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Old 01-14-2008, 03:32 PM   #26
1ord3vil
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
It's reasonable enough to take about motivations.
Sure, the scriptwriters' motivations. The motivations of the characters are whatever you happen to think they are.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
Sure, the scriptwriters' motivations. The motivations of the characters are whatever you happen to think they are.

Hah, no. That's not even true for actors. Writers write things a certain way, but in a good work, at some point, the characters take over (listen to Edward Albee talk about "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" sometime). Just because the character of the mechanic serves a "fight scene" purpose doesn't mean he doesn't have clear characteristics.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:40 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Hah, no.
Hah yes. If the motivations aren't written explicitly into the story or otherwise somehow implied, the motivations of the characters are whatever anyone think they are.
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Just because the character of the mechanic serves a "fight scene" purpose doesn't mean he doesn't have clear characteristics.
Of course, I never claimed the above. Anyway, the mechanic's motivations are still whatever I think they are though.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
Hah yes. If the motivations aren't written explicitly into the story or otherwise somehow implied, the motivations of the characters are whatever anyone think they are.

That is implied. There are lots and lots of soldiers about. If the mechanic didn't want to fight, he wouldn't have to.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #30
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He was just toying with Indy.

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Old 01-14-2008, 04:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
That is implied. There are lots and lots of soldiers about. If the mechanic didn't want to fight, he wouldn't have to.
Not implied. It merely makes him a character who for some reason fought Indy rather than opting out. Feel free to speculate wildly about his motivations for doing so.

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Old 01-14-2008, 04:12 PM   #32
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Cause he knew he could kick his a$$. ^^^

I GOT IT!

The German's have hired all the India diggers (Not knowing about the children diggers).

The Mechanic sees the Thuggee whipping someone. He goes over to investigate. He sees that the enormus thuggee is whipping tiny children. He angrily begins walking up to him.

Mechanic: Hey! Hey you!

The Thuggee looks over at the German.

Mechanic: Yes you. (Putting up his fists) Come here! Right now!

The Thuggee drops his whip and dons an ominous smile, then confidently begins walking over to the German.

Mechanic: Put up your fists! Come on!

The thuggee puts up his fists. THE FIGHT IS ON!!!
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
It merely makes him a character who for some reason fought Indy rather than opting out..

His reasons for fighting Indy are very clear.....he strolls up to, strutting his stuff and loosening up his arms, laughing and mocking Indy and challenging to fight. He even only uses his fists in order to show Indy that he could absolutely destroy him if he wanted to.

He even pulls Indy off the ground onto his feet a couple of times.

Its sport for him, and thats all made clear by the way the scene is played out.
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
His reasons for fighting Indy are very clear.....
And so the speculation continues...
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
And so the speculation continues...

What qualifies as substantiated implication for you, then, if what oki9Sedo has put forth does not?
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:35 PM   #36
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What qualifies as substantiated implication for you, then, if what oki9Sedo has put forth does not?
It depends on the situation, so it's hard to generalize. In this case it could well be a case of someone actively looking for trouble, but other than that... well, let's just say I don't really care enough to speculate about the motives. And this is where personal opinions will tend to diverge quickly anyway, which was my point.

Not saying there anything wrong with what you suggested, on the contrary. But like I said it's not the only explanation.
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
It depends on the situation, so it's hard to generalize. In this case it could well be a case of someone actively looking for trouble, but other than that... well, let's just say I don't really care enough to speculate about the motives. And this is where personal opinions will tend to diverge quickly anyway, which was my point.

Not saying there anything wrong with what you suggested, on the contrary. But like I said it's not the only explanation.

You didn't counteract anything I said in my previous post, you just made a snarky "And so the speculation continues...." comment.

I might add that nothing I said was speculation, it was fact. He doeslaugh and mock Indy. He does loosen his arms in a cocky fashion as he approaches him. He does stroll up to him casually. He does only use his fists throughout the fight.....
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Old 01-15-2008, 01:55 PM   #38
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You didn't counteract anything I said in my previous post, you just made a snarky "And so the speculation continues...." comment.
You simply made snarky claims, not putting forth any arguments. No need to argue against that. He could "clearly" have done the same things for a number of other reasons than those you stated.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
You simply made snarky claims, not putting forth any arguments. No need to argue against that. He could "clearly" have done the same things for a number of other reasons than those you stated.

.....such as?
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
.....such as?
He could've done what he did out of a need to show off for his friends, to test his fistfighting skills, to see how hard he could beat someone up with his worked-out muscles, or for no particular reason other than being mentally unstable or angry etc, etc.

Damn, you made me speculate about this.

Don't get me wrong though, as speculation can be a lot of fun and it's partly why I'm here. I just don't think this is the most interesting thing to speculate about.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
He could've done what he did out of a need to show off for his friends

There's nobody else around.

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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
to test his fistfighting skills

By fighting someone half his bodyweight and three inches shorter then him? Thats a great way to test your skills. Why don't you test your mathematical skills by adding 2 and 2?

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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
to see how hard he could beat someone up with his worked-out muscles

Then why does he stroll up so confidently, acting like he KNOWS he could beat up Indy with his worked-out muscles and is there to prove it?

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, or for no particular reason other than being mentally unstable or angry

You're reaching with that one, and I think you know it.

Look, since this is an Indiana Jones film, the simplest explanation is almost certainly the right one: he's an a sshole having a boring day, sees some guy in a hat trying to steal the plane he's working on and uses it as an opportunity to have some fun.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
Why don't you test your mathematical skills by adding 2 and 2?
You're really reaching with stuff like this, and you know it.
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Look, since this is an Indiana Jones film, the simplest explanation is almost certainly the right one: he's an a sshole having a boring day, sees some guy in a hat trying to steal the plane he's working on and uses it as an opportunity to have some fun.
Nah, he just got really pissed off at the sight of someone trying to steal the plane and wanted to beat him up for no other reason whatsoever.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:36 PM   #43
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You're really reaching with stuff like this, and you know it.

You didn't actually counteract what I said, you just resorted to using childish tactics of repeating something I said to mock me.

What next, "you're a big smelly poo-face"?

Like I said, testing your boxing skills by fighting someone half your weight and size is pointless. It'd be like testing your fitness by picking up a pencil.

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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
Nah, he just got really pissed off at the sight of someone trying to steal the plane and wanted to beat him up for no other reason whatsoever.

He didn't look pissed at all. He grins as soon as he sees Indy, as if to say "Ah, this is gonna be fun!". He laughs and mocks Indy, and bullies him throughout the fight by taunting him and jabbing him with half-effort punches.

The only time he ever gets pissed is when Indy bites his arm, and overwhelms him with those four punches at the end. But thats the same anger you have if you're picking up a spider to throw out the window and he bites you.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:43 PM   #44
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What next, "you're a big smelly poo-face"?
Actually, you're the only one resorting to the use of extremely childish language here. I was merely pointing out what you were doing.
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The only time he ever gets pissed is when Indy bites his arm, and overwhelms him with those four punches at the end. But thats the same anger you have if you're picking up a spider to throw out the window and he bites you.
Feel free. I'll take a different pick tho. Nothing stops the character from displaying a mischevious grin even though he's, for example, angry.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:59 PM   #45
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Actually, you're the only one resorting to the use of extremely childish language here. I was merely pointing out what you were doing.

Again, you didn't actually counteract what I said about improving your boxing skills by fighting someone much smaller and lighter than you.

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Nothing stops the character from displaying a mischevious grin even though he's, for example, angry.

Why would he be angry? Its not his plane, he's just a mechanic paid to work on it.
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
Sure, the scriptwriters' motivations. The motivations of the characters are whatever you happen to think they are.
Are you a relativist? In that case arguing with you would be pointless.

Why not go with the simple motivation that would seem readily apparent? Why suppose that a car moves because the ground is moving out from underneath it, rather than the simple explanation that the car itself moves?
Besides this expanation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oki9sedo
Look, since this is an Indiana Jones film, the simplest explanation is almost certainly the right one: he's an a sshole having a boring day, sees some guy in a hat trying to steal the plane he's working on and uses it as an opportunity to have some fun.
seems more fun than this explanation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
He could've done what he did out of a need to show off for his friends, to test his fistfighting skills, to see how hard he could beat someone up with his worked-out muscles, or for no particular reason other than being mentally unstable or angry etc, etc.
By which I mean, that you seem to be complicating the seemingly obvious motives of the character.
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:11 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by oki9Sedo
Again, you didn't actually counteract what I said about improving your boxing skills by fighting someone much smaller and lighter than you.
In terms of raw strength it's a no-brainer of course, but it depends on how big and strong you are versus how good your skill and technique is.
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Why would he be angry? Its not his plane, he's just a mechanic paid to work on it.
Sure, that's possible, but why wouldn't he be angry? He's a mechanic working in the Luftwaffe and could have a strong sense of loyalty and passion for the equipment he's working with.
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:12 PM   #48
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By which I mean, that you seem to be complicating the seemingly obvious motives of the character.

Thats exactly it. If this were an Jean-Luc Godard 1960s French New Wave film, I'd happily accept that there are many alternatives to whats most obvious.

But this is Indiana Jones. If something's obvious, you can almost certain thats what it is.
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:16 PM   #49
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Are you a relativist? In that case arguing with you would be pointless.
The more we distance ourselves from fairy tales and the more we approach thoughts and principles applying to the real world, my answer will increasingly have to be "no".

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Old 01-15-2008, 03:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 1ord3vil
He's a mechanic working in the Luftwaffe and could have a strong sense of loyalty and passion for the equipment he's working with.

If that were the reason, he would come across as angry - he comes across as enjoying the whole thing.

This is a simple film, so like I said, the most obvious answer is almost certainly the right one.

Not to mention that my reason is better and more fun than yours.
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