Favorite parts of the Darabont script
- Thread starter Robyn
- Start date
I think that the tank chase and the battle in the city were the top action scenes of the Monkey King script. Columbus likes to write over-the-top action sequences and then you have to cut. Is the same case with the Darabont script. A first draft needs to be polished because is easy to write anything exciting but you have to think about budget and the running time of the picture.
I like to read Darabont's script, it's very entertaining, but Koepp made a final shooting script, combining elements and condensing scenes. That's very difficult to do.
I like to read Darabont's script, it's very entertaining, but Koepp made a final shooting script, combining elements and condensing scenes. That's very difficult to do.
Lance Quazar
Well-known member
Wilhelm said:
Darabont is just as much of a pro as Koepp is and certainly knows how to do those "difficult" things you allude to. Coming up with a great first draft is often a much harder creative challenge.
Specifically, there is nothing remotely "high budget" about the rooftop chase, it was just imaginatively conceived. Spielberg certainly deserves the lion's share of the blame for the slack, cartoonish and generally uninvolving action sequences in KOTCS, of course.
So it's easy to see the "perfect" version of Daranbont's script in your head.
But that script is full of engaging and well-conceived action sequences. In KOTCS, what do we get? A motorcycle tearing through a quad and a couple of jeeps rattling around the jungle. That's basically it. Sigh.
Darth Vile
New member
Lance Quazar said:
I liked the rooftop scene specifically because it was reminiscent of Alfred Hitchcock movies. However, I'm not convinced it's anything more imaginative than what appeared in KOTCS or the other movies. There is also no guarantee of course that if it were filmed, it would be any better than what appeared in KOTCS.
Lance Quazar said:
I think it's somewhat easier to imagine an action scene from the printed page than it is to translate it successfully to the big screen. I think the more simple a premise, the easier it translates to the screen. Some ideas are best left to the imagination... I certainly thought the jungle chase was better on the printed page.
Lance Quazar said:
I'm not sure that's strictly correct... Apart from the roof top chase (already mentioned as an example I liked), little of the action in the 'City of the God's' script did it for me. Also, I think KOTCS had a lot more action scenes than you acknowledge in your post. Off the top of my head I can remember the warehouse, Doomtown, motorcycle chase, the cemetery/Orellana's tomb, the jungle chase, ants, the waterfalls and Akator. You may not like the action, but KOTCS action/non action ratio is pretty similar to what went before (and what appears in the 'City of the Gods' script).
Lance Quazar
Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
Doomtown is just a part of the whole warehouse sequence. It also has no real "action" in it, just a small degree of running.
Darth Vile said:
mentioned...
Darth Vile said:
Fair enough. I forgot to mention that 6 second action sequence in the cemetery.
Darth Vile said:
Generally part of the same extended sequence, also mentioned by me.
Darth Vile said:
Aside from running down stairs, what other action is there in Akator?
Darth Vile said:
No, not really. There is nothing comparable to the big action set pieces from the first three films - truck, mine cart, tank.
I was actually astonished while watching the film that there wasn't another huge action sequence in the movie and that it all ended with the jungle chase. I really do feel like the movie, among many other sins, is deficient in that area, particularly when compared to its predecessors. Maybe not by a huge margin, but it is noticeable.
Darth Vile
New member
Lance Quazar said:
Oh come on... From your definition you could claim that the action in Club Obi-Wan to the jump from the plane in the rubber raft (TOD) is all part of the same sequence... or that all the action in Brunwald castle + motorbike chase (TLC) are the same sequence too. I think you'd agree that those action scenes are distinct and separate.
Lance Quazar said:
I wasn't aware that action was defined and measured by the second/minute... but I'd say that the cemetery sequence (including interior) is comparable to something like the Venice catacombs action sequence (which is mostly around building suspense, rather than bare knuckle fighting).
Lance Quazar said:
Again, if we play by your rules, that would mean that the majority of action that takes place in an Indy movie is derived from just one or two “extended sequences”. If that’s the case, then I’ll claim that in Raiders, all the action that takes place from the interior of the Well of the Souls to the truck chase (including the fight beneath the flying wing), is all part of the same sequence.
Lance Quazar said:
You mean besides the angry natives, the aliens, Spalko getting fried and the whole pyramid collapsing and turning into a huge swirly whirly UFO thing??? Apart from that I'm struggling to think of any...
Lance Quazar said:
I’d respectfully disagree. Nearly the last quarter of KOTCS is wall-to-wall action. It’s individual segments may not be as “standout” as the tank chase from LC (which I personally think is the best action sequence in any Indy movie), or as interesting as a fight to the death on the rope bridge (TOD)... but nonetheless, KOTCS does contain it’s fair share of action. If anything, I think the last quarter of KOTCS is too fast… which in turn doesn’t allow for the build (and pay off) in emotional depth between Indy/Mutt and Indy/Mac.
Lance Quazar
Well-known member
DarthVile,
I agree that not everything needs to be wall to wall fighting or shooting to qualify as exciting and entertaining and that suspense and tension can be created without distinctly physical fighting. Venice catacombs, going into the Hovitos temple, the Grail temple, etc.
So, yes, the cemetery in KOTCS follows that tradition. Only it doesn't do it particularly well. It's not awful, it's one of the film's better sequences, but it could have been MUCH better.
I definitely think that Doomtown is part of the opening prologue, which is one large sequence. It ends only after the bomb goes off and we cut to Indy being interrogated by the government.
Similarly, the other prologues are compromised of many component elements, are still part of the same big scene. Raiders ends with the plane flying off, as does TOD and then there is a jump in time and location. LC ends with the Coronado sinking....and KOTCS ends with Doomtown.
And here is where we agree to disagree...
Though I haven't seen the film in a year, I was amazed by how LITTLE happened in the last quarter of the film. How there was so little action and so little suspense. Really, I found Akator to be an extraordinary anticlimax, ending the film on a sagging, slack note, not an energetic high like the other films.
By the time the temple collapsed and the "ship" flew away, I was unbelievably bored.
I agree that not everything needs to be wall to wall fighting or shooting to qualify as exciting and entertaining and that suspense and tension can be created without distinctly physical fighting. Venice catacombs, going into the Hovitos temple, the Grail temple, etc.
So, yes, the cemetery in KOTCS follows that tradition. Only it doesn't do it particularly well. It's not awful, it's one of the film's better sequences, but it could have been MUCH better.
I definitely think that Doomtown is part of the opening prologue, which is one large sequence. It ends only after the bomb goes off and we cut to Indy being interrogated by the government.
Similarly, the other prologues are compromised of many component elements, are still part of the same big scene. Raiders ends with the plane flying off, as does TOD and then there is a jump in time and location. LC ends with the Coronado sinking....and KOTCS ends with Doomtown.
And here is where we agree to disagree...
Though I haven't seen the film in a year, I was amazed by how LITTLE happened in the last quarter of the film. How there was so little action and so little suspense. Really, I found Akator to be an extraordinary anticlimax, ending the film on a sagging, slack note, not an energetic high like the other films.
By the time the temple collapsed and the "ship" flew away, I was unbelievably bored.
Darth Vile
New member
Lance Quazar said:
So I think you are talking more quality than quantity there... which is something else altogether. And as already stated, yes, I'd agree that the Jungle chase in KOTCS (for example), isn't as good as the tank chase in TLC or the truck chase in Raiders... but for me the Jungle chase/Ants sequence is better than the equivalent sections in TOD. Alternatively, I much prefer the cemetery/Orellana's tomb scenes to any of the Venice action scenes (TLC). So ultimately for me… some bits are better, some bits are the same, and some are inferior.
Lance Quazar said:
So I'd agree that Doomtown is part of the prologue... I think what we were debating was the criteria for scene versus section. For me, Doomtown is a distinct and separate action sequence within the prologue (there is both a jump in time and location which denotes this). Also, I'd argue the case for KOTCS actually having the best, and most action filled prologue after Raiders (which isn't an easy task).
Lance Quazar said:
In essence, I’m not sure we disagree that much on this point (it’s probably more the how and whys?) If you let me expand… Overall, I think the ending of KOTCS (Akator section) is probably the weakest of all 4 movies to date. I think this is largely due to Spielberg/Lucas attempting an equal distribution of both the action and the emotional/philosophical elements, to create the ultimate dénouement (it must have looked great on paper). Unfortunately by doing this, it shortchanges on both the action and emotion e.g. decaying/burning villain and collapsing temple = same ole’, same ole’. Mac dying and “Knowledge was their treasure” = same ole’ same ole.
In comparison, TOD largely ignored the emotional/philosophical elements in favor of an outstanding set piece atop a rope bridge. TLC’s dénouement, with its largely pedestrian action in the final act, was underpinned by the conclusion of the emotional journey… “Let it go” i.e. true wealth/treasure is largely spiritual in nature. Indy loses the Grail, but finds his father etc.
I genuinely believe that several small (but significant) changes in the final reel, would have vastly improved KOTCS. Firstly, move the booby trap to the cemetery/Orellan’s tomb scene (to beef up the action/peril in that section). Secondly, use the additional time created by the removal of the booby trap to both re-enforce Indy/Mutt’s relationship in Akator, and to give Mac a redemption and adequate death scene. That way, the ending would have been more comparable to TLC i.e. it would have felt like the conclusion of an emotional journey, rather than simply an effects fest.
Darth Vile said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it's easy to forget that the film doesn't end with Akator. The wedding finale is certainly as memorable as Indy getting sprayed with water by an elephant. I also found his retrieval of the fedora to be as emotionally satisfying as watching him ride off with Connery. In short, it's a unique ending for the series that is true to the 50's style it attempts to homage. (Not to mention, it's unlike anything you normally see in a modern summer blockbuster.)
Ironically, they may have simply followed Raiders a little too closely here. You have the big f/x spectacle of the deus ex machina, quickly followed by a brief epilogue that resolves our hero's quest. This was more than enough back in 1981, but today's audiences have gotten used to 2 1/2 hour genre flicks.
I'm not sure I would move the stairwell to Chauchilla, but I would prolong the amount of time it takes Indy to solve the obelisk's puzzle. There's a nice moment in the novelization where Mutt stands atop the pyramid and realizes the scope of Akator. An extra minute or two here and during the escape would've gone a long way towards fleshing out the characters' relationships.
Lance Quazar
Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
Well, DV, I've enjoyed your thoughtful arguments, even if I didn't agree with them.
But now you're just smokin' doobies. You're absolutely out of your mind if you think KOTCS' prologue trumps "Temple of Doom."
Darth Vile
New member
James said:
That's all true... and I wouldn't take that moment away from KOTCS (as it's very fitting and in keeping with the tone). But if I were playing the devils advocate, I might argue that TLC sort of earned that sunset ending by giving the Indy/Henry Jones Senior relationship a bit more script time. The payoff in KOTCS was a little more forced, as we never really got to see a reconciliation between Marion and Indy, or that real father/son dynamic between Indy and Mutt.
James said:
I agree... and whilst the ending of KOTCS is very whizy with the special effects and all, it's a bit passé (not necessarily because of it's duration) but rather because it was done more succinctly with the original movie i.e. Raiders. There is a real sense of “been there, done that”, which inhibits the moviemakers somewhat.
James said:
I always felt that the cemetery/tomb scene felt more of a natural place for the booby trap of the movie. But as you rightly state, it's the pace of the Akator section which doesn't do the final reel any favors. A little more time to take in the Akator vistas and build emotion/suspense would have been preferable to a 100 mph dash to the end.
Lance Quazar said:
Hmmm – We’ll definitely have to agree to disagree on this one. I think many people here prefer the prologue to KOTCS to “Anything Goes" (we did have a poll on it some time back)... and I must admit that when I first saw Indy descend into the farce of Busby Berkeley in TOD, I did think that I might have inadvertently been smokin’ doobies.
Col. Detritch
New member
I loved the KoTCS script and film it was wonderful. Though I did enjoy the Darabont script to, which is frankly surprising. I don't mean to sound snooty but past rough scripts have been crap! For example Monkey King or Saucer Men from Mars Which were not Indy. But City of the God's had that umpf that could have made a great film. The oly thing I didn't like was the Uranium trade, they could have done something else, the Idol scene and possibly Indy drunk off his ass! which all felt like they belonged in Quantum of Solace or some other Bond movie, even the clock tower fight boardered (It was freakin' awsome though!) Other wise, Yuri and Peter were great so was Von Grauen and Escalante, and what a finally! I actually didn't like drunk Henry and Salah, just felt like a fanboy script, but Henry's other aperance was entertaining, and Ox moving the forks and spoons by mental power, Creepy!
I beleive it is a great script and with some major plot tweeking could lay an outline for Indy 5, the villans, plane fight ect.
or Saucer Men from Mars Which were not Indy. But City of the God's had that umpf that could have made a great film. The oly thing I didn't like was the Uranium trade, they could have done something else, the Idol scene and possibly Indy drunk off his ass! which all felt like they belonged in Quantum of Solace or some other Bond movie, even the clock tower fight boardered (It was freakin' awsome though!) Other wise, Yuri and Peter were great so was Von Grauen and Escalante, and what a finally! I actually didn't like drunk Henry and Salah, just felt like a fanboy script, but Henry's other aperance was entertaining, and Ox moving the forks and spoons by mental power, Creepy! I beleive it is a great script and with some major plot tweeking could lay an outline for Indy 5, the villans, plane fight ect.
Col. Detritch
New member
Now that its been 4 or so months since I read it I feel the clock tower bit has grown on me and is quite original for an Indy movie! Also the Uranium trade isn't that unIndy to me anymore! It was a great srcipt worth of another look Mr Lucas!
The clock tower fight was similar to a scene in "Moonraker" where Bond fights Chang in a clock tower in Venice and to "The Stranger" with Orson Welles. The uranium trade also reminds me of Back to the future with the plutonium and lybian terrorists. Replacing that with a "mummy" from Roswell was great (A modern mummy for Indy to investigate in a sci fi environment).
I still think that Darabont's script was entertaining as a first draft (Typical of first drafts: too many characters and long action scenes) but KOTCS is superior in every way, specially in the first 20 minutes.
I still think that Darabont's script was entertaining as a first draft (Typical of first drafts: too many characters and long action scenes) but KOTCS is superior in every way, specially in the first 20 minutes.
emtiem
Well-known member
Darth Vile said:Hmmm ? We?ll definitely have to agree to disagree on this one. I think many people here prefer the prologue to KOTCS to ?Anything Goes" (we did have a poll on it some time back)... and I must admit that when I first saw Indy descend into the farce of Busby Berkeley in TOD, I did think that I might have inadvertently been smokin? doobies.
I love the opening to KOTCS; I think it's great, but it can't outshine the TOD opening for me. That's just so exuberant and bold; properly funny, tense, exciting... that's a director at the top of his game. And is there any use of the Raiders march that's quite as punch-the-air as when the plane takes off? It's an amazingly strong opening to a movie and I don't think it's been bettered.
And if we're talking City of the Gods: why is the Thin Man trying to kill Indy?
Darth Vile
New member
emtiem said:
Not even by TLC's prologue?
Col. Detritch
New member
Indy witnessed the exchange of the uranium for the skull (though he doesn't know it) and escaped. The thin man was sent to as he said 'tie loose ends' and kill the witness before he blew their cover. Actually very 1950's espionage stuff.
While we're on the subject of the killer, I just remembered something I was a little put off by, and that is Indy weeping when he tool Henry about what happened at the tower. Not very Indy!
Does too! I like Moonraker, despite the flack it gets; kinda like KOTCS. I guess some people don't like the idea of their favorite heros mixing with sci-fi stuff!
Col. Detritch said:While we're on the subject of the killer, I just remembered something I was a little put off by, and that is Indy weeping when he tool Henry about what happened at the tower. Not very Indy!
I think it said his eyes watered, which we've seen before. What, are summer action heroes not allowed to cry?
emtiem
Well-known member
Darth Vile said:Not even by TLC's prologue?
Well, no.
Col. Detritch said:
How do they even know he survived the nuke, though? And if they did know he's alive, wouldn't they have also noticed that he's under FBI suspicion for being a red? Wouldn't killing him make his story more convincing to the FBI rather than less? And what exactly is he supposed to know that's harmed their operation? It doesn't really hang together.
That whole opening is much stronger in KOTCS. Not least because Indy is wearing his proper Indy gear and not a uniform, then a yellow suit!