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Old 01-04-2016, 06:39 PM   #851
Duaner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
To quote Han Solo, "Well, I'm glad you're here to tell us these things!"

Sheesh, what an unbelievably douche-y series of comments.

If we're not allowed to get emotionally invested in fiction or drama, what the **** is the point of engaging with it? The point of theater/drama/art is to evoke emotions and to tap into something.

I'm sorry if that doesn't meet your approved standard. Didn't realize we had to check our emotions against your personal barometer.

Amazingly enough, I'm capable of being sick to my stomach and outraged and heartbroken over things like the Paris attacks and, guess what, I still cried a helluva lot more when my dog passed away. One dog versus hundreds of people.

Guess I'm a horrible person. Or maybe I'm just human.

I also was emotionally invested in the death of Han. Even though Harrison Ford is sleeping on a gigantic pile of money (and weed.)

Gimme a break...

Finally, someone who understands where I was coming from. I'm glad there are others out there who can still be enthralled and taken in by the magic of the movies.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:47 PM   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundshort
If this movie drove you to tears and made you think about that scene for days and it affected that much - then I hope the real world where people died almost Killed you is my point. It is a movie. I was four when I saw Star Wars on opening dAy. I saw every other movie on opening day. Collecting Star Wars toys shaped my childhood. I have found memories of that. That is why I am here. When a fictional character is killed in a movie, no matter how beloved, I said, meh. Bummer Han is dead, now Poe is the sarcastic one.... People need to get a grip this is a movie. Harrison Ford, George Lucas or Disney does not care about you. Just your $$$$

I'm glad you clarified your point. It is so valid.

I can see you were that kid that laughed when Old Yeller died. "Meh, they have a puppy just like him. That hour and a half I just spent getting to know the dog meant nothing to me."

I pity those like you.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:58 PM   #853
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I just figured out why some Raveners are so keen on emo Kylo Ren...

They've all Ben Solo for too long!?!
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Old 01-04-2016, 08:26 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
In shorty's defense, there were 3 versions of the "original"....Thanks George.

Heh...true. Han's motivations don't really change in any of the various edits though.
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:04 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambonius
You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did, because those movies are pretty clear in the fact that Han is leaving to pay Jabba because he wants Jabba to stop hiring people to kill him. Not exactly selfless honor.

Check New Hope, I think the bounty was news to Han when Greedo told him -- and based on the Han's quick sidebar with Chewie in the Cantina, I take Han at his word that he was going to tell Jabba that he'd be able to pay him back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMa
What evidence in TFA is there that he didn't want to make his debts right? How are the two gangs catching up to him before he makes his delivery and gets paid any different than Greedo catching up to him before he gets paid by Luke and Obi-Wan?

For me the difference, is that Solo's lost his swagger in TFA. In New Hope, the debt to Jabba sounds like the exception ("even I get boarded sometimes") but in TFA Han's mishaps have clearly become common place and there's even humor about it.

The point again is that Han went from being a cowboy to being a typical no-good suburban Dad.

One other point, Han's backstory in New Hope serves a purpose: it raises the stakes and apprehension with the viewers as to whether Han will betray Luke and Ben to the Empire. Compare that with Han's TFA backstory -- which is weak and frankly only done to provide a pretext for Han and Chewie carrying those monsters on the freighter -- which I consider one of the weakest scenes in TFA, a real Aliens knockoff. Way to be original JJ and shoehorn that scene in. Bottom line, Han went from ambiguous Bogart like figure in New Hope, to being incompetent sitcom dad in TFA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse

So glad Mr. Nationwide Hummingbird is back healthy with the Broncos. Assuming Pittsburgh gets past Cinci, the Steelers love seeing him in the playoffs.



(Joey Porter is now a linebackers coach with the Steelers)

Last edited by Joe Brody : 01-04-2016 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:20 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
Check New Hope, I think the bounty was news to Han when Greedo told him -- and based on the Han's quick sidebar with Chewie in the Cantina, I take Han at his word that he was going to tell Jabba that he'd be able to pay him back.

Check Empire Strikes Back:

Han: General, I gotta leave I can't stay anymore.
Riekkan: I'm sorry to hear that.
Han: Well, there's a price on my head. If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man.

Princess Leia Organa: I thought you had decided to stay.
Han Solo: Well the bounty hunter we ran into in Ord Mantell changed my mind.
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:34 AM   #857
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I agree that the cuthulu's chasing the gang around the ship was by far the weakest scene in the film. Totally unnecessary.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:08 PM   #858
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What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

Last edited by Z dweller : 01-05-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:46 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaner
Check Empire Strikes Back:

Han: General, I gotta leave I can't stay anymore.
Riekkan: I'm sorry to hear that.
Han: Well, there's a price on my head. If I don't pay off Jabba the Hutt I'm a dead man.

Princess Leia Organa: I thought you had decided to stay.
Han Solo: Well the bounty hunter we ran into in Ord Mantell changed my mind.

Nicely served.
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Old 01-05-2016, 05:53 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

Asking the IMPORTANT questions. I'm too lazy to find the links where Moedred and others took a stab at these. I don't believe they were answered.

Perhaps the Solo's have been smuggling dead bodies to Darth Plagueis, After all, he was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.


Maybe Solo's not dead after all. Maybe him and Qui-Gong will reunite, having been brought back to life

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Old 01-05-2016, 06:32 PM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

[Jokingly] I say the only Han we get is flashbacks to Han's golden years with EMO KYLO REN.

Read through the twitter posts. Hilarious. Kylo won't reach Jar Jar proportions but this is so hilarious it will gain traction. I especially love the Uncle Lando and Rancor posts. I think this is where Roundshort is coming from. Kylo is ridiculous and there are movies to cry over (for example, I cry over flicks like Pride and Prejudice and Good Will Hunting and the opening credits of Lone Survivor) and there are movies to not cry over. But I respect everyone's view and agree movies are for entertainment and entering another world. I just pull back from a world with anyone with hair like EMO Ren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambonius
Nicely served.

(laughing) how do you figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambonius
You must have watched a different original trilogy than I did, because those movies are pretty clear in the fact that Han is leaving to pay Jabba because he wants Jabba to stop hiring people to kill him. Not exactly selfless honor.

You referenced movies plural. I dispatched New Hope -- which leaves Empire. Pray tell, what about the quoted exchange from Empire that supports the inference that you were trying to make that Han lacks honor?

At the end of New Hope Han is a hero, making eyes with the Princess and -- we know from Empire -- joins the Rebellion. This is relevant because we also know from Empire that the Imperial fleet was not destroyed. The existence of the fleet means that the Rebels were no longer safe on the fourth moon since the Empire knew its location. Therefore, it is safe to say that Han participated in the retreat from Yavin and was involved in the move of the main rebel base to Hoth. So along the way he encounters a bounty hunter -- big deal. This clearly prompts him to break from the Rebels at the first opportunity that doesn't compromise his friends.

Han's honor is lacking where here?

Note, on Hoth, Han again is the person that goes back and rescues Luke and saves his life by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).

Last edited by Joe Brody : 01-05-2016 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:32 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
What do you guys think of this article, according to which Kathleen Kennedy said that the entire cast of TFA would return for the next film?

This also supports that theory.

Is Han Solo going to get the Obi-Wan treatment in The Empire Strikes Back?

Would Ford agree to play the spirit?

Has he done that already as part of his deal with Disney?

I think Kathleen Kennedy was just avoiding spoilers. The London premiere was before TFA's wide release. If she would have said "everybody but Harrison is returning" there would have been some backlash.

Also, Max von Sydow was there in London too. So, by that logic, his deceased character would be returning also.

The "Disney Casting" article is not reliable because it reports unconfirmed things as truth. Gugu Mbatha-Raw has not been confirmed as part of the cast, plus it is only assumed (though yes it is probably true) Benicio Del Toro may or may not be a villain. No details on his role have been officially released.

So I would say it's one and done for Harrison Ford.
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:54 PM   #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
... by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).

So, have you seen DiCaprio's flick yet?

Nevermind, back on topic.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:17 PM   #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
I cry over flicks like Pride and Prejudice and Good Will Hunting and the opening credits of Lone Survivor

I cried over Good Will Hunting too - it's very sad to waste two hours of my life like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
Note, on Hoth, Han again is the person that goes back and rescues Luke and saves his life by stuffing him in the gut of Taunton (which, incidentally is a cowboy move if there ever was one).

Well, I somehow got myself in the middle of this debate earlier, but I think I will be best served to refrain from it now. I can't wrap my head around Brody's definition of "cowboy." Stuffing Luke into a Tauntaun is a "cowboy move if there ever was one."
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:08 PM   #865
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Duaner,

[In my best Dude Lebowski] "I like your style, man."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaner
I cried over Good Will Hunting too - it's very sad to waste two hours of my life like that.

Don't knock Good Will Hunting. It's a good film to teach empathy and perspective. I force my kids to watch the Taster Choice scene on the park bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaner
Well, I somehow got myself in the middle of this debate earlier, but I think I will be best served to refrain from it now. I can't wrap my head around Brody's definition of "cowboy." Stuffing Luke into a Tauntaun is a "cowboy move if there ever was one."


The guy may have been french and a holy man but it happened on the high Plains. Cowboy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
So, have you seen DiCaprio's flick yet?

Nevermind, back on topic.

Not yet but I've read a review and know what you're talking about. (Incidentally, over new year's I had a choice: head to NYC and see the film or do a backpacking trip over a snow (and then ice covered) Mount Greylock in Mass with my oldest daughter. No choice. I grabbed the crampons and headed for blustery New England -- and thankfully no animals were harmed during the trip.

As for Han and the Taunton, I was hoping you'd come back with the clip of the scene to complement the one you posted above of Han shooting at Vader (which is one of my favorite all time whiplash moments in film -- I love it when a writer comes up with something like that and the director pulls off the immediacy of the moment. It's one of the great moments in film. Han is the man -- or was the man before TFA).
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:23 PM   #866
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I never said Han lacks honor in general, I was arguing that his reasons for wanting to pay off Jabba specifically are all about saving his own hide, not because paying off Jabba is "the right thing to do." That's absurd; Jabba is a scumbag.
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:50 AM   #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
As for Han and the Taunton, I was hoping you'd come back with the clip of the scene to complement the one you posted above of Han shooting at Vader.

This scene is hardly a western.



But how odd that the non-jedi above can now be compared to the non-jedi below.



Maybe there's a crossover in the works? You never know with Disney.



Boy, as a mod, I've really thrashed this particular page all to hell. Sorry folks.

Back to the regularly scheduled discussion about Star Wars: VII, TFA
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:04 AM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
You referenced movies plural. I dispatched New Hope -- which leaves Empire. Pray tell, what about the quoted exchange from Empire that supports the inference that you were trying to make that Han lacks honor?
What about the exchange from The Force Awakens supports the inference that Han lacks honor any more than the exchanges from ANH or ESB do?
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:16 PM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMa
What about the exchange from The Force Awakens supports the inference that Han lacks honor any more than the exchanges from ANH or ESB do?

My hang-up is that TFA exposition has Han not just mucking up multiple deals but also jokes about his shortcomings as if they were the norm. This is a big departure from Episode IV and V Han where he had swagger and was just dogged by the one mis-step with Jabba's cargo. I took issue with Lamonious's "Not exactly selfless honor" line because I don't think Han was motivated by fear to repay Jabba -- I think it was his intention all along.

Taking a step back, the diminution of Harrison Ford's Han Solo and Indiana Jones characters in the 80's from a bad-ass rogue to luckier-than-good-buffoon personifies the end of the big screen hero archetype. Compare the Han we see in the Cantina, on the Death Star, on Hoth, on Bespin to the first blind and then bumbling Han we see in Jabba's palace and on Endor. Compare Indy sitting with Belloq in the Marhala Bar to Indy pouting with his Dad on the Zeppelin out of Germany. In both franchises Ford's characters start bad ass but end up not so much. TFA seems to be a new underserved low. . . . .

To quote Paul Simon, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

Anyway -- back to the main topic: why did JJ Abrams foist Kylo Ren on us? While not as clever as Tarantino's analysis behind the true meaning of 'Top Gun', I think I've figured out JJ Abrams twisted plan behind the ridiculous Kylo Ren and Han Solo's pathetic ending. George Lucas doesn't like to admit it but let's face it -- Harrison Ford is Lucas's Bobby De Niro. Whether it be American Graffiti, Star Wars or Indiana Jones, Harrison Ford is George Lucas's onscreen avatar. As a huge geek, JJ Abrams must have been crushed by Lucas's Star War's prequels -- with the silly Anakin Skywalker whining about his emotions. Now bear in mind, we know from the Star Trek reboot that JJ Abrams knows how to deliver a flawless reboot. So why (and this is what has been gnawing at me) would he make the same mistake twice with the introduction of ridiculous Anakin-ish Kylo Ren?

The answer: TFA is the geek's revenge on George Lucas for him foisting the prequels on us. Think of it like this: TFA Han Solo = George Lucas. Kylo Ren = the prequels. Kylo Ren dispatches Han, just as the prequels took down Lucas's stature in the industry. Watch the Lucas interview Moedred just posted -- Lucas loves to tell us that Star Wars is about more than space ships. Well I only partially seriously submit that the TFA is about something more too. Now TFA provides a new mythos: the demise of the fallen creator. Et tu, Brute?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
This scene is hardly a western.

Speaking of the Lucas interview, in it he talks about how Star Wars was a vehicle to re-introduce all the mythologies. As I've said, Han is a cowboy. I submit that the opening scene of Han and Luke on patrol riding Tauntons is meant to evoke cowboys riding out to check the fencing. Don't get hung up the details and Han's use of the light saber -- I'm focused on the survival aspect of using the carcass of a beast of burden for warmth.

Last edited by Joe Brody : 01-06-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:53 AM   #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
As I've said, Han is a cowboy. I submit that the opening scene of Han and Luke on patrol riding Tauntons is meant to evoke cowboys riding out to check the fencing. Don't get hung up the details and Han's use of the light saber -- I'm focused on the survival aspect of using the carcass of a beast of burden for warmth.

Your starting to give mercenaries a bad name. Talk like this will wind up forcing me to break down TFA far more than it deserves. But I see where you're going with this and I wonder, if ANH revived mythology to a new generation, where do we go in 2016 to restoring the next generation to understanding the world is bigger than themselves?

Your insight yet again has given me much to ponder on.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:42 PM   #871
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http://www.wired.com/2015/12/star-wars-leak-king
Interview with the webmaster of leak central, makingstarwars.net.
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Old 01-15-2016, 03:45 AM   #872
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Despite being irrevocably linked to Star Wars (no, don't ask), I've never been much of a fan. I've seen the prequels once in the theatre; haven't seen the originals in almost twenty years; and have never read a book/comic/whatever that dealt with the expanded universe or even the original characters. I'm okay with this. So it was with some reluctance that I was dragged off to the theatre over opening weekend.

That said, The Force Awakens was a solid piece of movie making. Rey was fabulous. Finn was annoying. So much so that I'm glad that he's not a Jedi. I even liked Kylo Ren right up until he took his helmet off. By the time they got to that cantina-like place I couldn't help but think "Is that the same lake they filmed Harry Potter on? It certainly looks like it." Oh, and I guess Han Yolo and Chewbacca are now comedic relief?

Speaking of Han Yolo: How many additional X-Wing pilots is he indirectly responsible for killing by failing a rather simple sabotage mission? I was dearly hoping that Kylo would end my pain by cleaving Yolo in twain. Hey, that rhymes.

As something of a trained swordsman, I have a massive problem with the final fight as the Starkiller planet is collapsing. Force attuned or not, Ren should have made relatively short work of both of them. But then R2-D2 came out of his low power mode, Skywalker finally(!) made an appearance and I forgot all about it.

The guy in the above gif was cool too. But what's the point of encumbering troops with body armor if a crappy blaster pistol will put you down in a single shot?
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:25 AM   #873
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I've figured it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Saboteur
Despite being irrevocably linked to Star Wars (no, don't ask), I've never been much of a fan.

it all makes sense now. Le Saboteur is GEORGE LUCAS




...chuckle...
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:44 PM   #874
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Advice from the original cast at 4:38:
Carrie Fisher: "Don't go through the crew like wildfire."
Harrison Ford: "Whaaaaaat?"

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Old 01-26-2016, 05:34 PM   #875
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http://www.slashfilm.com/force-awakens-changes
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-t...deleted-scenes

Lucasfilm will reveal these story ideas and deleted scenes in dribs and drabs for decades, so why not read about it all, now.
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