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Old 07-20-2010, 01:49 AM   #76
Montana Smith
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
That's a baited question. If I said I have first-hand knowledge, there'd be no end to the insults and jokes made at my expense. I'd immediately be categorized as some attention-seeking, abductee-claiming wannabe. On the other hand, by denying having first-hand information, I open myself to somehow give validity to your words by default. So here's what I say:

Maybe I have first-hand knowledge, maybe I don't. Maybe I've met aliens, maybe I haven't. Maybe I've visited these places I speak of, maybe I haven't.

I'll let everyone in this forum weigh that one however they will. The negative, knee-jerk reactions I've heard a million times before so they don't mean anything to me. What does matter are those who are still interested.

That brings me to Stoo . . .

I'm sorry but you lead us to believe that you did possess some truth:

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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Trust me, ancient aliens is a valid theory, and during the 21st century it will prove to be THE most important aspect of our reality.

...

despite my knowledge of the alien reality as well as seeing the Bible and all religious faith as utter trash.

So you you've branded me "simple-minded", "immature", "kindergarten", "senseless", "a child in the playground", yet all I've been doing is posing alternate theories and urging caution. When you said that you had "knowledge of the alien reality" I presumed you were going to offer something new and different. It seems, however, that you only want to discuss the matter with those who already believe. I'm waiting to hear the information that will send me off in research that will sway my mind - as this would be a truly exciting discovery.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:08 AM   #77
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I'd rather not waste my time. I'd rather spend my energy talking to those who are interested and open-minded.

Sounds like you're just looking for people to agree with you.

Being afraid to open up your beliefs to scrutiny is the antithesis of good science.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:41 AM   #78
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I've done some reading (not extensive, mind you) on sites like Monks Mound in Illinois and Poverty Point in Louisiana. The ancient cultures of the Americas are extremely interesting. I'm aware that some with an interest in the ancient aliens idea have posited that these sites (and others) were designed/engineered by extraterrestrials and had some significance with regard to alleged alien involvement in ancient cultures. My struggle with those assertions is that in most cases, there seems to be some reasonable scientific accounting for how the structures were constructed. I'll grant that the role some of these sites played in ancient cultures is a matter of speculation (there are several theories regarding the use/uses of Poverty Point, for instance), but even the speculation seems to be grounded in what is scientifically known of early cultures. I guess what I'm driving at is that I've yet to read anything that raises sufficient doubt about a pre-Columbian culture's ability to build something like Monks Mound that would then lead me to consider other ideas, such as the ancient alien argument. Frankly, as it stands, it seems as though there are reasonable, earthbound explanations for many of things that proponents of the alien idea point to as "proof".
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:53 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Sounds like you're just looking for people to agree with you.

Being afraid to open up your beliefs to scrutiny is the antithesis of good science.

Hi, Lance,

Actually, I welcome differing opinions. I don't want people to "just agree". That's how religions start and that's dangerous. I only request that when folks respond, they ask questions WITHOUT lacing their comments with thinly veiled insults or outright close-minded attacks. This thread got off to a bad start because the first response was "See a psychiatrist". When I get a response like that, I know that person is NEVER going to be objective. I defended myself then other sharks, seeing the blood, started circling, and it continued from there. The forum never got off to a proper start because of cheap-shots and insults being thrown my way by those with a closed-mind.

Now, if someone who HASN'T been on the "He's loony" bandwagon is ready to ask real questions then I'll offer real answers. Contrary to the last few posts whom I'm not going to bother responding to (for the reasons stated above), I do indeed have "new" info and have a lot more to back up what I've said. I just haven't bothered offering it on the forum since they've already shown their colors.

Ever since I started saying things to the effect of "I'll wait for someone objective to join this thread", everything I've said has been purposefully vague, because I don't want to throw good money after bad, so-to-speak. These jokers aren't worth the effort, and they're not going to see outside the box anyway. Most recently, they said they were "hoping for something new". Funny, since I offered multiple theories they hadn't heard before (certainly they hadn't heard because they said as much and because they kept asking about them). But then they ridiculed them. Well, I'm not here to offer new things to ridicule. I'm here to offer new (and old) things for intellectual consideration.

If anyone wants to ask, as I said early on, objective and thought-through questions, I'll be glad to address them. But if I detect one insult in a post from here on, I won't acknowledge the post at all.

To finish, I welcome differing opinions. I'm mature. I can handle that. Consider this: I said in this thread that I was once a Christian, that I was as solid in faith as anyone could be, and that whole world-view was washed away by the data of ufology, that it turned my whole life upside-down.

How does one change their entire world-view based on facts if they're not willing to hear alternate opinions?
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:01 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Paden
I've done some reading (not extensive, mind you) on sites like Monks Mound in Illinois and Poverty Point in Louisiana. The ancient cultures of the Americas are extremely interesting. I'm aware that some with an interest in the ancient aliens idea have posited that these sites (and others) were designed/engineered by extraterrestrials and had some significance with regard to alleged alien involvement in ancient cultures. My struggle with those assertions is that in most cases, there seems to be some reasonable scientific accounting for how the structures were constructed. I'll grant that the role some of these sites played in ancient cultures is a matter of speculation (there are several theories regarding the use/uses of Poverty Point, for instance), but even the speculation seems to be grounded in what is scientifically known of early cultures. I guess what I'm driving at is that I've yet to read anything that raises sufficient doubt about a pre-Columbian culture's ability to build something like Monks Mound that would then lead me to consider other ideas, such as the ancient alien argument. Frankly, as it stands, it seems as though there are reasonable, earthbound explanations for many of things that proponents of the alien idea point to as "proof".

Welcome, Paden. And thank you for this point of view. It offers me a chance to clarify something from earlier in this thread.

When I say ancient moments are connected to aliens, I do not necessarily mean the aliens built them. More often than not, these monuments (save perhaps the Giza site and a few others) are madmade, but built to HONOR the aliens/gods. The Nazca Lines are a good example. Easily made by men, but for what purpose, since they're only visible from the air?

I believe many ancient cultures were "cargo cults". In a nutshell, a cargo cult is a primitive culture that comes into contact with a technologically advanced culture, then worships them as gods. On some South Pacific Islands, scientists have found natives who build bamboo versions of radios, airplanes and other 20th century devices, worshipping the "gods" who arrived in World War II (dumped their cargo on an "uninhabited island" as a staging area), then departed. One tribe even carved an airstrip out of the jungle to try and encourage the "gods" (in their WWII planes) to return.

When I see ancient monuments, in America or elsewhere, whose purpose is unclear, it's interesting to look at what commonalities these monuments have in proposed purpose with other cultures around the world. Construction side (you are right, most of them can indeed be made by primitive man), one must ask "what were they build for?" and "why do they share similar cultural purposes and gods and myths as cultures around the world who have had no contact with one another?"
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:57 PM   #81
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Hi, Lance,
Now, if someone who HASN'T been on the "He's loony" bandwagon is ready to ask real questions then I'll offer real answers. Contrary to the last few posts whom I'm not going to bother responding to (for the reasons stated above), I do indeed have "new" info and have a lot more to back up what I've said. I just haven't bothered offering it on the forum since they've already shown their colors.

Yup. Just going on avoiding my rather basic line of questioning. I honestly thought you'd argue for what you believe in, but I guess even you know that you can't hold up your theories to any kind of scrutiny.


But I do want to get into my new information regarding a race of zebra mussels building a pyramid in the Great Lakes using alien technology. Detractors like Matt deMille refuse to ask real questions about my theory. It's a shame that he's so close-minded, and follows the mainstream so doggedly. All I'm asking for is an open mind, and be able to stimulate an intellectual debate about zebra mussels using their alien-enhanced siphons for several generations to create an underwater archaeological find. Why can't anyone bring an objective view to the theory of a race of 2 inch long freshwater bivalves who were guided by extraterrestrial forces to build a mighty pyramid in line with L'Anse Aux Meadows and Carthage, the sites of the most powerful naval powers in their time? Now, I have tons more information regarding the zebra mussel civilization, but I am unwilling to due to the CHILDREN who will just mock my alternate theories without being able to widen their world-view. But I am willing to discuss the matter in more detail if anyone can actually ask objective questions instead of the current, childish spectators who are unwilling to do research for themselves.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:06 PM   #82
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But I do want to get into my new information regarding a race of zebra mussels building a pyramid in the Great Lakes using alien technology. Detractors like Matt deMille refuse to ask real questions about my theory. It's a shame that he's so close-minded, and follows the mainstream so doggedly. All I'm asking for is an open mind, and be able to stimulate an intellectual debate about zebra mussels using their alien-enhanced siphons for several generations to create an underwater archaeological find. Why can't anyone bring an objective view to the theory of a race of 2 inch long freshwater bivalves who were guided by extraterrestrial forces to build a mighty pyramid in line with L'Anse Aux Meadows and Carthage, the sites of the most powerful naval powers in their time? Now, I have tons more information regarding the zebra mussel civilization, but I am unwilling to due to the CHILDREN who will just mock my alternate theories without being able to widen their world-view. But I am willing to discuss the matter in more detail if anyone can actually ask objective questions instead of the current, childish spectators who are unwilling to do research for themselves.

Next thing you know you'll be claiming they formed a relationship with a girl squirrel in a space suit...

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Old 07-20-2010, 01:28 PM   #83
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Next thing you know you'll be claiming they formed a relationship with a girl squirrel in a space suit...

Evidence!

Most intriguing. I'd like to hear more about this. Will you tell me even if I initially express doubt and caution? (Which is the manner I was professionally taught to follow).
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:10 PM   #84
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Although the concept of female space squirrels forming relationships with the zebra mussels of Lake Michigan is a reality, I'd like this concept to addressed, in an open and frank manner, without the thinly-veiled insults of THE KINDERGÄRTNERS who inhabit this thread. Any doubt, caution, or concern expressed regarding the mating patterns of rodents and bivalves under an ancient glacial lake will be seen as it is--a close-minded attempt by the mainstream to make me and my theories appear silly. Why aren't people willing to hear alternate theories?
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:13 PM   #85
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Although the concept of female space squirrels forming relationships with the zebra mussels of Lake Michigan is a reality, I'd like this concept to addressed, in an open and frank manner, without the thinly-veiled insults of THE KINDERGÄRTNERS who inhabit this thread. Any doubt, caution, or concern expressed regarding the mating patterns of rodents and bivalves under an ancient glacial lake will be seen as it is--a close-minded attempt by the mainstream to make me and my theories appear silly. Why aren't people willing to hear alternate theories?

I'm still listening. I'd like to see more evidence. I think Nurhachi may have actual photographs of the mating rituals of the rodents and bivalves.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:21 PM   #86
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"I'd like to see more evidence?" See, this is what is so terribly wrong with our culture today. No one is willing to get out of the library and do any research for themselves. Instead they blindly memorize that which has been taught to them, or ask others for information, when they could be opening their minds to alternate theories, and going out in the field to make completely valid and well-thought out hypotheses. All I'm asking is that you question everything, but the INFANTILE inhabitants of the thread refuse to do that.

I will look into Nurhachi and his obtaining of zebra mussel porn, though. It's sure to be intriguing.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:43 PM   #87
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Exclamation Moderator Note

Now, now, fellas. Whether you're trying to turn people away from a discussion for not playing by your own invented rules as though the thread is your personal property or engaging in a rather elaborate parody of another Ravener that you know is not going to persuade the parodied of anything, you're probably doing something wrong. (There's also a pretty good chance you're running afoul of standard operating procedure if you persist in posting two or three posts in succession as though it were not possible to respond to multiple people in a single post.)

Play nice. Just because you're all more than literate doesn't mean you aren't being insulting.
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Old 07-20-2010, 03:03 PM   #88
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Play nice. Just because you're all more than literate doesn't mean you aren't being insulting.

That's the very crux of the matter. It appears that it isn't possible to debate in this thread with the original poster, since any alternate theories or expressions of doubt are met with the accusation of childishness or adherence to mainstream conspiracy.

Diplomacy didn't work. The only thing that would appear to work would be asking questions without a hint of doubt.

The promised "knowledge of alien reality" (as if that would be something we wouldn't already have heard about through other means) is not forthcoming.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:40 PM   #89
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That's the very crux of the matter. It appears that it isn't possible to debate in this thread with the original poster, since any alternate theories or expressions of doubt are met with the accusation of childishness or adherence to mainstream conspiracy.

Diplomacy didn't work. The only thing that would appear to work would be asking questions without a hint of doubt.

The promised "knowledge of alien reality" (as if that would be something we wouldn't already have heard about through other means) is not forthcoming.

For the sake of others, let me say this: One of the first things Gabeed said in this thread was, and I quote: "I don't know how you feel like you can elicit any response but laughter with gems like this" And Montana Smith's first words were "There is no hard evidence".

I gave Montana the benefit of the doubt. At least he wasn't insulting, at first. But both these guys quickly degenerated into name-calling. Debates are built with maturity and open-minds. "There is no hard evidence" pretty much says there's no point in talking to people like that. Now, if the words were something more like "I've never seen any hard evidence, but I'd like to, can you show me?" I might have been willing to go further and say more. Bottom line, Gabeed and Montana Smith are immature hypocrites. "It appears that it isn't possible to debate in this thread with the original poster, since any alternate theories or expressions of doubt are met with the accusation of childishness or adherence to mainstream conspiracy" indeed. Um, you guys started the insults and accusations, not me.

So, for the benefit of other readers in this thread, I'll say it again: Doubt is good. I'd love to exchange info. I'd love to offer more info, facts, whatever. But only so long as the person is willing to objectively look at it. So, regardless of what guys like Montana want to say about "can't have doubts", I say rubbish. Doubt is fine. Cynicism is not.

I understand this material is difficult to accept. Doubt is welcome. But being so difficult to accept, a case must be built. I put forward theories, and intended to follow with facts. But before the facts were given due-process the name-calling and close-minded games began. Gabeed and Montana derail a thread with immature behavior and then wonder when it goes nowhere? Well, I'm happy to continue to build the case, back my theories, and offer evidence, but it IS a building process. Like I said, it's difficult to accept, so it must proceed slowly. I don't just come outright and say mind-blowing things, you have to work up to them. Human comprehension has limits which must be stretched, like working muscles (and yes, compared to the full story, things like aliens building pyramids are not mind-blowing, just academic).

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Old 07-20-2010, 08:54 PM   #90
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Matt, could you possibly put some of your facts forward? Because thus far you're mostly just posting about the thread and the other people in it. You're not going to get anyone to engage with you this way; you're just going to keep scaring people off. And if you're looking for childishness, "he started it!" is a pretty good direction to look in.

So - can we drop the persecuted stance and just engage with the issues? I think if you give people some credit and just come out with it instead of trying to build up to some big reveal, you'll make this much more pleasant for all of us.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:00 PM   #91
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Certainly, Attila. And you're right. I admit I've been part of the problem. Thank you for setting me straight.

As for facts, certainly. Please bring up a topic, any topic to elaborate on, be they ones I've mentioned or anything else pertaining to ancient aliens. Chances are I can offer up some interesting data.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:05 PM   #92
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Please bring up a topic, any topic to elaborate on, be they ones I've mentioned or anything else pertaining to ancient aliens. Chances are I can offer up some interesting data.
Have you been visited by aliens, sentient beings from another planet?
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:19 PM   #93
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'm probably breaking my own rules and offering "too much too fast", but in light of Attila's pointing out how I've added to a problem, I'll offer these up out of good will. I do, however, ask this: While earlier threads were based on others' work, this is a personal account of my own, and as such it is a sensitive issue. It took me twenty years to even speak of any of it to anyone. Please be respectful.

I have had indeed had Close Encounters of the 1st, 3rd and 4th kinds.

1st kind: On numerous occasions, I have (with witnesses) seen the typical "lights in the sky". Different witnesses, different dates. One was a golden ball that zigzagged through the sky. Another was a streak of light too fat and too slow to be a shooting star, meteor or any other "normal" celestial phenomena. One witness was an astro-physicist (graduate from West Point, with honors) and she couldn't explain this either.

3rd kind: On many different dates, many different houses, I have seen entities clearly not of this world. I do NOT claim to be an abductee. Only a witness. Nor do I believe these were "extra-terrestrials" (although that's certainly possible). Just that these were not human and from "somewhere else". I believe the veil between dimensions is easily lifted. It's like our brains are radios and we can tune into different frequencies, different realities. Sometimes by accident. Or maybe these things WANTED to be seen, I don't know. All I remember is seeing them, fearing them, having my psyche ripped open by them, and often times fainting. However, I will never forget those eyes. I have, later in life, had a gun to my head, seen people die, and been in various other "see your life" moments, and they did little to faze me. That's not "tough talk", either. That's a testament to the degree to which these earlier experiences of seeing these entities had on me. Once you've looked into alien eyes, there's nothing else that compares. It's cerebral overload, and the 3-dimensional mundane world pales in comparison to it.

4th kind: In 2nd grade I disappeared. Literally. In the middle of the schoolyard I vanished for 3 hours. Over a hundred adults combed the grounds and could not find me. What's more, when I WAS found, it was in the middle of the search zone, which was a very sparely wooded area (line of sight was easily a hundred feet and there was little to no undergrowth). Furthermore, my skin was blue from the cold, yet I was wearing a thick (sports) jacket and it was May (the school principal and my brother found me, and they were both wearing shorts and T's because it was a warm day). I only remembered fragments of this story until it was told to me by my family. Later, I checked records (including police reports) and they back it up. I disappeared -- seemingly into thin air -- for hours, in a small area, and hundreds of people could not find me. I don't have any recollection what happened during those hours. To me it seemed like ten minutes. The phenomena of "missing time" associated with UFOs seemed likely, but I did undergo regression years later and did not recall anything. I'm totally left in the dark about this one.

These are the nutshell versions. Let me know if I should elaborate on any of them.

While I do not know if any of these beings were aliens from another planet, they certainly were not from here. Extra-terrestrial, extra-dimensional, the unknown -- Conventional science says none of it is real. Thus, if any one IS real (and they certainly are to me, I've seen 'em!), then all other "impossibilities" must be put back on the table as a possibility. I lean towards extra-terrestrial intervention for ancient works simply due to their seeming obsession with the stars (and by extension, outer space). If extra-dimensional beings built something, would outer space have any more meaning to them than to us? Maybe, but maybe not. It's 50/50. But since most if not all ancient enigmas of structure seem to point to the stars, I'm playing the odds that any non-human intervention was due to extra-terrestrial beings who thus came FROM the stars, rather than extra-dimensional ones.

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Old 07-20-2010, 09:24 PM   #94
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'm probably breaking my own rules and offering "too much too fast", but in light of Attila's pointing out how I've added to a problem, I'll offer these up out of good will.
Thanks for being so candid, it should only help to illuminate.


I'm curious about your educational background. What notable schools have you attended/graduated?
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:30 PM   #95
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I admit, my schooling is in entertainment, not science. I have a Master's Degree from the AFI. Sure, as an entertainer some may look with doubt upon my ability to study science, but there's no reason the two aren't interchangeable. After all, Carl Segan began writing fiction (like Contact) and did quite well at it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:52 PM   #96
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I admit, my schooling is in entertainment, not science. I have a Master's Degree from the AFI. Sure, as an entertainer some may look with doubt upon my ability to study science, but there's no reason the two aren't interchangeable. After all, Carl Segan began writing fiction (like Contact) and did quite well at it.
No need for apologies. Hopefully you won' take this the wrong way, have you ever ingested a mind altering substance. If so, how often?
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:10 PM   #97
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Don't worry, it's well taken.

I've never had any mind-altering substances. I've never smoked anything, not even cigarettes. I didn't even have alcohol until age 32, and even today I'm a very light drinker (I just don't have the taste for it). When I do drink, it takes a LOT to effect me. My favorite is (of course) Dan Aykroyd's Crystal Head Vodka. In one hour I downed 12 shots of the stuff (it's 80 proof). It took until shot 5 for me to feel anything at all and I was still able to dance after 10. And 6 hours later, when I woke up from sleep, I had zero hangover. In fact the first thing I did was go to the gym for a 2-hour workout.

I went through a battery of psychological tests for years around age 25, and a dozen psychiatrists all said I passed with flying colors, that these were memories and not inventions, conscious or unconscious.

I keep in gold health. I eat healthy and workout regularly. I have friends who are the opposite, and firmly believe that, seeing the results, that mental stability, temper and intellectual capacity are greatly influenced by what we eat and how much we exercise. The brain is electrified chemicals after all, so when we give it more vitamins and positive chemicals (such as endorphins released when working out) it tends to function better. I need less sleep than most people, my metabolism is fast, and I've even beaten asthma this way. I also get a lot of sunlight too for Vitamin D.

So, there's about zero chance that mind-altering drugs or anything like that influenced my stories. Plus, these stories have not changed (many different individuals have kept records) over decades. The lack of change in the tale over time must be the result of it being memory, and objective reality, not a fantasy.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:16 PM   #98
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Don't worry, it's well taken.
Thanks, another dicey one: has anyone in your family had a history or been diagnosed with mental illness?
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:20 PM   #99
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Don't worry, I'm not offended. Tough questions need to be asked. I know my story is hard to swallow so if I were you I'd be checkin the foundations too.

Anyway, no mental illness. My family is pretty level-headed. My father was a career firefighter and my mother a legal secretary. My grandmother is still alive at age 90. My other grandparents died early. One was a WWII Normandy vet who drank himself to death, one died of cancer, and one died of Parkinson's disease, but that's about it as far as disease. Not much heritage of mental illness though.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:35 PM   #100
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True to your word, you're handling this well. What precipitated the "battery of psychological tests?
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