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Old 10-08-2003, 03:46 PM   #101
intergamer
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Re: See Revelation 22:1

Quote:
Originally posted by apalehorse
I think it is intersting that the Tree's leaves promise to heal the nations. That could be an interesting twist in an era marked by the cold war. Impetus enough to seek, no?


...heal the nations from what? commies? or mcarthyist witch burners?
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Old 10-11-2003, 04:16 PM   #102
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Re: Re: See Revelation 22:1

Quote:
Originally posted by intergamer
Quote:
Originally posted by apalehorse
I think it is intersting that the Tree's leaves promise to heal the nations. That could be an interesting twist in an era marked by the cold war. Impetus enough to seek, no?


...heal the nations from what? commies? or mcarthyist witch burners?
Quote:
Revelation 22:2
On either side of the river stood a tree of life, which yields twelve crops of fruit, one for each month of the year; the leaves of the trees serve for the healing of the nations. Every accursed thing shall disappear.

So every thing that is accursed (or someone believes to be so) would be gone. Either side in the Cold War might see the leaves as being a way of getting rid of the other side (no atomic bombs required). All you'd have to do is pop over to the new Jerusalem and find the trees, pick a few leaves and take them home - simple (if you've got a map to heaven and stuff...)
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:00 PM   #103
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Now we're getting somewhere. And Thanatos, it's good to see you again, as it is.
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:16 PM   #104
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Re: Re: See Revelation 22:1

Quote:
Originally posted by intergamer
Quote:
Originally posted by apalehorse
I think it is intersting that the Tree's leaves promise to heal the nations. That could be an interesting twist in an era marked by the cold war. Impetus enough to seek, no?


...heal the nations from what? commies? or mcarthyist witch burners?

The Greek word for "nations" in this passage is ethnos and represents an elimination of racial and social barriers, a bringing together of all people together in God's Kingdom. Interesting effect that would have on a Cold War, no?
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:52 AM   #105
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It seem as though you are talking about a New World Order there, Cain.

I would say that the promise of world unity amongst the leaves would motivate many who would want to end the growing Cold War of the 50's. But the heart of this thread is the Tree of Life, Eden (a paradise on earth) and to a lesser extent, the Tree of Knowledge.
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Old 10-24-2003, 05:59 PM   #106
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Remember, we have to be true to the time period, we can't change the whole cold war around!
Or can we?
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Old 10-24-2003, 11:34 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by intergamer
Remember, we have to be true to the time period, we can't change the whole cold war around!
Or can we?

But the concept of "Paradise Lost", a possible end to the Cold War decades before it actually ended, and that possibility missed could be some strong drama.
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Old 10-27-2003, 03:39 PM   #108
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i know...combine atlantis, iraq, and the reds!

uh maybe the flaming sword could be the key to eden. the reds find a scripture or something that says the sword was taken from babel in a raid (maybe by egyptians or something, and its taken from them by the romans) and eventually after centuries of fighting the greeks/atlanteans get it and its hidden in atlantis. indy tails the reds at their little dig and figures out where atlantis is but gets captured. the reds get the info from him and head for atlantis. they think theyve "killed" him in some undirect way like in raiders, so theyre not watchful and he follows them and stows away on their sub. then they find the city and the head commie guy will try to take the sword from its temple but indy fights him for it. (ok lets say its death to touch it) the guy grabs it but it burns him up or something. indy picks it up but drinking from the grail protects him, and he runs for the sub but as atlantis falls apart around him he loses it to the depths of the ocean. he excapes with the girl (has to be a heroine worked in there somehow or its just not an indy show) and the credits roll after some meaningful words about how he could have found eden. the end. howzat?
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Old 06-07-2004, 03:59 PM   #109
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*bump

Yes, shameful I know.
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Old 06-07-2004, 05:37 PM   #110
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Re: *bump

Quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse
Yes, shameful I know.

you mean shameless? actually, that's rather interesting - it seems unless i'm mistaken, in this case shameful and shameless mean the same thing.

As for Indy 4 speculation - alas we're back to speculating about whether or not the film will me made at all. I wouldn't mind so much that they didn't make the movie if they at least released Darabont's script for us all to read - I'd be tempted to make a fan movie out of it.

Last edited by intergamer : 06-07-2004 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-17-2004, 10:18 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by lornconner
I dont' think they'd kill Indy...it would break the nature of a serial adventure film. Even if this is going to be the last one, you never kill your main character.

The interesting thing about the Indiana Jones character is that he's grown in some way in each movie, so while I don't think you'll see anything as drastic as Indy dying, his perception of life and the things that are around him will change, further shaping his worldview.



Lorn


They could kill Indy. They killed Godzilla.

I don't like this "tree" idea, enough Bible! Maybe Indy should go after something out of the Koron, that way we could see him back in the desert with Sallah.
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Old 06-17-2004, 10:19 PM   #112
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Arrow

A Muslim artifact would be very interesting I think. After all they have covered almost every other magor religion!
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Old 06-17-2004, 11:04 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strider
They could kill Indy. They killed Godzilla.

I don't like this "tree" idea, enough Bible! Maybe Indy should go after something out of the Koron, that way we could see him back in the desert with Sallah.


This thread isn't about the Koran...

Quote:
Originally posted by Strider
A Muslim artifact would be very interesting I think. After all they have covered almost every other magor religion!


This also isn't about a Muslim artifact, (unless you are refering to the Kabalah tree of life and it's ties to the Muslim faith. But that would involve some research.)

Perhaps a new thread exploring the aspects of a different religion could be developed. They need their own room to grow.
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Old 06-18-2004, 08:31 PM   #114
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Arrow

Sorry Pale Horse.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:12 AM   #115
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I sure as heck hope that Indy 4 would never, ever be Tree of Life aka Monkey King. I glanced over the script and it's interesting, but the whole Betsy thing is pretty sick. I don't think a 21 year-old girl trying to commit suicide over a 40+/50+ man is funny in the least. The whole theme with Indy and Betsy make Indy look like an indifferent and lecherous old man who looks at women as sex objects. Women would definately NOT like Indy after seeing THIS movie.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:29 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indyologist
I sure as heck hope that Indy 4 would never, ever be Tree of Life aka Monkey King. I glanced over the script and it's interesting, but the whole Betsy thing is pretty sick. I don't think a 21 year-old girl trying to commit suicide over a 40+/50+ man is funny in the least. The whole theme with Indy and Betsy make Indy look like an indifferent and lecherous old man who looks at women as sex objects. Women would definately NOT like Indy after seeing THIS movie.


I am betting on the fact that IJ-IV is precisely about Eden and many of the elements listed above. I do not think it will follow the Monkey King script in the least. But knowing where we came from is a basic human tenant that all civilizations wrestle with, and the Garden has many different stories, depending on the culture telling them.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:42 AM   #117
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Yeah the whole Tree of Life/Eden thing is intresting
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:59 AM   #118
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They wouldn't kill Indy. It would just make audiences upset. If anyone dies it would probably Henry SR.

As for a muslim plot...that'd just come off politically correct. That's not a bad thing but let's not change a formula that works. Plus Indy has obviously grown up with some sort of Neo-Christian philosophy and might not have a great interest in that sort of artifact.

"They could kill Indy. They killed Godzilla." - strider

Godzilla came back for about 3 more movies after his death. They killed Freddy krueger too remember? They killed the terminator (yeah I know it wasn't the same machine that came back for a sequel but he did) and they killed Sigourney Weaver in the alien movies.

I don't know about the muslim faith but it seems to me there isn't as many possibilities for artifacts then the bible. I mean we could still do the staff of moses.

In second grade I wrote a story called Indiana Jones and the secret of the sphynx. It was set in Egypt and had nothing biblical in it (like TOD).
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:46 PM   #119
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I like the idea of Eden. An aging Indy looking for a Scriptural fountain of youth...it's just wacky enough to pull off. And not being able to taste of the fruit (no one actually thought he would, did they?) would be a great shadowing of the sunset of Indy's life without killing him off. The mechanics of the story I'll leave in the realm of the storytellers, but it offers great possibilities.

And to address the earlier CGI concerns, was the blue-screen drek in the original trilogy really all that endearing? C'mon, guys...
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:20 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy's_main_man
[I don't know about the muslim faith but it seems to me there isn't as many possibilities for artifacts then the bible. I mean we could still do the staff of moses.


You know, the ironic thing is, I've been planning to write an Indy fan fiction revolving arond the staff of Moses for about a couple months now. I'll probably call it "IJ and the Secret of Sinai" (Mt. Sinai is the mountain where he talked to god through the burning bush and recieved the staff). I should be starting that right after I finish the one I'm currently working on...

Anyways, back on topic, I quite like the idea of the Garden of Eden. I think it's something that Indy would go after for whatever reason; whether he wants to or not, Eden just seems like it belongs in an Indy movie...
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:40 PM   #121
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Take a look at this pic I found. Moves the Tree of Life concept from theological theroy into practical archeology, doesn't it???

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Old 01-20-2005, 12:22 PM   #122
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*BUMP*

Because...
1. This is very cool thread.
2. Searching doesn't seem to work past the latest upgrade.
3. Pale Horse's comment in the "Phobia" thread make a LOT more sense if you read this.
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Old 01-21-2005, 02:47 PM   #123
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I might have mentioned this somewere in this thread already, but I'll mention it again anyway.

This idea about the Garden of Eden- when I first, for fun, typed in Indiana Jones 4 in Google back in 1999 and saw somehtings come up, my very first thought was, "He has to go tot he Garden of Eden." I didn't think about the fruit, which would be the artifact, per say. Just the garden. Still really cool concept to me.

He'd have to get past the angel and the sword. He's see "perfection". He'd see the tree, and be doing fine and all, studying it somehow, and then a serpent shows up and tempts him...serpent sounds corny and all, but think of LC, when he's reaching for the grail. We'll get this awesome scene of Indy being Indy, wandering through the garden, studying the tree, just being Indy, thgen suddenly he starts craviung it, wants power, tries to fight it, and eventually wins out. Some awesome dialogue and acting to be done there.

Anyway...just somehting I thought about long ago.
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:39 PM   #124
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Here's a scenario:
Scripture doesn't say how Adam died. Suppose he sensed death approaching and ventured alone back to the garden to eat from the tree of life, and took some fruit for later. Then the sword impaled him, and the great flood buried and preserved his remains.
- - - - - - - -
In the 1950's, Indy acquires dead sea scrolls containing a very detailed description in Genesis of Eden's location. He excavates there and finds:
* the skeletal remains of an 800 year old man, with smooth articulating facets where one rib should be.
* a rusted, dormant sword in his back.
* a leather pouch of seeds clutched in his bony fingers.

Soviets steal the entire find and drive north to Moscow. In Kazakhstan they stop at a mosque, and these atheists wonder if they possess a means to bypass God and acquire eternal life (or youth). They plant the seeds, and over the next 24 hours, the garden of Eden regrows containing "every tree that is pleasant to the sight." (Gen. 2:9).

(I know, lots of CGI here, but why not a fight scene among twisting, tightening vines? And Spielberg loves to feature coastal redwoods where they don't belong geographically (ET, The Lost World). What if a russkie was knocked unconscious over a sapling, and woke up hundreds of feet in the air?)

Anyway, Indy would have to get it on with the girl somewhere in the garden that night. Next day, villian finds the tree of life and eats, but the sword flashes back to life and impales him. Terrified henchman arms a nuke while Indy struggles to free the sword from the creepers. (What's another nuke test in 1950's Kazakhstan, anyway?) I know this sounds like the 'Saucer Men' script, but maybe the vertical flaming sword in the ground helps shield the blast as Indy flees. Which allows another seed to implant, yielding an undeformed Henry III nine months later. Yes, I'm a softie.
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Old 04-26-2005, 01:14 AM   #125
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My guess, if they're sticking to Indy's age and the 1950's theme, is that it has something to do with Asia. Speilberg's already shown a willingness to explore other, more "paganist" religions with the Thugees, so no reason to think he wouldn't explore Buddism, or even Islam. The 50's saw a lot of activity in Asia, such as communist China invading Tibet, so you've A) got your religious aspect, with regard to Dalai Lama/buddist mysteries, and B) your protagonist army of the Chinese to replace Nazis. That would be my first guess. I'm not Buddist, but can anyone think of a prime "artifact" with the same significance as the Ark or Grail?

Hell, I'm still likin' the idea of the Oracle of Delphi or Atlantis, like the books. I'm pretty easy to please though, as long as it's well-written.

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