Darth Vile said:
This is also probably in keeping with Lucas and Spielberg's more liberal/slightly left of center principles rather than some "lost edge of their youth".
Where are these supposed liberal principles evidenced in Raiders, (IN RESPECT TO GUNPLAY PLEASE).
Darth Vile said:
And whilst KOTCS probably has the least amount of Indy gun play, TOD and TLC pay it little more than lip service.
I look at it this way, calling something lip service is simply discussing it. KotCS being a FILM pays lip service to the gun content. How many people do you SEE shot in CS? How many wounds "explode" for the camera in Raiders?(Explode is being used gratuitously...they don't really). CS pays lip service to the gun play because the FILM shows you as much as you would have seen on a RADIO. At the very least you SEE the Gemans as Indy is mowing them down and not just Indy pulling the trigger...then the fleeting pan over bodies on the floor.
CS pay true lip service to the gun play. You see the guns, you hear the bullets, you see the bodies.
For all intents and purposes, after the "marksmanship" of the truckload of Russian Special forces during the ant scene it's not a stretch to think they missed the American soldiers at the gate and they rather died of coronary arrest.
Darth Vile said:
The point I was making is that the "disparity" (or perception of disparity) is largely moot. This is because, outside of the Raven bar scene in Raiders, the set pieces mainly consist of vehicular chases and fist fights. Assuming that the claim of "disparity" is a criticism of KOTCS, I find any such claim to be somewhat baseless.
That asumption comes off as self serving especially to someone READING the thread. Just read the question/initial post of this thread...tends to make the rest of your post obfuscation.
Darth Vile said:
And it's also a timely reminder that for the vast majority of TOD, Indy does not use a gun. Thanks for pointing that out.
It's just silly to take his posted comment to someone else, intended to be a friendly "hand up" to someone who has stumbled, and use it against him. Still, it does illustrate the point of the thread, that EVEN in ToD...for as much as he actually posesses the gun he tries to use it. He even forgot he lost it and went for it"unconciously" Shows you where Indy's head is at...
Mickiana said:
It was definitely out of character for Indy to not shoot his hand gun in KotCS. Yes, the edge was missing.
I agree...you could have an adventure where it NEVER happens, it's interesting to note the two most universally panned Indy films, (by fans AND critics) water this aspect down...as well as others.
Cole said:
And if bloodshed, violence, and gunfire is what makes Indy great to you...then you and I are on completely different spectrums.
WOW! Believe you me, just you "interpreting" the conversation that way proves you're way beyond "spectrums".
Darth Vile said:
Because anything less would be facile right?
This just shows you're not arguing your opinion...it's a cute way of escaping explaining yourself, cute.
Darth Vile said:
I don’t think I missed the point. I was alluding to the view that many of your points seem to be shaped out of a dislike for the movie, rather than rationale and distilled thought (a debate we’ve had for some time now).
It's quite possible his dislike of the film was arrived at because of distilled rational thought. His posts seem rather consistently well thought out. I think rather then missing the point, you ignore the point.
Darth Vile said:
Lets agree on something… There isn’t a lack of guns and bullets being fired in KOTCS.
This is a true statement. Just like there's no lack of guns and bullets being fired an a typical A-Team episode.
Darth Vile said:
On the contrary, I’d argue that there is some consistency between the sequels in relation to this subject i.e. there is a step back from Indy actively using a gun. Again, I’d posit that the best action scenes in KOTCS, and the other movies, don’t actually involve Indy shooting a gun, or being in a gun fight. Therefore, IMHO, the assertion that lack of Indy gun play in KOTCS makes for an inferior movie is moot i.e. largely irrelevant (to me at least).
This is the point where you're dirrected to the initial post of the thread...AGAIN. But to address your handiwork, the lack of an Indy/gun relationship doesn't make the movie poor unto itself, it's merely a glaring example and symptom of the problems inherent in CS
Darth Vile said:
C’mon, even you should be able to cut through your swathes of KOTCS disdain and acknowledge the underlying premise we were discussing. It’s whether or not Indy using his gun weakens the movie. Clearly you think it does. But as I pointed out in my previous post, you then go onto (indirectly of course) acknowledge that Indy doesn’t use his gun outside of a few seconds of screen time in TOD… you even go onto to laud the no gun gag (“nice touch”). You know as well as I (and everyone else), that there is much more Indy gun action in Raiders than there is in TOD and TLC put together. So what makes the use of Indy’s gun in TOD so much better for you that it’s worth debating??? A brief scene in the back of a car??? You are either A) Easily pleased. B) Extremely subjective to the point where your credibility risks being compromised.
This is just insulting, in case you missed it, (or ignored it above):
It's just silly to take his posted comment to someone else, intended to be a friendly "hand up" to someone who has stumbled, and use it against him(
and describing it as a point debate is SO selfserving, AND WRONG). Still, it does illustrate the point of the thread, that EVEN in ToD...for as much as he actually posesses the gun he tries to use it. He even forgot he lost it and went for it"unconciously" Shows you where Indy's head is at...
Darth Vile said:
LOL - Typical. The point where you joined this thread was to disagree with a couple of my comments (and someone else’s). Therefore, it was you who took it off at a tangent.
You couldn't be more wrong. You consitently countered arguments you couldn't refute like this:
Darth Vile said:
Hmmm – The “I’m talking my ball home” Udvarnoky. Seems like you are holding a mirror up to yourself there my friend... The only thing I've done is challenge your somewhat tired and jaundiced view of a particular movie (KOTCS). I've certainly made nothing up... I have no reason to. And even after several posts you've still not managed to substantiate how the gun play in TOD makes it a better movie than KOTCS.
This has nothing to do with the thread...just YOUR tangents. YOURS.
Phew! Have more fun guys!
