predicament. That's the basis of how I judge movies. Action without character is dull. Which is maybe what you mean when you write:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
I'm talking about old fashioned adventure, not video game-inspired things like Prince of Persia.


Romancing the Stone was a better adventure. Sky Captain felt too distant to get involved with: that grimy colour acted as a barrier.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:05 PM   #27
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Hi Montana,
Earlier in the thread, Lance compared Rocketeer to Raiders, even quoting Ebert doing the same, and then you echoed his sentiments as to perceived weaknesses in Rocketeer, saying "that's where the Indy movies stand out."

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

My main purpose here, especially with you, is to try to get you to revisit the film. It's not for everyone. But it's surprising to me that you like The Phantom but feel The Rocketeer wasn't good.

I agree about Romancing the Stone.

Here is where there may be some agreement in the disappointment with Rocketeer (including Mitchell's). I love The Rocketeer, The Phantom, Dick Tracy, The Shadow, the 1980 Flash Gordon. And yet, even though each of those were supposed to start franchises, I'm glad they only made one film from each. It does take an extraordinary character to warrant a series of films. While brand new versions of those films might be fun, the characters in those specific films didn't make me long for sequels. But, to me, that's okay. I'll take them as they are and relish them all the more because they stand alone.

The best of the films based on old serials was The Mask of Zorro I think. They did make a sequel to that obviously, and though I didn't hate it, something altogether new based on an old serial may have been a better expenditure of time and money.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:31 PM   #28
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I remember being amazed Katzenberg wrote back, my letter to Disney was critical of the marketing not so much the actual film. I thought Jennifer Connelly was beautiful as Jenny/ Bettie Page. And Campbell had the look and they had chemistry ( I recall they were engaged after the film -so they definitely hit it off) but I remember them being on local TV news with the helmet trying to tell people what the film was and all they kept saying was "Raiders". Plus you had the Joe Johnston connection to ILM ( ironically I saw the Rocketeer puppet under glass at ILM last week and that's what brought back all the memories). Yet where Toht is scary, Lothar is goofy ( no Disney pun), Belloq is slick and evil, Sinclair is a ham. I think some of actors just didn't get it. Paul Sorvino seems like a Batman TV baddie. And Alan Arkin is one of my favorites - heart is a lonely hunter/and in-laws are his best- but it doesn't work.

Is it the director? Johnston is a sfx genius, and this was his debut big screen movie - maybe it had too much expectations.

I put this side-by-side with The Shadow. Looks great, has mostly good performances but is misfiring. And you don't know why. I do remember the cheesy toys - I still have the bendy, bank, 3D readalong, pins, and trading cards. It was handled like a rated G movie and all the negativity that anyone over 9 has when seeing a "kids" movie - The Rocketeer needed a tougher edge. It's too soft and that's why there never was a sense of danger, plus Disney wouldn't make a truly violent movie. I didn't need Saving Private Ryan violence but more Raiders esque action would have helped.

Here it is twenty years later and we still talk about it, and I wish Dave Stevens was still around adding to his creation. The Rocketeer is a one hit wonder in comic lore, and that if given more time and care could have been a film classic

It is what it is. Then again atleast it made more sense than Buckaroo Banzai!
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
Hi Montana,
Earlier in the thread, Lance compared Rocketeer to Raiders, even quoting Ebert doing the same, and then you echoed his sentiments as to perceived weaknesses in Rocketeer, saying "that's where the Indy movies stand out."

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

I specifically ignored Lance's comment referring to Raiders in my reply. Indy movies stand out because they create interesting characters (though as with KOTCS the creators don't always know how to use them for the best). What I recall of The Rocketeer was a series of visuals enacted by un-interesting characters. In the cinema all I wanted was for the movie to be over quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
My main purpose here, especially with you, is to try to get you to revisit the film. It's not for everyone. But it's surprising to me that you like The Phantom but feel The Rocketeer wasn't good.

The more I think about it, the more The Rocketeer resembles the 1980's Flash Gordon: intentionally hammy. When I first saw Flash on video I was constantly wishing that the creators had taken it more seriously, that it had been like Star Wars, and not a comedy.

And this tallies with Mitchell's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchellhallock
The Rocketeer needed a tougher edge. It's too soft and that's why there never was a sense of danger...

Romancing the Stone succeeded in combining comedy with danger, and I think The Phantom did as well. The Mummy series of movies fit here, too, though they were hit and miss.

If a DVD of The Rocketeer appears in front of me and the seller's asking for a quid, then I'll revisit it. Apart from that I have no inclination to go out of my way to see it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jared
The best of the films based on old serials was The Mask of Zorro I think.

That one's been sitting in my 'DVDs to (re)watch pile' for some time.

When it comes to Banderas, my favourite movies of his are El Mariachi, Desperado and Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Pulp movies inspired by '60s Italian westerns, set in a world not unlike that of the earlier pulps which inspired the Indy series. That is, a world not quite as real as our own, where physics allows for a greater expression of action, but with room for character, epic quality, tongue-in-cheek comedy, violence, and danger. It may be mock-epic, but I care for the characters, whereas in The Rocketeer I remember not caring whether they lived or died. Neither was the sense of adventure riveting. In that regard it resembles post-Doom Town KOTCS.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:00 PM   #30
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20th Anniversary Edition, coming to Blu-Ray Dec 13!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS.../5336714571-20



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Old 12-19-2011, 07:45 AM   #31
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When Disney initially announced their plans for a second gate in Anaheim based around the idea of "California" I was hopeful. For what? That they would delve into the state's... well, mythology. Given the Golden State's integral nature in the development of manned flight, for example, here was the perfect opportunity to build out a ride based on The Rocketeer! Sadly it wasn't to be; instead the sharp pencil boys thrust a very literal interpretation of the state upon the masses. Touristas can soar over California for real, and the actual Golden Gate Bridge isn't that far from Anaheim. Alcatraz too. Food's better as well.

Too date the only evidence of The Rocketeer in Disneyland is in Tomorrowland. There's a popcorn stand that sets up in front of where the Astro Orbiter used to be, that has a figure of Cliff Secord mindlessly popping kernels.



Why bring it up? Because Disney continues to short sheet the picture! Despite a zeppelin's worth of promotional material for the film, Disney saw fit to only include the trailer on the 20th Anniversary release. This also in spite of the fact that they arranged a special screening at the El Capitan, and put together an extensive panel of the film's cast & crew and a gallery's worth of props and artwork!



You can find a nice write-up of the event over at The Rocketeer.net!

Oddly enough, Bill Campbell doesn't appear to have actually aged much in twenty years! He could reprise the role! But if you're like me, and need to upgrade your worn out VHS copy, definitely pickup the Blu-ray release. The restoration on the film itself is superb; they even appear to have better integration of the green screen work into the actual picture.

*My Zorro stuntshow would have made Indy look like child's play.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:29 PM   #32
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I loved the Rocketeer.It's one of my favorite movies.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:43 AM   #33
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The Rocketeer Flies Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderMitch
Here it is twenty years later and we still talk about it, and I wish Dave Stevens was still around adding to his creation.

Yes, yes we do. And sometimes all that talk leads to action.

Last year IDW Publishing released Stevens' creation in several collections and introduced a new generation of fans to Cliff Secord & Co. Thanks (presumably) to those sales, they've continued with a brand spankin' new mini-series featuring work from some of today's brightest talents -- Alex Ross, Mike Allred, Kurt Busiek, and Mike Mignola to name just a few!

The first three issues are already on stands now. Then in August of this year, turbulence and adventure become synonymous!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDW Publishing
IDW is pleased to announce that this summer, Dave Stevens’ legendary, high-flying avenger of the skies will soar once again! This August, renowned writer Mark Waid teams up with the inimitable Chris Samnee to bring The Rocketeer: Cargo of Doom! to comic shop shelves everywhere.

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Old 08-22-2012, 06:05 AM   #34
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Don't Call it a Funkin' Reboot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Sabotuer
And sometimes all that talk leads to action.

All that talk sometimes leads to more talk, albeit interesting talk...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Internet
...The Rocketeer Relaunched?


Dark corners of the interwebs were abuzz with rumors that newly installed Disney Studio honcho, Alan Horn, is planning to meet with scribblers (well, not personally!) to discuss what directions a remake could take; i.e., live-action, animated feature, story, etc. They'll probably discuss whether or not the project actually has legs; twenty years between pictures... well, need we say more?

The project's obviously in its fledgling state, but the possibility of Cliff Secord taking to the skies again is exciting. There's a wealth of direct and indirect material (Yes, Crimson Skies, that means you) to draw from. Disney could feasibly go in-house and draw from Talespin.

Yes, it features anthropomorphic characters, but in theme, attitude, and look it shares a lot with the classic pulp adventures! Don Karnage's air pirates even get around in planes very similar to the GeeBee Z!



Perhaps not coincidentally, the news comes on the heels of the release of Cargo of Doom, the latest 4 issue miniseries that hits comic book shoppes everywhere today!

Comic Book Resource has a nifty preview available for viewing as well. Check it out here.







Had a chance to see this? It's pretty good.



Also: Want to fiddle around with building your own jetpack? Well, check this out!
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:41 AM   #35
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If we increase the manifold pressure...

...and adjust the air to fuel ratio, then maybe we can get a sequel. Or, in this case, another mini-series from IDW Publishing! This time around Roger Langridge and J. Bone team up to bring us... The Rocketeer: Hollywood Horror!

The mini-series went on sale last month, and the second issue hit shelves about a week back. Early word has it that it mixes up the classic pulp adventures that fans have come to know and love, with a touch of Lovecraftian horror(!?). Now, I know that Cliff Secord has almost nothing in the way of established lore, but this seems like a bridge too far. Fingers crossed.



Also: In a rare bit of crossover news, it looks like IDW will be publishing a Rocketeer/The Spirit team-up due out in July. Not much is known yet, but it looks like The Spirit will be heading out to the Left Coast to investigate the murder of a wealthy industrialist.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:17 AM   #36
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While looking for something else, I stumbled across this little ditty over @ YouTube. Seems like some kind soul has uploaded Disney's short behind the scenes documentary "The Rocketeer: Excitement in the Air." I don't think I've ever seen this, and Disney doesn't feel a particular need to include it on any of the home video releases.

There's a couple nice bits with Dave Stevens, too.





The Spruce Goose was once displayed outside?! I remember seeing it inside a giant hanger.



There's also a couple of nifty blog reports and a hefty photo gallery available on-line for anybody who's interested.

And just because...

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
If a DVD of The Rocketeer appears in front of me and the seller's asking for a quid, then I'll revisit it. Apart from that I have no inclination to go out of my way to see it again.

This happened three weeks ago, but I've only now gotten around to watching it again.

Rocketeer hasn't improved after two decades. It's still dull and un-engaging, without a single character to care about. An effort so feeble it's not even on par with Zombies of the Stratosphere!



While it was no Raiders of the Lost Ark I did discover two things:

1) Locke from Lost is in it.

2) Jordan Collier from The 4400 is in it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:10 AM   #38
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Ah yes, Zombies of the Stratosphere, starring Leonard Nimoy as "Narab".

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #39
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Ah yes, Zombies of the Stratosphere, starring Leonard Nimoy as "Narab".


In glorious green,



and silver,



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Old 05-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #40
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Writing of colour, the coolest part of Rocketeer was actually the black and white propaganda cartoon.



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Old 09-06-2013, 02:52 AM   #41
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A few days ago I was sorting through some old magazine and comics, and discovered this among them:



Can't remember where it came from. Certainly wouldn't have bought it new, so it must have come in with a box of comics.

Again, the artwork is better than the film!
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:51 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
A few days ago I was sorting through some old magazine and comics, and discovered this among them:



Can't remember where it came from. Certainly wouldn't have bought it new, so it must have come in with a box of comics.

Again, the artwork is better than the film!

Oh. My. Goshh..... Thanks for posting that Smitty! I forgot all about that even existing, but I'm 98% sure I owned that. If memory serves me correct, I may have even bought two copies. I think they may (hopefully), be lurking somewhere in my parent's house, in storage.

Man that brings back memories. Oh yeah, I have a lot of love for the Rocketeer. I agree, the artwork is great! I went out of my way, when it was in theaters, to acquire the poster, vinyl banner, and cardboard hanging mobil, from the theater when they were almost done with them! Too bad, you didn't appreciate the movie much from the sound of it.

Curious why you didn't like it, Montana. Perhaps I will look to see if you commented previously on that matter. If you haven't yet, I would like to hear your thoughts.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:51 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
A few days ago I was sorting through some old magazine and comics, and discovered this among them:



Can't remember where it came from. Certainly wouldn't have bought it new, so it must have come in with a box of comics.

Again, the artwork is better than the film!

Oh. My. Goshh..... Thanks for posting that Smitty! I forgot all about that even existing, but I'm 98% sure I owned that. If memory serves me correct, I may have even bought two copies. I think they may (hopefully), be lurking somewhere in my parent's house, in storage.
oops...hit submit twice. Moderators please, feel free to leave the first one and remove this one.
Man that brings back memories. Oh yeah, I have a lot of love for the Rocketeer. I agree, the artwork is great! I went out of my way, when it was in theaters, to acquire the poster, vinyl banner, and cardboard hanging mobil, from the theater when they were almost done with them! Too bad, you didn't appreciate the movie much from the sound of it.

Curious why you didn't like it, Montana. Perhaps I will look to see if you commented previously on that matter. If you haven't yet, I would like to hear your thoughts.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:10 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Monarch
Too bad, you didn't appreciate the movie much from the sound of it.

Curious why you didn't like it, Montana. Perhaps I will look to see if you commented previously on that matter. If you haven't yet, I would like to hear your thoughts.


This just about covers it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
I saw this in the cinema when it first came out - it was a second choice movie since our first choice had sold all available seats.

I hated it at the time. I remember being bored senseless and waiting for it to end.

I haven't seen it in years, but would probably enjoy it if I saw it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
I didn't "get it" at the time. My mates were saying, "But it's based on a graphic novel..." Though it just felt really silly back then, and being a second choice movie I was compelled to sit though it.

Since then I've been into pulp beyond Indy, so, as I said it deserves another appraisal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
Whether the subject is fantastical or not, if it's featherweight it holds little interest. There has to be something in a movie beyond a visual spectacle, meaning characterization to lend an air of purpose. That would be where the Indy movies stand out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
There are some movies that have a cool premise and cool visuals, but you just want to shake some life into them. That was my initial Rocketeer experience. I just wanted the movie to be over quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
The Rocketeer, like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, just failed to engage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
The Rocketeer didn't inspire me. I didn't feel anything for the characters, and therefore nothing for their predicament. That's the basis of how I judge movies. Action without character is dull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
What I recall of The Rocketeer was a series of visuals enacted by un-interesting characters. In the cinema all I wanted was for the movie to be over quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
If a DVD of The Rocketeer appears in front of me and the seller's asking for a quid, then I'll revisit it. Apart from that I have no inclination to go out of my way to see it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiffy
This happened three weeks ago, but I've only now gotten around to watching it again.

Rocketeer hasn't improved after two decades. It's still dull and un-engaging, without a single character to care about. An effort so feeble it's not even on par with Zombies of the Stratosphere!

And ending on a high point:

Quote:
...the coolest part of Rocketeer was actually the black and white propaganda cartoon.


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Old 09-06-2013, 07:52 AM   #45
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Wow, thanks for taking the time to paste and print for me. I may still go back, and read them in full, as I probably have before, once upon a time. I will perhaps engage you in conversation about any areas, where I agree, or digress in opinion on The Rocketeer. Nonetheless, good to hear your take
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:15 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Also: In a rare bit of crossover news, it looks like IDW will be publishing a Rocketeer/The Spirit team-up due out in July. Not much is known yet, but it looks like The Spirit will be heading out to the Left Coast to investigate the murder of a wealthy industrialist.

Yes, yes they did. Cross-company team-ups are so rare (following the Marvel/DC debacle) that it's surprising that a major publisher (DC) is allowing IDW to fiddle about with one of their characters. It's not Batman, but it's still impressive.

Anyway.

Mark Waid (writer of Cargo of Doom!) is back handling the writing duties on this latest Rocketeer book. The legendary Paul Smith (X-Men, Dr. Strange, etc.) takes over the penciling duties.

The Rundown: Alderman Cunningham is found dead following a highly publicized protest against the privatization of radio and television broadcasts in Central City. Normally fairly routine for The Spirit, but the body was found 3,000 miles away in Hollywood a mere eight hours after the protest!

Given the state of air travel in 1941 this presents an impossible mystery. So The Spirit heads west with Commissioner Dolan and his star-obsessed daughter where they run afoul of Cliff Secord and Bettie.



The first three(?) issues out of four are on newsstands now. As well as on-line!

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Old 12-30-2013, 05:43 AM   #47
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Edward Eyth was hired as a production designer on The Rocketeer and ended up spending the majority of his time designing the jetpack that would transform Cliff Secord into The Rocketeer! Of the changes made from the original comic, this was probably my favorite. I never cared for the original look that Dave Stevens came up with.



You can check out Mr. Eyth's Deviant Art gallery here; otherwise, the folks over at Comic Book Movie have collected nearly all of his sketches on a single page. Check 'em out here.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #48
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I just noticed this thread...yeah, I'm slow. Thought I would chime in...

I am a big fan of The Rocketeer. He is a great character, and a wonderful throwback to the serials of old. Dave Stevens arrived at a wonderful character, and great initial run of stories.
I picked up the large slip-case version of the reprints that IDW put out a couple of years ago. It's beautiful! I recommend checking it out if you haven't.
Also quite fun are the mini-series book runs that IDW have been publishing..."the further adventures," if you will.
To me the movie is lots of fun. I loved it, and still do. Bought it on Blu-ray!
Joe Johnston tried to capture the spirit of the past with the film and succeeded to a degree. No, it's not a perfect movie, but it is fun, to me, and beautiful to watch. I thought it was cast very well, and always look forward to seeing Rick Baker's wonderful recreation of Rondo Hatton for the movie!
The movie works for me. I hope that Disney will look into doing further work with this character!

I took my family to Disney World this past summer and was looking forward to pointing out The Bulldog Cafe, and the Gee Bee, on the back lot tour at Hollywood Studios, but unfortunately they are not on the tour anymore. Sad.
I do have a picture of both of them on the tour from years ago, so at least I have that. At least the jet-pack is still there to be seen in the warehouse, and The Rocketeer still has his impression on the ground at The Chinese Theater.

Anyway...long live The Rockteer! I hope there will be adventures to come!
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:21 PM   #49
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I love the spirit of the rocketeer, it's a film I have revisited every 5 years or so. In particular I never forget the villians; Timothy Dalton is excellent and the giant Henchman (played by a guy called Tiny Ron) is cartoonishly frightening and memorable
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:01 PM   #50
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I watched this film in my film class last night. (My film teacher is Danny Bilson who wrote the script) Anyway, I got a very raiders feel from it, especially the evil german guy at the end who seemed on loan from Raiders. Looked it up later, and apparently they wanted to make a trilogy about it but it failed due to not making enough? Also checked again on that reboot and apparently no traction so far? I don't know...

But now that Disney owns it do you think its possible they might try to fold it into Marvel in some way? I mean the record for third party superheroes has not been so great... (Green Hornet, lone ranger, the spirit) in theaters so Marvel might be better for this sort of thing.
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