Star Wars Prequel Trilogy
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Indy's_main_man said:
Even thought I'm not much of a G. Lucas fan anymore since he slightly damaged the SW trilogy with the prequals (EP1 especially), I wouldn't say it's all for the money. When you think of it Lucas hasn't made many films, he could have made millions of SW films taking place somewhere in the infinite SW timeline. What I believe is thet this guy just forgot how to write (or forgot to hire a writer to write his wonderful ideas). Plus what would you do if you owned the SW franchise? I'd go nuts...like him.
Well.. hey.. I'm not going to disagree with you.. but Indy is a creation of both Spielberg AND Lucas.
And that's a fact.
I have no problem with Spielberg and no problem with Lucas. They both made some great movies.. and they both made some 'not-so-great' movies. But hell... nobody's perfect.
And that's a fact.
I have no problem with Spielberg and no problem with Lucas. They both made some great movies.. and they both made some 'not-so-great' movies. But hell... nobody's perfect.
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Kate said:
It's not yoda that ruled. It was Frank Oz, who did the voice. He also did the voice of fozzy bear on the muppets. Plus he just directed "the stepford Wives"
back to the topic at hand, yes, Lucas thought up Indy. However, he was just the producer. Spielberg was the main man. It seems George has forgotten that with this whole Indy 4 script rewrite thing. The point is that Lucas didn't have a reason, other then money, to make the prequels.
Ayrun , name a bad Spielberg movie
To me, Lucas reminds the type of a fan fiction writer who puts his works in databases and asks for feedback... but awaits nothing but positive comments, e.g. the type of fellow to whom it's enough that he himself likes his works.
Now, if you go in and tell him it's decent stuff, maybe even good, but there are points here and there you could add in more or take out or edit somehow generally to make it even more better... and he attacks you, telling you something about his artistical liberties or separate point of views... or practically says out loud its his story, not yours.
But these guys still tend to do it because they like what they do and enjoy it... so they're not that bad.
Of course, can't really say Lucas would have done exactly something like this, but if he would like to please the audience more, it could be useful for him to consult another professional writer who is in reputation of being a good one. Not because he thinks no one can know SW better than he does, but to get hints about how to polish the basic aspects of structure and such every piece of fiction has.
Now, if you go in and tell him it's decent stuff, maybe even good, but there are points here and there you could add in more or take out or edit somehow generally to make it even more better... and he attacks you, telling you something about his artistical liberties or separate point of views... or practically says out loud its his story, not yours.
But these guys still tend to do it because they like what they do and enjoy it... so they're not that bad.
Of course, can't really say Lucas would have done exactly something like this, but if he would like to please the audience more, it could be useful for him to consult another professional writer who is in reputation of being a good one. Not because he thinks no one can know SW better than he does, but to get hints about how to polish the basic aspects of structure and such every piece of fiction has.
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Indy's_main_man said:
Lucas made the original Star Wars trilogy and contributed (in my mind far more than 'just a producer') a lot to the Indiana Jones movies.
He may mess(ed) up the prequels (although the opinions differ on that), but I believe he still earns some respect.
Fisk and Finn are right.
Lucas doesn't need to make these prequels for the money. He does it because he feels it was the right moment to make them.
Indy's_main_man said:
And please don't use the SW prequels created by Lucas to put Spielberg on a pedestal. Spielberg isn't perfect, nor are his movies.
Besides; a 'bad' movie doesn't exist? Yes, I know I answered the question anyway.. but it's simply a matter of taste.. Even the worst movie around has at least 1 fan.
Indy's_main_man said:
There is a "prequel" to Raiders that is generally considered by many mainstream movie critics as a mediocre movie... so we should not wait for people to say that it's all great with Indy either (if we go outside this gig, of course).
Now, I can't remember who was the name of the reviewer who put this in when ToD was doing a screening in telly.
Lucas knew how to make bad movies even back then... or at least movies that were misunderstood.
<small>Yes, ToD is a great adventure movie, at least compared to the ones we've had lately... and I still find even <i>these</i> decent.</small>
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Indy's_main_man
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Trust me...I have no problem with misunderstood movies. I think I've stated before that one of my favorite movies was "Toys"...that was panned by the critics but it's whismey has developed a sort of fan base. I also like "death to smoochy" but that's a whole different story.
I'm not using Lucas to make spielberg seem godly or anything. But you have to admit, Lucas as a director, hasn;t made many solid films besides thre trilogy.
I'm not using Lucas to make spielberg seem godly or anything. But you have to admit, Lucas as a director, hasn;t made many solid films besides thre trilogy.
Renderking Fisk said:
Okay, If I have the chance, I'll have a look.
But even if I hate it? that doesn't mean I take back what I said. (sorry.. I'm kind of stubborn)
Somewhere out there, there might be someone who likes it.. or at least doesn't find it all that bad.
btw.. I looked at us.imdb .. but can't seem to find it...
You know, Im actually looking forward to seeing Episode 3. Call me crazy, but I have a feeling this film may be pretty good and restore our faith in the series. I mean this is after all the last Star Wars that's ever gonna be released and maybe Lucas has finally noticed the voices of disappointment from us fans over episodes 1 and 2 to go the extra mile and try to make the film good. I'm sad at the same time that this will be the end of the film series. I can't think of a time in my life when Star Wars (and Indiana Jones) wasn't part of my vocabulary. I look forward to seeing this like Batman Begins in '05.
On a further note, I've grown to like Attack of the Clones. It's flawed allright but I find stuff to enjoy about it.
On a further note, I've grown to like Attack of the Clones. It's flawed allright but I find stuff to enjoy about it.
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Well? I don't hold that high hopes for episode 3.
It might be better than the 2 others, but how great this third one may be; it cannot make up for what's missing is the other two parts?
Don't get me wrong; episode 1 and 2 are good movies.. and despite the fact that we actually should not compare them with the originals (because they're all part of the same story) many of us do. And if you compare them, the originals ? for most of us ? are way better then the 2 prequels.
I only wonder if the third part is able to link the prequels with the originals. That the next time we speak about Star Wars we're speaking of all six of them.. or if we're still dividing them into 2 parts.
It might be better than the 2 others, but how great this third one may be; it cannot make up for what's missing is the other two parts?
Don't get me wrong; episode 1 and 2 are good movies.. and despite the fact that we actually should not compare them with the originals (because they're all part of the same story) many of us do. And if you compare them, the originals ? for most of us ? are way better then the 2 prequels.
I only wonder if the third part is able to link the prequels with the originals. That the next time we speak about Star Wars we're speaking of all six of them.. or if we're still dividing them into 2 parts.
There are no words to describe how much these movies suck.
I'm a huge fan of the original series but the prequels have been largely lame. I do find some things about them I like but the bad far outweighs the good. As loyal as I am to the overall story I can't overlook poor film making.
Reasons why I don't like them:
The Scripts:
Two of the worst scripst written for major motion pictures in many, many years if not ever. There's no excuse for this either. Lucas should have torn down his ego a bit and realized what a poor writer he is overall. He should have created a storyline to follow with the basics of the plot and hired a team of great writers to fill in the details and make a good script.
The Acting:
Incredibly poor acting by most. You can excuse some of the actors like Ewan, Jackson and a few others due to poor scripts as mentioned earlier but Hayden and Natalie's acting jobs couldn't be saved by the best script in the world. One thing that made me realize Lucas went for style over substance with a few of the actors cast was a tidbit from the Phantom Menace documentaries. One of them shows the final decision process in casting Jake Lloyd in the role of young Anakin. It is painfully obvious to me that the other kid could actually act. Jake could not, period, and no one has ever been able to convince me otherwise. Jake appears to have had the right look and thus got the part. There were many stories about how hard it was for Lucas to get a decent performance out of Jake once cameras were rolling and this didn't suprise me one bit. He also hasn't gotten an acting job since then so I rest my case.
Directing/FX:
Too much CGI. Many scenes which are meant to be impressive end up looking far too cartoonish. I really feel that Lucas should have lightened up on trying to show everything we missed from the first movies and just made it more of an insular affair. One thing that could have helped is if he had simply integrated more real sets into the production and had more of a balance between them and CGI effects. LOTR is a great example of balancing the two. I still shudder at many scenes that look like blue screen nightmares such as the part where Padme falls from the ship in AOTC.
Overall these movies have shown that Lucas isn't really the genius that we all thought he was. In fact, if you look at his track record he isn't very original overall. Both Indiana Jones and Star Wars were updates of older ideas and themes though done very well for modern audiences. His best movie ideas have always fared better when he didn't direct them himself.
Rant over.
I'm a huge fan of the original series but the prequels have been largely lame. I do find some things about them I like but the bad far outweighs the good. As loyal as I am to the overall story I can't overlook poor film making.
Reasons why I don't like them:
The Scripts:
Two of the worst scripst written for major motion pictures in many, many years if not ever. There's no excuse for this either. Lucas should have torn down his ego a bit and realized what a poor writer he is overall. He should have created a storyline to follow with the basics of the plot and hired a team of great writers to fill in the details and make a good script.
The Acting:
Incredibly poor acting by most. You can excuse some of the actors like Ewan, Jackson and a few others due to poor scripts as mentioned earlier but Hayden and Natalie's acting jobs couldn't be saved by the best script in the world. One thing that made me realize Lucas went for style over substance with a few of the actors cast was a tidbit from the Phantom Menace documentaries. One of them shows the final decision process in casting Jake Lloyd in the role of young Anakin. It is painfully obvious to me that the other kid could actually act. Jake could not, period, and no one has ever been able to convince me otherwise. Jake appears to have had the right look and thus got the part. There were many stories about how hard it was for Lucas to get a decent performance out of Jake once cameras were rolling and this didn't suprise me one bit. He also hasn't gotten an acting job since then so I rest my case.
Directing/FX:
Too much CGI. Many scenes which are meant to be impressive end up looking far too cartoonish. I really feel that Lucas should have lightened up on trying to show everything we missed from the first movies and just made it more of an insular affair. One thing that could have helped is if he had simply integrated more real sets into the production and had more of a balance between them and CGI effects. LOTR is a great example of balancing the two. I still shudder at many scenes that look like blue screen nightmares such as the part where Padme falls from the ship in AOTC.
Overall these movies have shown that Lucas isn't really the genius that we all thought he was. In fact, if you look at his track record he isn't very original overall. Both Indiana Jones and Star Wars were updates of older ideas and themes though done very well for modern audiences. His best movie ideas have always fared better when he didn't direct them himself.
Rant over.
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I
Indy's_main_man
Guest
He makes a good point. Lucas is turning into an eccentric old coot. hiding in his house rewriting the script hoping all the fans won't dislike him...even though a lot do.