TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > The Films > Indiana Jones 5
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-27-2005, 08:21 PM   #51
Paden
IndyFan
 
Paden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Desert Wastes
Posts: 853
I know that the plan has been for Indiana to revisit/encounter again the women from his past in Indy IV, but personally I think it would be most interesting if the relationship between Indy and Marion was explored. There are a lot of interesting elements there, especially the relationship they had prior to ROTLA, and how that relationship, and subsequent falling out, influenced Indy's relationship with his longtime mentor, Abner. The relationship has a great deal of "water under the bridge" and it would be interesting to see it reach a final resolution, whatever that resolution might be. Comparitively, at least for me, Indy's relationship with Willie seems like a shallow fling.
Paden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 01:00 PM   #52
Finn
Moderator
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,959
Not much to say to this subject, 'cept that if Indy IV hits enough bucks, trying to pump more out of the franchise is more like a law of nature...

And as far as the mysterious character of Aaron H goes, I reckon he's the guy who empties the wastepaper bin.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 01:28 PM   #53
IAdventurer01
IndyFan
 
IAdventurer01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wish I knew....
Posts: 1,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by temple of john
She is the only character that was ever put with Indy who seemed to have any chemistry with him.

That's an understatement. Willie was annoying and Elsa was a Nazi. Kind of a no-brainer there.
IAdventurer01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 04:12 PM   #54
Garrett
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 175
I liked Elsa... I thought she was perfect for that role. Willie, on the other hand, was very annoying.
Garrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 04:28 PM   #55
OhioJones
IndyFan
 
OhioJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 351
I liked Elsa also.

I wouldnt mind seeing a new trilogy but I know it wont happen.

It would be sweet though.
OhioJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 04:54 PM   #56
Paden
IndyFan
 
Paden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Desert Wastes
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by temple of john
Yeah, it was kind of amazing that he went from Marion, who did click so well with Indy, to Willie and Elsa, who had no buisness being in the film. What about Indy just being solo? Haven't heard too many people talk about that.

Frankly, I think that's a very fitting suggestion. The great adventurer coming to the twilight of his days...alone. It makes sense that, if the film is intended to bring closure to the series, Indiana might well be focused on reassessing his past relationships, and coming to peace with himself. Settling with what has gone before, rather than pursuing something new.
Paden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005, 04:54 PM   #57
Johan
IndyFan
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 1,314
You can't be an indy fan and say they had no buisiness being in the film
Annoying or not...they worked well for what they were suppose to do...Willie was meant to have that annoying charachter, the movie would not have worked near as well without her type of charachter
Johan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2005, 08:33 AM   #58
Garrett
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJohan
You can't be an indy fan and say they had no buisiness being in the film
Annoying or not...they worked well for what they were suppose to do...Willie was meant to have that annoying charachter, the movie would not have worked near as well without her type of charachter

very true. she played the part well. I guess I just don't like much about TOD.
Garrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2005, 01:52 PM   #59
Paden
IndyFan
 
Paden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Desert Wastes
Posts: 853
I may have a limited perception here, but I think part of my difficulty with Wille stems from the fact that I frequently viewed her as comic relief. Having said that, to me it seemed that her character was somewhat shallow, almost as though she was more of a function of the script rather than a fleshed-out, living character. By comparison Marion, with her backstory and conflicted emotions about Jones, was a very credible character.
Paden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2005, 11:28 PM   #60
OhioJones
IndyFan
 
OhioJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 351
Willies character was just fine. She changed throughout the movie. She learned from the adventure and was bettered because of it. If anything she was definatley intresting.

The remarks that you have against Willie and TOD are clearly because you just dont like TOD. Marion wasnt all that great either, and got anoying every once and a while too. I mean for god sake she liked Belloq just for getting her drunk.

Anyway my point is, your opinion is obviously going to be derrogatory on Willie because you dislike TOD.

I personally enjoyed the film, and Willies character.

The film worked, it was diffrent, but it worked.
OhioJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2005, 01:15 AM   #61
IAdventurer01
IndyFan
 
IAdventurer01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wish I knew....
Posts: 1,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paden
Frankly, I think that's a very fitting suggestion. The great adventurer coming to the twilight of his days...alone. It makes sense that, if the film is intended to bring closure to the series, Indiana might well be focused on reassessing his past relationships, and coming to peace with himself. Settling with what has gone before, rather than pursuing something new.

Personally, I think he'd be happy to actually keep evidence of one of his amazing discoveries.


Also, I think Willie and Elsa played thier roles just fine. However, of the three Marion was the only one that really seemed fitting for Indy. (Elsa was alright too, before he knew she was a Nazi. )
IAdventurer01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2005, 10:34 AM   #62
Jay R. Zay
IndyFan
 
Jay R. Zay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,371
"I mean for god sake she liked Belloq just for getting her drunk."

in this sequence she gave him alcohol to escape. she knew she could take much more of it than him. you didn't really understand this movie, did you?

ToD was a movie with a very cheap and obvious humor, neither dry nor subtle nor clever. slapstick humor. and willies character contributed a lot to this impression. the rest of ToD is depressive and dark. these are the reasons why so many people dislike ToD. and willie.
Jay R. Zay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #63
Moedred
Administrator
 
Moedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4,882
A few years ago I was chatting with Aaron H about his information source. It was a digital document, lost unfortunately. He recalled:
Quote:
It was about a half dozen pages, they were scanned, poor quality. Seemed legit, as it was from a source inside Paramount.

Two or three pages for were just parts of a scene, never any setup or great detail. Most of what I learned was filled in by my source.

The first scene was Indy bumped into "female student" at the college, she was looking for him. There is a bit of banter and it is obvious that Indy was flirting, but she's questioning him about Eden but then the scene jumped to Marion & Willie meeting/fighting with Indy...the girl wasn't present...then it goes to Indy and Deserie (I think was her name) they're in a cave or ruins or something, they're looking for the something to open the entrance to Eden Deserie reveals that she is Marion's daughter and that is when they're attacked by Russians.
That is where it ended.
Moedred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 11:29 PM   #64
Indy's brother
IndyFan
 
Indy's brother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In the Map Room playing with a laser pointer
Posts: 3,029
So, the Garden of Eden was kicked around as an Indy plot device, and since this is posted in an Indy 5 thread, am I to read into this that you're speculating that the idea lives on, then? Or simply clarifying the previous convo? Or both?
Indy's brother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 12:20 AM   #65
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,616
The Garden of Eden?

It'd better be an alien-created hunting ground!
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 05:20 AM   #66
Stoo
IndyFan
 
Stoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 8,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
A few years ago I was chatting with Aaron H about his information source.
I remember that Aaron H knew about the temple being a flying saucer years before "Crystal Skull" hit the theatres. (He even blacked out the info with the spoiler tags.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron H
...Deserie reveals that she is Marion's daughter...
Who would be the father of Marion's daughter?
Stoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 05:34 AM   #67
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Who would be the father of Marion's daughter?

Mutt (if Shia had his way, that is).
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 05:55 AM   #68
Violet
Moderator Emeritus
 
Violet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Host City of the 2018 Commonwealth Games, Australia
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Who would be the father of Marion's daughter?

Indy was, if I remember rightly (I'll see if I can dig it up somewhere). It was confirmed in the KOTCS 2 disc edition, that they had initially gone for a long lost daughter idea first before pursuing the idea of a son (apparently a Spielberg idea)- the son initally being a nerd, then eventually turned into the greaser we know. So this confirmed info would fit into the hints from Aaron H.

Eden continues to be unconfirmed, however I always go back to that Spielberg hint, that the artifact had "something to do with Adam and Eve." Not exactly a long shot from being virtually confirmed as an idea that got thrown around. I do wonder which of the writers had written the screenplay up for this idea?

In terms of an Indy 5, if there were to be one, the first story of the bible being the last of Indy seems rather logical (Though I leave the convincing to Pale- he's got the best arguments for this).
Violet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 06:17 AM   #69
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet
In terms of an Indy 5, if there were to be one, the first story of the bible being the last of Indy seems rather logical (Though I leave the convincing to Pale- he's got the best arguments for this).

If they played it straight then it's possibly the worst idea I could ever imagine. One fairy tale too many, which would confirm that all the characters in Indyverse were the result of inter-breeding.

However, I doubt they'd play it straight. Nothing's ever that simple in Indyland. Apart from the aliens, that is. And after the aliens everything is more open to suspicion than before.

Though, where was Eden? The land of bounty to the south of Egypt? It's a valid location to visit.

Yet, so are heaven and hell, as concepts of hospitable and inhospitable other dimensions. The latter would be the more interesting in a Lovecraftian sense.
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 07:00 AM   #70
Stoo
IndyFan
 
Stoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Neuchâtel, Switzerland (Canadian from Montreal)
Posts: 8,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet
Indy was, if I remember rightly (I'll see if I can dig it up somewhere). It was confirmed in the KOTCS 2 disc edition, that they had initially gone for a long lost daughter idea first before pursuing the idea of a son (apparently a Spielberg idea)- the son initally being a nerd, then eventually turned into the greaser we know. So this confirmed info would fit into the hints from Aaron H.
I'm aware of the abandoned idea of a daughter but found it odd that Aaron wrote "Marion's daughter" instead of "Indy's daughter". If Indy was the father (in this case) he must've have kept her identity a secret from Miss Ravenwood.

Did Marion not know she gave birth? Was the child put up for adoption, kidnapped or run away from home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smiff
Though, where was Eden? The land of bounty to the south of Egypt? It's a valid location to visit.
Wasn't Eden supposed to be in Mesopotamia (Iraq) like Babylon?
Stoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 07:36 AM   #71
Montana Smith
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Wasn't Eden supposed to be in Mesopotamia (Iraq) like Babylon?

Maybe. But from my reading on ancient Egypt Eden seemed to be a very real paradise to the south, the green lands from which the Egyptians brought animals for their zoos and palaces.

Egypt seems so central to the origins of certain Biblical myths.

There's debate on whether Eden was Ethiopia or Mesopotomia.
Montana Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 07:59 PM   #72
Archaeos
IndyFan
 
Archaeos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Not The British Museum
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Maybe. But from my reading on ancient Egypt Eden seemed to be a very real paradise to the south, the green lands from which the Egyptians brought animals for their zoos and palaces.

Egypt seems so central to the origins of certain Biblical myths.

There's debate on whether Eden was Ethiopia or Mesopotomia.

Many animals for Ancient Egyptian ménageries - found either mummified or as skeletal remains - came from the Nilo-Saharan Kingdom of Kush (which much later conquered Egypt and ruled as the 25th Dynasty of it). It became known as Nubia in later Antiquity, and is today's Northern Sudan.

Anthropologically, the cradle of humanity is regarded as further south, around the Tanganyika provinces of today's Tansania (or German East Africa ): Ngorongoro, Serengeti, Arusha, Kilimanjaro, Tsavo etc.

Archaeologically, he cradle of civilisation has been seen in Mesopotamia, indeed, although the discovery of the Göbekli Tepe site in south-eastern Turkey, dating back 12 millennia, is currently leading to a radical re-evaluation of where first civilisationary steps were taken by hunter-gatherer/farmer-settlers.

I think all locations would be cool for Indy to visit in a potential Indy V.

It's also a massive shame that the Indy's Daughter idea was dropped, with Marion part of this triangle (but rather not necessarily with her being the mother... loads of plot potential). Personally, I would have loved to see Diane Krüger playing Indiana's daughter.

Last edited by Archaeos : 05-31-2012 at 08:08 PM.
Archaeos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:36 AM.