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Old 07-28-2009, 10:47 PM   #26
Niteshade007
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Originally Posted by ronicle
And the Marion haters can go ahead and start bashing me now if you like, I just wanted to rant for minute! I'm done now

I definately don't want Marion to die, and while I didn't care for her lack of development in Skull, I don't consider myself a "hater." She's still easily my favorite Indy girl. But I wouldn't say it's beyond the realm of possibility that she gets bumped off.

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Originally Posted by James
Spielberg and Lucas would never kill off Marion, because it wouldn't be true to the genre. There's very little pathos in the world of Indiana Jones, just as there was very little in the films which inspired it.

Keep in mind though that they've killed off a love interest before in the movies (Elsa), in the books (his wife), and at least one that I can think of from the TV show (the girl from Treasure of the Peacock's Eye). They also bumped off his dad and Brody. Sure, one of the actor's was dead and the other uninterested, but it's not like killing off a beloved character or any character that Indy loves is unheard of.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Niteshade007
it's not like killing off a beloved character or any character that Indy loves is unheard of.

It's not unheard of, but as you pointed out, it's generally due to practical concerns. (After all, Elsa was a Nazi! )

Once they brought Marion back for KOTCS, I think it ended any chance of them killing the character off. This just isn't that series. Judging by what has come before, I would expect them to draw inspiration from a B movie like Another Thin Man before a modern sequel like Rocky Balboa.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:32 AM   #28
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But consider what Nora was reduced to when it came to the Thin Man movies. She was a mommy who did nothing. By the third one, she had lost that spark of intrigue, and it became more about her taking care of their child. In one of them I remember she snuck into a locker room to do some investigating, but other than that she was no longer a detective or an equal. In Song of the Thin Man did she even do anything remotely interesting? We've already seen that they don't know what to do with Marion (well, that's not entirely true...she can drive a car...) why drag it out any further? I'd love to see the old, spunky Marion return, but if they bring her back I'm sure we'll see the progression Myrna Loy's character took, from a great, strong character into a pathetic sidekick with nothing intersting to say or do.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:53 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Niteshade007
But consider what Nora was reduced to when it came to the Thin Man movies. She was a mommy who did nothing. By the third one, she had lost that spark of intrigue, and it became more about her taking care of their child. In one of them I remember she snuck into a locker room to do some investigating, but other than that she was no longer a detective or an equal. In Song of the Thin Man did she even do anything remotely interesting? We've already seen that they don't know what to do with Marion (well, that's not entirely true...she can drive a car...) why drag it out any further? I'd love to see the old, spunky Marion return, but if they bring her back I'm sure we'll see the progression Myrna Loy's character took, from a great, strong character into a pathetic sidekick with nothing interesting to say or do.

One of the things that was the most ridiculous is when Pale referred to Marion's character as "Jar Jar Binks"!!!??? I am glad to hear that you don't hate Marion, but since Mutt is all grown up, she doesn't have to take the mommy role, I was disappointed with the way they gave her nothing to do in kotcs too. BUT it is still possible they can bring the Marion we saw in Raiders back again, you have to admit that! All we need is a good writer who knows how to handle Marion's character like Kasdan did, she doesn't have to be the wife that does nothing, she could be an awesome partner just like she was in Raiders, and THAT is what I'm hoping for! Also you have to remember that Elsa died because she was a two faced Nazi, Deidre was only in a book, and they did want Connery back for his role but he declined.... Karen has already declared that she would never turn down a role in Indy, so there is no problem in that department

Oh and thanks for the reassuring words James
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:06 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ronicle
One of the things that was the most ridiculous is when Pale referred to Marion's character as "Jar Jar Binks"!

Relax, we all know the only mate to the universally hated character in Star Wars is the most hated character in Indiana Jones:Willie Scott.

Now there's a sitcom! He can bumble and break her porcelain collectibles and she can scream and yell!

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Originally Posted by ronicle
since Mutt is all grown up, she doesn't have to take the mommy role, I was disappointed with the way they gave her nothing to do in kotcs too. BUT it is still possible they can bring the Marion we saw in Raiders back again, you have to admit that! All we need is a good writer who knows how to handle Marion's character like Kasdan did, she doesn't have to be the wife that does nothing, she could be an awesome partner just like she was in Raiders, and THAT is what I'm hoping for!

She could be an awesome partner, but she has to be played as a liability because she's someone Indy cares about, (and it would be an Indy movie after all). If she somehow sacrificed herself for Mutt, (she doesn't have to die really) it could work...but the violence can't be cartoony. There has to be some consequence...unfortunately why CS failed.

The reason you care so much for her is that they were getting beat up/thrown around...and shot, not shot AT, SHOT! (well Indy was anyway).
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:24 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Relax, we all know the only mate to the universally hated character in Star Wars is the most hated character in Indiana Jones:Willie Scott.

Now there's a sitcom! He can bumble and break her porcelain collectibles and she can scream and yell!

LOL

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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
She could be an awesome partner, but she has to be played as a liability because she's someone Indy cares about, The reason you care so much for her is that they were getting beat up/thrown around...and shot, not shot AT, SHOT!

I agree with you there...

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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
(and it would be an Indy movie after all). If she somehow sacrificed herself for Mutt, (she doesn't have to die really) it could work...but the violence can't be cartoony. There has to be some consequence...unfortunately why CS failed.


Can you give me an example of a scene? You must have some idea in your head.. So you want her to get the crap beat out of her or shot at and have the audience think she died only to have her come back like in Raiders, is that what you're thinking?
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:42 AM   #32
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Marion in KOTCS = JarJar in Phantom Menace. The two were only included (respectfully) to show the infantile and innocent perspective of a story that was both unnecessary and unwanted.

How anyone can say that Marion in KOTCS is a compelling and story advancing character with depth and interest is beyond me.

Ronicle, I have the deepest respect for you and love the threads and contribution you make. I also sympathize with your love of Marion, Indy's supposed first. But I can not take the film canon and believe that Marion in Raiders and Marion in KOTCS as one and the same. The ditzy mom in kingdom must die.

I also believe it would not work to martyr Marion for Mutt; that would be like making Jar Jar a planetary ambassador. It just doesn't work.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:46 AM   #33
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:48 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ronicle
Can you give me an example of a scene? You must have some idea in your head.. So you want her to get the crap beat out of her or shot at and have the audience think she died only to have her come back like in Raiders, is that what you're thinking?

I'm not for repeating Raiders, (fakesies!) or Crusade, (whew! just in time!). I think they have to take a beating...in SOME manner the violence/threat has to be believeable. SOMEONE has to die or get mutilated/maimed/disfigured! There HAS to be consequence...and not just to some peripheral character. We have to see it in the act...not just a bunch of dead bodies and the SOUND of gunfire.

Whatever form this takes, I don't know yet...but this cartoon S#!t has to end!

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I also believe it would not work to martyr Marion for Mutt; that would be like making Jar Jar a planetary ambassador. It just doesn't work.

...ah, where there's a will...
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:34 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse

How anyone can say that Marion in KOTCS is a compelling and story advancing character with depth and interest is beyond me.

Ronicle, I have the deepest respect for you and love the threads and contribution you make. I also sympathize with your love of Marion, Indy's supposed first. But I can not take the film canon and believe that Marion in Raiders and Marion in KOTCS as one and the same. The ditzy mom in kingdom must die.


I agree with on somethings but absolutely not the part where you think Marion's character should be killed off Pale Horse! You are absolutely right that the Marion we saw in kotcs shouldn't come back, but the Marion we saw in Raiders can and should come back!! Why can't you see how cool it could be if they brought the Raiders Marion back as Indy's perfect partner?! Like I said Mutt is an adult now, she doesn't have to be the mommy or a silly tagalong wife! All we need is Kasdan or someone as good, Kasdan *knows* how Marion's character should be written! But thanks for the sympathy Pale, I do appreciate it

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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I'm not for repeating Raiders, (fakesies!) or Crusade, (whew! just in time!). I think they have to take a beating...in SOME manner the violence/threat has to be believeable. SOMEONE has to die or get mutilated/maimed/disfigured! There HAS to be consequence...and not just to some peripheral character. We have to see it in the act...not just a bunch of dead bodies and the SOUND of gunfire.

Whatever form this takes, I don't know yet...but this cartoon S#!t has to end!


Well when you come up with a scene Rocket let me know, you know I love your ideas, as long as it doesn't involve killing off Marion(without bringing her back) I want to hear it!
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Marion in KOTCS = JarJar in Phantom Menace. The two were only included (respectfully) to show the infantile and innocent perspective of a story that was both unnecessary and unwanted.

How anyone can say that Marion in KOTCS is a compelling and story advancing character with depth and interest is beyond me.

Ronicle, I have the deepest respect for you and love the threads and contribution you make. I also sympathize with your love of Marion, Indy's supposed first. But I can not take the film canon and believe that Marion in Raiders and Marion in KOTCS as one and the same. The ditzy mom in kingdom must die.

I also believe it would not work to martyr Marion for Mutt; that would be like making Jar Jar a planetary ambassador. It just doesn't work.

Honestly I don't like Jar Jar Binks, however Marion is on a whole different platform. Marion Ravenwood is one of my favorite Indiana Jones Franchise characters and I like her.

I can't see why some people dislike Marion and Mutt. I think that Mutt is a nice addition to the franchise and I don't think it would be a wise decision for Marion to be killed off either. While I think that Marion should play a role in the next Indiana Jones movie I do believe that her role should be more reserved and less prominent than it was in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

What I'm trying to say is that her role in Indiana Jones 5 should be like that of Clark's mother in Smallville.
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:54 AM   #37
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Honestly I don't like Jar Jar Binks, however Marion is on a whole different platform. Marion Ravenwood is one of my favorite Indiana Jones Franchise characters and I like her.

I can't see why some people dislike Marion and Mutt. I think that Mutt is a nice addition to the franchise and I don't think it would be a wise decision for Marion to be killed off either. While I think that Marion should play a role in the next Indiana Jones movie I do believe that her role should be more reserved and less prominent than it was in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

What I'm trying to say is that her role in Indiana Jones 5 should be like that of Clark's mother in Smallville.

I like Mutt, I just didn't like his attitude in kotcs, it pissed me off, it was better at the wedding though, much less of an A-hole at that part..

That's just what I'm saying though! Why does Marion have to be "the mom" if Mutt is all grown up, why can't she go back to being Indy's kick-ass partner like in Raiders!!!?? I don't want her role reduced or taken away, I want the Raiders Marion back!
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:06 PM   #38
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This discussion demonstrates why noir is always touted by venerated members (past and present) of this forum.

Tough gritty soul wrenching performances always come from characters who experience loss. Marion was a fireball in Raiders, because (as she was presented by the screenwriter) she lost her dad, and Indy too...that's how we found in the Raven Bar. Lost and empty. That made her real.

Mutt had no loss in his life either. The story arc shown he had an absent (step) father in Collin (Williams) and a loopy mother. He's an adult adolescent at best, mimicking James Dean 'just to be bad'....

Surely he's privileged, but no real loss.

Indy V needs to be filled with loss. Lots of it. Like Rocket says, real consequence, real emotion, real pain. Only then will we find our hero redeemed and will we get the redemption we're looking for.

It's the only way back into the garden, so to speak. (For when you eat of the tree, you will surly die...) That is why I high five this plan.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Indy V needs to be filled with loss. Lots of it. Like Rocket says, real consequence, real emotion, real pain. Only then will we find our hero redeemed and will we get the redemption we're looking for.

It's the only way back into the garden, so to speak. (For when you eat of the tree, you will surly die...) That is why I high five this plan.

Not just lip service!

Hear hear!
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Niteshade007
But consider what Nora was reduced to when it came to the Thin Man movies. She was a mommy who did nothing. By the third one, she had lost that spark of intrigue, and it became more about her taking care of their child.

But why would you expect them to imitate the later entries, as opposed to the early ones? I mentioned Another at random, since that was an instance where both had to travel for an adventure. I could've easily said the first or second, though.

The later films downplayed Nora's crimefighting involvement, but they still retained an offbeat relationship between the two. After all, Nick had always taken pains to keep Nora out of the case anyway, since she wasn't really a detective. (If anything, it was Nick Jr. who became a non-issue in the series. He was completely MIA in The Thin Man Goes Home- a film in which you'd expect his inclusion to be a no-brainer.)

If Lucas and Spielberg are trying to find a way to involve Marion in the adventure, doesn't it seem likely for them to say, "Hey, maybe we could approach it like a Thin Man movie?".

It's certainly more logical than expecting them to say, "You know what would be great? If we made this really dark and somber, like the recent Batman, Bond, and Rocky films. That's what is popular right now, so maybe we should modernize Indy as well?"
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
This discussion demonstrates why noir is always touted by venerated members (past and present) of this forum.

Tough gritty soul wrenching performances always come from characters who experience loss. Marion was a fireball in Raiders, because (as she was presented by the screenwriter) she lost her dad, and Indy too...that's how we found in the Raven Bar. Lost and empty. That made her real.

Mutt had no loss in his life either. The story arc shown he had an absent (step) father in Collin (Williams) and a loopy mother. He's an adult adolescent at best, mimicking James Dean 'just to be bad'....

Surely he's privileged, but no real loss.

Indy V needs to be filled with loss. Lots of it. Like Rocket says, real consequence, real emotion, real pain. Only then will we find our hero redeemed and will we get the redemption we're looking for.

It's the only way back into the garden, so to speak. (For when you eat of the tree, you will surly die...) That is why I high five this plan.

That's a nice way of looking at it Pale Horse.

I for one, would like Indiana Jones 5 to be have a Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn feel to it or for maybe have a story plot similar to that of Star Trek III: The Search For Spock, in which something precious to Mutt is lost and must be regained.

For example:

Indy 5 could open up in a very mythological setting behind the stone cold walls of a Gothic/Medieval castle in which a cloaked figure is vowing to overtake the world and plunge it into eternal darkness and escape her imprisonment.

Back in the modern world Mutt is riding about on his motorcycle when he notices a broken bridge up ahead and then stops on the brink of the washed out and broken stucture and dismounts from his bike. There on the ground beside him is a bag with a note attached to it informing the reader that inside is a box that contains vast evils and must not be opened for it imprisons the power of darkness.

Howbeit our young and brash Mutt thinks that it's all a hoax and opens this box and unleashes great chaos and the rise of the evil. Marion has been captured by the Dark Guardians and Mutt with Indiana Jones as his mentor must grow up and rescue her in less than 48 hours and return the dangerous artifact AKA "Pandora's Box" to the abyss which is none other than Bermuda's Triangle.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:30 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Tough gritty soul wrenching performances always come from characters who experience loss.

Of course, Indy loses more in the first act of KOTCS than he has in any previous film: His friends, his country, his reputation, his livelihood, his family, etc. Whereas Marion sought to get back to the US in ROTLA, Indy willingly decides to abandon it.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:02 PM   #43
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Of course, Indy loses more in the first act of KOTCS than he has in any previous film: His friends, his country, his reputation, his livelihood, his family, etc. Whereas Marion sought to get back to the US in ROTLA, Indy willingly decides to abandon it.

While Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a good film as far as just watching a movie for pure entertainment is concerned it had no where moral benefit. The movie had a poorly written script and in a way it seemed as if the whole movie was just trown together without any real thought or analytical thinking or even logic for that matter.

When one watches a movie they should come away feeling good about what they've just watched. A person should be able to say "I really enjoyed that movie and not only was I entertained but I was educated and inspired to think deeply about social, political, historical and everyday life matters."

At lest that is my opinion and that is why I enjoy Star Trek because that is exactly what it causes me and others that I know to say after watching a Star Trek program or movie and the same goes for National Treasure, Jurassic Park, David Copperfield and movies like The Day After Tomorrow or The Day the Earth Stood Still. The first three Indiana Jones movies also did that for me and it was because of Indiana Jones that I became a serious viewer of the History Channel and National Geographic Channel. It was also due to Indiana Jones that I took a renewed interest in the Biblical stories in the Bible such as Noah's Ark and the Staff of Moses along with the Garden of Eden and respected Biblical/Historical sites such as Jerusalem and the Dead Sea.

As far Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is concerned while the movie was indeed enjoyable it did not do much for the human mind as far giving the viewer something meaningful to go away with. On the other hand I've head some people say it was a death blow to the Indiana Jones franchise.

Furthermore for parents who wanted to introduce their children to Indiana Jones it was a real back stab because of the unnecessary over the top use of profanity. I applaud J.J. Abrams Star Trek because it was a better attempt at reviving and introducing a well loved franchise to the a new generation. The movie has no where near as much profanity as KOTCS did and it was stimulated the viewers mind.

Hopefully Indiana Jones 5 will be much better.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:29 PM   #44
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Furthermore for parents who wanted to introduce their children to Indiana Jones it was a real back stab because of the unnecessary over the top use of profanity. The movie has no where near as much profanity as KOTCS did and it was stimulated the viewers mind.

Hopefully Indiana Jones 5 will be much better.

kotcs had too much profanity?? There was wayy more profanity in Raiders.. It didn't bother me, I thought most of the time when profanity was used in Raiders it was in a funny way
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:39 PM   #45
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When one watches a movie they should come away feeling good about what they've just watched. A person should be able to say "I really enjoyed that movie and not only was I entertained but I was educated and inspired to think deeply about social, political, historical and everyday life matters."

Well, this is really a discussion for another thread. My point was that, regardless of how much loss is featured in the plot, it's still going to be unfolding in an Indiana Jones movie. And like it or not, they're simply not that deep.

Fans have been lamenting the camp and pulp factors for over 25 years and three sequels. At what point is it okay to acknowledge, "You know, that actually is a major part of the formula."?

Prior to KOTCS, the Indy sequels were almost treated like stylistic experiments by many fans. They expected Indy 4 to be a more direct successor to ROTLA as opposed to more of the same. It's easy to understand how this happened, since the franchise had been dormant for so long.

However, KOTCS clearly established that the controversial aspects of TOD and LC were no fluke. For better or worse, this is how Lucas and Spielberg view the character (and universe) of Indiana Jones.

But again, this is veering off on a tangent better suited to a more general Indy 5 thread. I'm just surprised that so many still expect Indy 5 to deviate from established canon.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:30 PM   #46
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I completely agree with what you're saying, James. And I certainly do not EXPECT them to veer from what they've been doing.

But I will say that if they did turn things in a different direction, while striking a balance between too dark and heavy and too light and campy, then in my opinion they could make something very special with Indy V.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:42 PM   #47
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...it's all in the details of the Original Post...
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:23 PM   #48
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Honestly I don't like Jar Jar Binks, however Marion is on a whole different platform. Marion Ravenwood is one of my favorite Indiana Jones Franchise characters and I like her.

Good grief.

I hate to get didactic, but you've left me no choice...

Burn this into your brains: Good storytelling is not, not, NOT about showing likeable characters in agreeable situations. CONFLICT (and its emotional effect on the audience) is the heart of drama.

(It's okay if you can't get your mind around that... Neither could the Indy IV development team. Somewhere along the way, somebody swapped in the word "SPECTACLE" where I had "conflict", and thus...)

So, whether or not Pale Horse, or I, or anyone else LIKES Marion, should NOT matter in considering if killing her off is a good story idea. Actually, let me correct myself... because the point of a film or screenplay is to get an emotional response, it is often beneficial (and I would argue NECESSARY) to kill a likeable character because they are likeable and because of the effect that that has on the story (and thereby the audience). Yes, kids, even in mainstream movies. What would the Fugitive, Old Yeller, Braveheart, or Gladiator be without the death of one or more palatable characters? (Which is not to say that killing a good guy is the ONLY way to create conflict, or that doing so can't be silly, ineffective, manipulative, trite, or otherwise botched hideously.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Indy V needs to be filled with loss. Lots of it. Like Rocket says, real consequence, real emotion, real pain. Only then will we find our hero redeemed and will we get the redemption we're looking for.

All the ooshy-skooshy Marion wuv in this thread only reinforces the dramatic potential of offing her. I wouldn't do it out of spite, but as a splash of cold water in the face of an audience made complacent by low-conflict, consequence-free movies (cough *Crystal Skull* cough).

That said, despair not fuzzy-wuzzy types... it is my belief that Master Pale Horse remains a Quixotic figure, and that all the painful possibilities of real drama will be kept a safe distance from any future chapters in the Indy saga. The Neighborhood of Make-Believe is safe. The ultimate victory is yours.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:01 PM   #49
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But I will say that if they did turn things in a different direction, while striking a balance between too dark and heavy and too light and campy, then in my opinion they could make something very special with Indy V.

I'm in agreement with that, and actually do expect them to try a different approach next time out. I just have a feeling it won't deviate too far from the established formula. They may tone down the lighter moments, but it will likely be very similar to the previous "Indiana Jones and the" movies. The fact that Spielberg believed KOTCS was constructed "just like" the previous entries suggests as much.

Lucas and Spielberg simply come to the table with a completely different agenda than the average fan. The latter is generally more concerned with incorporating what he learned in film school than what Doc Savage encountered 70 years ago. I'm not suggesting either approach is less valid, just that there's a rather obvious- and fundamental- difference at work.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:16 PM   #50
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Good grief.

I hate to get didactic, but you've left me no choice...

Burn this into your brains: Good storytelling is not, not, NOT about showing likeable characters in agreeable situations. CONFLICT (and its emotional effect on the audience) is the heart of drama.

(It's okay if you can't get your mind around that... Neither could the Indy IV development team. Somewhere along the way, somebody swapped in the word "SPECTACLE" where I had "conflict", and thus...)

So, whether or not Pale Horse, or I, or anyone else LIKES Marion, should NOT matter in considering if killing her off is a good story idea. Actually, let me correct myself... because the point of a film or screenplay is to get an emotional response, it is often beneficial (and I would argue NECESSARY) to kill a likeable character because they are likeable and because of the effect that that has on the story (and thereby the audience). Yes, kids, even in mainstream movies. What would the Fugitive, Old Yeller, Braveheart, or Gladiator be without the death of one or more palatable characters? (Which is not to say that killing a good guy is the ONLY way to create conflict, or that doing so can't be silly, ineffective, manipulative, trite, or otherwise botched hideously.)



All the ooshy-skooshy Marion wuv in this thread only reinforces the dramatic potential of offing her. I wouldn't do it out of spite, but as a splash of cold water in the face of an audience made complacent by low-conflict, consequence-free movies (cough *Crystal Skull* cough).

That said, despair not fuzzy-wuzzy types... it is my belief that Master Pale Horse remains a Quixotic figure, and that all the painful possibilities of real drama will be kept a safe distance from any future chapters in the Indy saga. The Neighborhood of Make-Believe is safe. The ultimate victory is yours.


All that's fine and good, but none of that appeared to be the stated purpose of killing her off in the OP. The OP posited it would be like killing off Jar Jar Binks, the single most despised character in the entire Lucasfilm universe. This assumes that a) Marion actually is widely regarded with anything like the contempt felt in many, many corners for Jar Jar, and b) that killing off a character (ostensibly a "good" character in the narrative, yet one for which it's understood by the filmmakers the audience wants to see offed simply because they find her annoying) will yield dramatic weight like of the sort you ably describe. I don't think either of these assumptions is well-supported.

I also get the feeling at least some of the desires occasionally expressed here (not necessarily by you or the original poster, but generally) to see Marion exit the picture in Indiana Jones and the Fifth Movie are motivated not by a sincere desire for dramatic weight, but rather to avoid seeing their hero "tied down" to just one love interest for the remainder of the series. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think some viewers feel a bit put out at the idea their hero won't continue to make new conquests indefinitely, and that the string of fresh new twentysomething flavors of the month has come to an end (yeah, I know Kate Capshaw was 30 by the time her installment was released, but still).

I'm more than willing to see bad things happen to good people in the name of good drama; as I've said before, I think The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles is quite possibly the finest Indy production since Raiders of the Lost Ark, and there's more darkness and loss there than in the movies. I just think that if Marion were to be killed off, it should have serious weight and not be blown off, or done for the wrong reasons in the first place. I have my doubts as to whether that would happen, and also whether at least some fans (again, not necessarily the ones in this thread) might wish for it because they honestly want a movie with more dramatic weight.
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