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View Poll Results: Who's your favorite? Why?
Belloq 57 45.60%
Toht 26 20.80%
Mola Ram 30 24.00%
Donovan 9 7.20%
Vogel 2 1.60%
Spalko 1 0.80%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-23-2011, 07:53 PM   #51
Von Stalhein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage
Who was your favorite villain? Why?
The SS-Standartenführer "Vogel". He marches around while carrying a riding crop/swagger stick in his leather-gloved hands at all times and only ever removes one of his black gloves to effeminately slap his victims with it, which makes him very sexy in an evil way. He also dry humped Indiana Jones on the tank. There are only a few ways in which he could have been a more evil Nazi-villain:

His entire SS-uniform should have been made of leather (similar to Hauptscharführer Ilsa Haupstein's uniform from the opening of "Hellboy", except that her peaked cap was not made of leather).

He should have slapped his riding crop/swagger stick against his leather breeches/jodhpurs in rage whenever he uttered one of his effeminate screams when humiliated by the Joneses or when ordering his men around(similar to Frau Farbissina in the final act of "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me").

The film should have included scenes in which (a) superior officer(s) inspects the Standartenführer/Oberst/Colonel and his unit, whom he would have greeted by clicking his heels, executing a Nazi salute and screaming "Achtung! Heil Hitler!" (similar to Obersturmbannführer Ilsa and her female Oberscharführer and Scharführer in "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS").

Finally, he should have worn leather SS-riding boots with spurs instead of Mister Minit replicas.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:23 AM   #52
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I agree that several of the other characters have attributes that are more "evil" than Belloq but he is Indys long time rival and had obviously taken Indys prize more than once. "Dr Jones, again we see there is nothing you possess that I cannot take away" "Once again Jones........ What was briefly yours is now mine"
And not only has he beat Jones in the past, he also survived against him in previous adventures. All the others who oppose Jones as far as villians don't live to see another adventure and going by the dialogue in Raiders, Belloq has gone against Indy and came out on top in the situation.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:58 PM   #53
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Mola Ram ..... he does have voodoo, mystical powers and a keen intelligence.... i think that of al the Indy villains he definitely is the most ruthless although Vogel comes a close second and i think that he should have been the main villain of LC and dispatched the hapless Donavan half way through ....thus again reasserting the ruthless pursuit of supernatural artefacts by the nazis....... Vogel is badass to the core!
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:20 AM   #54
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George Lucas didn't make it to the poll?

After all, he is every hero's worst enemy these days.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:19 PM   #55
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Belloq because he is his rival.
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:58 PM   #56
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No brainer for me: Mola Ram.

This man is pure evil, dabbling in voodoo, leading a cult, enslaving children...oh and incinerating people after ripping out their hearts.
He certainly looks imposing (and impressive), with his draped ceremonial robes and dramatic horned headdress, complete with shrunken head. I just prefer watching a more hands-on villain, one who isn't afraid to also get down and dirty and actually get involved in a scuffle with Indy...and what better place to have a fight in an Indiana Jones film than dangling off the side of a cliff?!

But Belloq comes in at a very close second, since he is evil in a much more understated, suave, debonaire kind of way - seductively evil, he almost lures one in and then uses them for his own gain, no matter the cost.
Plus his head explodes..so his death is pretty memorable too. Hah.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:59 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Character
Vogel comes a close second and i think that he should have been the main villain of LC and dispatched the hapless Donavan half way through ....thus again reasserting the ruthless pursuit of supernatural artefacts by the nazis....... Vogel is badass to the core!
I concur entirely.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:56 PM   #58
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I have to go with Walter Donavon. He played a great double agent.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:10 AM   #59
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I voted for Donovan because I always liked the double agent/traitor approach they took... and you really wanted to see him get his just deserts after shooting poor ole' Henry Jones Snr. The problem I have with Belloq as a villain is that I like him too much and I didn't actually want to see him die (so he's probably a more interesting character because of that, but not a better villain). Mola Ram was (IMHO) a Darth Maul, Jaws (James Bond) or Darth Vader (in ANH) type of character i.e. you'd believe he'd rip your head off, but there was not much going on behind the eyes. I always felt that TOD needed the Chatter Lal character to be a more obvious baddie a la Moff Tarkin, and then Mola Ram would have been a more effective and scary stooge/dog on a leash type villain.

Last edited by Darth Vile : 10-18-2011 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:52 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitzsche
Mola Ram was wicked. He deserved a more theatrical death though. I think the Sankara stone should have caught him on fire when he tried to grab it and he should have been flaming and smoking down toward the crocodiles.

I think George Lucas will implement exactly that via CGI into the upcoming Blu-Ray-Edition.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
I always felt that TOD needed the Chatter Lal character to be a more obvious baddie a la Moff Tarkin, and then Mola Ram would have been a more effective and scary stooge/dog on a leash type villain.
Oh, that would have been great! Now that I think about it, Lal is really underused in that movie. With more screentime, that slimy little bugger could have easily been my favorite Indy villain.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #62
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^ Ah man, you're right! I actually forgot about him, and he did play a pretty big part in the whole scheme too. I feel his character would've probably been much more memorable if his deleted scenes (which we know were filmed) were kept in tact.
I'd LOVE to see the whole exchange between him and Willie, after she escapes from the Thuggee guards and makes her way back to Indy's room - only to be caught and betrayed by Lal...
..perhaps we will see them, one day...
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:49 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daley
^ Ah man, you're right! I actually forgot about him, and he did play a pretty big part in the whole scheme too. I feel his character would've probably been much more memorable if his deleted scenes (which we know were filmed) were kept in tact.
I'd LOVE to see the whole exchange between him and Willie, after she escapes from the Thuggee guards and makes her way back to Indy's room - only to be caught and betrayed by Lal...
..perhaps we will see them, one day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattzilla2010
Oh, that would have been great! Now that I think about it, Lal is really underused in that movie. With more screentime, that slimy little bugger could have easily been my favorite Indy villain.

Yes indeed - He doesn't even have a proper death scene...
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:55 AM   #64
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I kinda dig Vogel. Love to hate Vogel.
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #65
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Toht because he had the best costume in the entire movie, had the creepiest haircut I've ever seen, and was just plain badass

Oh yeah, I had a question and didn't know where else to post it. During the bar fight, after Jones fires his first shot at the machine gunner, Marion throws a punch at Toht but she misses and knocks off his fedora. For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:43 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArnoldTohtFan
Toht because he had the best costume in the entire movie, had the creepiest haircut I've ever seen, and was just plain badass

Oh yeah, I had a question and didn't know where else to post it. During the bar fight, after Jones fires his first shot at the machine gunner, Marion throws a punch at Toht but she misses and knocks off his fedora. For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?

Just like Indy's hats, it's presumably not the same one.
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:10 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArnoldTohtFan
For the rest of the fight Toht is without his hat, and when he flees the burning tavern, it is presumably left in the bar. Yet when we see him later in Egypt, he has his hat back! How can this be explained?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Just like Indy's hats, it's presumably not the same one.

Toht might have known this hat shop in Kathmandu...

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Old 11-07-2011, 07:30 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Toht might have known this hat shop in Kathmandu...



...maybe to keep his pate straight in the weather!

Toht, Belloq and Dietrich cover such great villainous ground. They never quite achieved the same synergy.

Last edited by Rocket Surgeon : 11-07-2011 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:16 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Toht, Belloq and Dietrich cover such great villainous ground. They never quite achieved the same synergy.

You're right. The three of them were formidable opponents, though each had different motivations:

Belloq had no interest in the Nazis, just the Ark.

Dietrich was a man of duty with a job to do.

Toht was just having fun being nasty, with little interest in the Ark itself (at the end finding it hilarious that there was nothing in that shiny box).
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:18 PM   #70
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Toht is my vote, but I love them all. Belloq was actually the best because he was....the bad version of Indy as he actually told in ROTLA.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:56 PM   #71
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Don't know if anyone mentioned Colonel Dovchenko.

I'm not saying he's my favourite, but he's a great movie henchman, I think.

Cold, ruthless and efficient. And, of course, huge.

While everyone compares his character to Pat Roach's henchmen, its interesting to compare him to Vogel too, who he also - he's a Colonel who's the second main villain in the film, like him. That said, I'd say it was most definitely the Pat Roach villains they had in mind when coming up with this character, I think the fact that he's a Colonel like Vogel is coincidental, I doubt they had it in their minds to come up with a character reminiscent of him.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:56 PM   #72
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Don't know if anyone mentioned Colonel Dovchenko.

I'm not saying he's my favourite, but he's a great movie henchman, I think.

Cold, ruthless and efficient. And, of course, huge.

While everyone compares his character to Pat Roach's henchmen, its interesting to compare him to Vogel too - he's a Colonel who's the second main villain in the film, like him. That said, I'd say it was most definitely the Pat Roach villains they had in mind when coming up with this character, I think the fact that he's a Colonel like Vogel is coincidental, I doubt they had it in their minds to come up with a character reminiscent of him.

Anyway, its interesting to watch the two operate. Vogel is sadistic and enjoys hurting and killing people, whereas I think Dovchenko just sees that stuff as part of the job and doesn't take either pleasure or displeasure from it. He just coldly does what needs to be done.

I wonder how intelligent he is? His character in the film seems pretty stupid (he's very slow to react to Indy's attacks during their fight, and in particular falling for Indy's "give me a second to recover so I can grab my ha-GREAT BIG LOG TO HIT YOU WITH!!" trick was very stupid indeed), but thats not consistent with being a military officer.

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Old 12-08-2011, 08:00 PM   #73
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Anyway, its interesting to watch the two operate. Vogel is sadistic and enjoys hurting and killing people...
That is definitely the case.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:24 PM   #74
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I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days. I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this. The sadistic edge is there, but it's not the most interesting part, I would argue.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:26 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I don't think it's just that Vogel is sadistic, though. That's Toht's bag. The variant that Vogel introduces is that career officer who relishes the opportunity to get his hands dirty again, like in the old days. I think the moment where he's loosening his collar during the tank sequence suggests this. The sadistic edge is there, but it's not the most interesting part, I would argue.

Yes, Vogel has a bit of history to him, going by his medals.

Sporting both 1914 1st and 2nd Class Iron Crosses indicates he saw action.

The Blood Order Medal indicates one of the following: he was either a Party Member who took part in the Beer Hall putsch; or had rendered outstanding services to the Nazi party during its formative years; or had received it for outstanding service during the Austrian Anschluss of March 1938.

"The award became steeped in a deliberately cultivated mystique which guaranteed the wearer special privileges wherever he went." (Himmler’s Black Order: A History of the SS 1923-1945 (1997), Robin Lumsden.
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