What about the President of the USA

What about our President

Does any one have any views on our current President of the USA ?

I am not a political person and do not understand political paries but I have some opinions about wars and bullies and such.

I do not agree with vialence nor wars per se. On the ther hand the only time in my life I contemplated or acted out violently was because of a bully picking on a weaker person.

I would not personally be in any war but on the oter hand I am glad there are people willing to go to war to combat bullies.

What does any one else think?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Note

Unfortunately political discussions are not endorsed or encouraged here at the Raven. In light of recent events across the board, at this time, they will be locked.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I and the fellow moderators have discussed the closing of this thread. It appears I did act hastily, and this thread should have the consideration it deserves. I acted wrong.

Please accept my apology if the closing of the thread resulted in a distrust of me or my judgements here at the Raven. I realize that there are many valuable opinions here at the Raven from a great many members. I look forward to being surprised and challenged again here.
 
Heavens, Pale Horse , I certainly have no distrust of any one here. I am beginning to belive this is the first honest forum I have visited.

I was simply shocked that OFF topic was not to allow any off topic subject of interest.

I am just as curious as to others thoughts on UFO's and many other things.

I have many curiousities and many things to share and it seems an off topic forum section is the perfect place to share them and surly would make this the ultimate forum. I would heartily suggest if you want the greatest attendance and participation in your forum that you may consider a section for "other hats" Needless to say that many that wear an Indy hat also wear many other styles or want to or to learn about them.

The alternate forums that allow discusssions about any other hat will either immediatly lock down any thread that does not support their favorite hat company or bring in enough off topic distortions to make sure it gets locked as wquickly as possible if it in any way lends credibility to any other hat company besides the one they support.

I am an avid supporter of all hat companies and hats in general . Billions of heads an on one to cover them all and we need more hatters and more competition and more venues to teach folks about hats and IJ hats and all hats. I would love to see another section devoted tojust hats. I send all my customers links to all the forums that I have frequented and have added this forum to the list of 3 others. I would love to add to my encouragement that they paticualrly visit this forum and endorse it over the others. Pale Horse and the oter Mods VP and all the rest what would you guys think of a section for all hats and open honest discussions?
 
S

skywlkrinc

Guest
I like Dubya, and I'll be voting for him again in November. I could say more, but for the sake of keeping this topic civil, I'll not criticize Bush's opponent nor mention his name as it is a sore subject with me.

Luke
 
Here here to Liberman's policies. I always said if there was a conservative Democrat I would support him and Liberman is just that. Shame there has to be political parties at all so we are boxed in and cannot have real choices of men and not the party .

But here I go talking on issues I am not smart enouh to know any thing about.
 
Ren, while I disagree with about 99% of what you post on any subject and about 99% of your approach to the way you post things and about 100% of everything else you do, i can start to see why my wife says you are just like me.

Not that we will ever agree on any topic nor probably ever get the intended meaning from any post the oter makes but I can see we certainly both are opinionated a plenty and certainly both are willing to take a stand for what we think is right . Even if we are wrong about 99% of the time.

God forbid I should be swayed into your camp on any thing :)
 
Ren you write tht gal that posted her heart felt opinion and true belifs about not having children a private appology and letit go at taht and I will get along with you for 2 weeks if it kills me and 2 years if it does not.

I am not a military nor a violent man never engaged in a fight in my life and would not know how to defend myself beyond running if I was forced to one.

I do not trust George Bush any more than the ones that hate him so much. I cannot say I like him a lot eiter but I have ultimate respect for him and recently offered to make him a hat.

Sure he would be liked more if he learned poise and grace and fine speech. Teh masses would have flocked to him. We live in a spinless society of ignorance to truth and reality . George bush is a god ( lower case g) among men. He is the one fact that will save america from its self or from terriost . He may not have any thing to offer on economic issues and may bring about real hardship fincailly on the infra structure. he may not his trickle down economics may be the one that works. Many of my rich relatives subscribe to this theory as well. I cannot as I am a pragmatist and a socialist. I reckon I will remain poor of money and friends and rich of well maybe I will not ever know any riches.

I have been well off financially and I have been dirt poor. noeithe made me happy. I was once happy as a devout christian but could not remain in what I learned was not true. Faith based religion is a wonderful thing it gives an indivual great comfort and can offe true happiness. it can aslo equally well bring about terror and all maner of wars and pestilence and if there is a middle ground or an answer or a solution or peace on earth , I cannot imagine what it would be. Maybe if all men loved all oters and practiced pure religion and undefiled before God as the bible suggest , then they would find solutions to over crowding in the world and form a true communist society that really did work and not a limited socialism that is branded as some evil and was.

These issues may well best not be talked about on forums or any where else as I know I am not smart enough to have the answer and I reckon no one else is as they have not came up with it yet. Maybe faith based religions are the answer as at least the practicer of them finds true soltice while they are activly involved in them. Again I am not suggesting one way or other as I am not smart enough to say . What I am is tollerant enough to allow free discussion of any thing and resolved enough to take a firm stand on any thing I feel is important enough. I guess that is a sad commentry as I sure find myself here in a postion of not being able to make a stand on this one. I never fired a man form nay job I ran for making a mistake but I sent many a walking for standing with their hands in their pockets afraid to make a wrong move. I never suffered fools or indecisicive peole well at all and am not braging about it as I am not sure it also is correct but I sure do like Bush for one reason only . He does not stand with hands in his pockets he takes a position and acts. I have stoped at many an accident on the hwy and pulled peole from cars some in flames or starting to burn and others standing around screaming you are going to get sued. Well sue me for liking Bush is all I can say. The only thing I would do differently than he has is go on and straighten out Iran and Syria and nuke the dickens out of Korea!!! If I belived the Bible to be the infallible word of God then I would feel compelled to do just that.

Now if this is too strong for the readers i am sorry to offend . Biut if I was a Christian as was the ones I read about in the bible , I would not be appologizing at all. They not only spoke what they believed but they lived and died it. Paul spent first half of his life killing christians and second half in prison for trying to convert the folks over to christianity. Right wrong or indifferent, He and many others stood on what they believed. More should be so strong in their beliefs.

While I have NOTHING but utter contempt for any one that would fly a plane into a crowded building, I cannot fault the underlying belief system that allows a man to give his life for his beliefs. he is either a stronger man thatn me or a blantent fool and maybe both. Now you have the rest of the story ... Good day.
 

Webley

New member
What about our President

gladhatter said:
Does any one have any views on our current President of the USA ?
Well if you ask me the guy is a loser just like the guy who had the job before him and just like the guy who will have the job after him. dont get me wrong I love my country just not my government and thats why I have a gun. I believe that ALL politicians are evil and thare are the bigest threat to are fine nation and the world.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
I'll have to nag about the topic of this thread... The Raven is an <i>international</i>, not an <i>American</i> community. Using term "our" is really not proper on the main face page, since GWB is really not the president of all the people visiting this board (though I have the feeling he sure as heck would like to be...)
 

Luckylighter

New member
Renderking Fisk said:
On another note? Know what?s wrong with Politics? There are too many **freaking** politicians/lawyers and not enough doctors, plumbers, carpenters, Pastors and Priests, and middle-class working people. Chew on that.

I've always believed that the main problem is that there are too many PROFESSIONAL politicians--people who make it a career. No more are our representatives truly representing us. If congress were a true reflection of our society, then our senators and reps would be farmers and writers and customer service reps and burger flippers. And they would be looking out for OUR best interests because they are US.

I think it was Aristotle or Plato who said the best leader is the person who doesn't want to be a leader, because they cannot be corrupted by agendas and their own interests. I hate Michael Moore, but recently he said on the Howard Stern show that if Kerry gets elected, he's planning to make a documentary exposing him too, because, "There has to be something wrong with anybody who wants to be president." I hate Moore, but I like what he said.

With that said, although I support Bush on several issues, the one that really bothers me is his stance on stem cell research. I appreciate the fact that he is "born again". But as president, he has to remember that represents ALL THE PEOPLE, not just Christians. People of the Jewish faith have no moral or religious problems with stem cell research. My grandfather died from Lou Gehrig's Disease 20 years ago. People are still dying from it today. He, and others like him could have lived as a result of this research.

Two years ago my sister needed a kydney and pancreas transplant. Her kydney's were operating at under 30% capacity. She was dying. Stem cell research could have grown organs for her that would be a perfect match without fear of rejection. Instead she had to spend over a year on dialysis until a donor could be found. As a diabetic, the more time you spend on dialysis, the more years are taken off your life.

Bush needs to get with the program on this. People are dying and this reseach can stop that. He is losing touch with the reality of our world, just like his old man did 12 years ago.

On the other hand I despise Kerry. So I'm caught in a quagmire, and it looks like this election year, I'm going to vote for the same person I voted for last time...Homer Simpson.
 
That is anohter tough one. I too want to see stem cell research go forward. I hat that Bush in not in favor of it. Then again , i reaslize that maybe medicine is good and bad too. We all want to live for ever and certainly want all our love ones to live for ever. The question is , what if people lived for everwhat would become of the planet? here again the issue is too complex for me and I say roll the dice open up new things and see if we can survive it. Ultimatly we are all going to die and why hold back on good things that cankeep people alive and maybe lose people that could have saved the earth .
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Stem cell research is a hot bed in politics right now. It is my opinion that when GWB is against the research, it is because the current U.S. policy is to take the cells from aborted fetus' as Ren pointed out. It, as I understand GWB, violates his sanctity of life. I also believe there is a deeper motivation for his reluctance. PM me and I will 'splain it to anyone who wants to hear.

It is a theroy that goes into the long term consequences of playing god, but that is off the main topic of this thread.
 
Pale hores please do pm me or memail me splaing what you kknow about stem cell and bush.

Ren wants to know what kind of stem cell.

I want to know what kind of aborted fetus he is against using stem cells from . ren are you opposed to abortion or to stem cells being used from an aborted fetus or are you against any stem cell from any aborted fetus ?

Is your real position that you are against abortion and as a result against stem cell harvesting as it may promote abortion?

If you are taking th latter position then I have to recall an old court case where a guy got busted for having amoonshine steal on his property . They conviced him saying his ha the ability to make moonshine with it.,when in fact it was purly for yard decoration.

He then told the judge you may as well go ahead and convit me for rape now too. When ask whey he replyed he had the equipment for it also.

Maybe a bad anology but in a free sopciety I think it improper to take a position that one thing may lead to anoter so we better just forbid the one good theng as it could turn to bad.

Take this forum for example. When folks propse to not have an issue discussed due to it may lead to civil didobedience or contaminated forum due to the improper behavior of the people talking . I think this is all wrong . The people need to say in line and not get out of line due to the freedom to talk about any thing.

Finally with no pointing any fingers and especially not at you Joe Brody but Please folks do not threaten to quit a forum due to not liking some one on it. It is ok to have differences or even not like some one but that is no reason for the rest of us to lose you .
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I will PM you gladhatter, this morning. Please be patient and I will give you my take.

We have to get this back on topic of the President. Stem Cell research is an different Off-Topic all together.
 
Ren you are very clear on what you have said but seem to have limited your focus on possible reasons for abortions. What about the 13 year old girl that gets molested by her father or brother? or the 12 year old girl that is raped by a stranger with full blown aids and the child is infected bt not the girl. What about a million oter reasons you have not address here?

What about you find out that Coppertop has a currently incurale desease ( God forbid it please) Would you oppose him getting the cure from an aborted fetus?
 
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