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Old 09-17-2010, 03:10 PM   #51
Matt deMille
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Actually, Finn. I agree. No disrespect taken. I never claimed to be a scientist. In fact, just the opposite. I started posting about aliens because I wanted to encourage others -- better qualified than I -- to look at it. I know I do not know the scientific rules. However, I do have to disagree to that being where a lot of my trouble comes from. Some of it, sure. But the majority, I believe, is rooted elsewhere.

My initial trouble was the subject matter itself being met with scorn. I defended myself. Bullies don't like being stood up to. It snowballed from there.

Certainly my theories, ideas, suggestions, whatever would be better served if I knew better the, pardon the expression, "scientific etiquette". But I don't think that would have made much of a difference. People who want to flame will flame. After all, I've tried being reasonable, making peace-offers, backstepping and even apologizing many times. But those who give me heat have never done any of the above.

Switching gears a bit, I can certainly see your point now, about scientific peer review, and I did misunderstand. I thank you for clarifying it for me. This is one step I'm glad to take.

Going back a bit, I'd like to offer this: Since it seems some of us will never agree (me, Stoo, RA, Gabeed), how about this? We simply agree that we disagree. If we post in the same threads, let's just keep it civil. If you don't agree, sure, say so, but without the antics. I'm willing to drop all the past flaming right here, right now, and just say "Truce", provided neither side encourages it again. It only takes a spark to start a fire, after all. And, should I say something that *does* insult someone (as my blanket statements of scorn for the scientific establishment have apparently done), then please correct me on it before starting the fires. I'm willing to offer a little latitude for similarly misconstrued intentions. For example, and as a gesture of good faith, Stoo: Such a statement as "supposed" is a good example of the sort of thing that can be taken out of context or too far. If the truce is accepted, I will email you, privately, my Egyptian story. It must be kept in confidence, however, as there are reasons I don't list it publicly.

I will wait a good amount of time before checking back in at The Raven, to give folks a good, reasonable amount of time to consider what I've said.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:13 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Actually, Finn. I agree. No disrespect taken. I never claimed to be a scientist. In fact, just the opposite. I started posting about aliens because I wanted to encourage others -- better qualified than I -- to look at it. I know I do not know the scientific rules. However, I do have to disagree to that being where a lot of my trouble comes from. Some of it, sure. But the majority, I believe, is rooted elsewhere.



Then why in the hell do you think you're qualified to say that science is wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
My initial trouble was the subject matter itself being met with scorn. I defended myself. Bullies don't like being stood up to. It snowballed from there.

Oh whatever, Matt. More CYA. You came out the gates with scorn in your very first post. You just like to ignore these things because of your self-victimizing complex.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:17 PM   #53
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Has the ceasefire started, or has it already ended?
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:41 PM   #54
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You want control.

You want to orchestrate the narrative with in this Community.

These are the personalities that make up The Raven.

The community you have recently joined.

You are a willing participant and continue to be, misunderstood or not.

If you haven't noticed all the crying in the world doesn't change anything. Crying and complaining only prolong your difficulty getting along.

These are the people you're sharing the Raven with...
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:25 AM   #55
Matt deMille
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Well, I tried. If my above post doesn't show a willingness to cooperate, then it's obvious that nothing will. It's also obvious that some people here just want trouble, no matter what cheap excuses they throw out there to try and justify their ridiculous behavior. After all, extending a hand in truce is supposed to get everyone past all arguments of "who started it". One side can just as easily make their claim as the other. So, RA and Sharkey have shown their true colors beyond any doubt.

As for Stoo and Gabeed, since no response was given, I leave the offer open to you. Having heard nothing one way or the other, I will, in good faith, assume there's a truce with us, and simply let your posts to come demonstrate your position.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:39 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Well, I tried. If my above post doesn't show a willingness to cooperate, then it's obvious that nothing will. It's also obvious that some people here just want trouble, no matter what cheap excuses they throw out there to try and justify their ridiculous behavior. After all, extending a hand in truce is supposed to get everyone past all arguments of "who started it". One side can just as easily make their claim as the other. So, RA and Sharkey have shown their true colors beyond any doubt.

As for Stoo and Gabeed, since no response was given, I leave the offer open to you. Having heard nothing one way or the other, I will, in good faith, assume there's a truce with us, and simply let your posts to come demonstrate your position.

Youre like a dog wiping its ass on every floor in the house! You say the same crap over and over across threads derailing trains like some psycho terrorist. Use the friggin PM option. You just go on with your alien crusade and victim tour drumming along.

This has got to be trolling. You continually bait with your off topic posts. Enough already. Yeah we know you won't answer the abusive posts...just let me say this...

What the hell man.


All you do is keep this crap rolling and rolling. You think your gong to get the last word?


You wonder why you can have a conversation in a thread? Look no further than post 55.

I think I'll start a thread with posts of all the times you said you were going to ignore people but just ignored your own words.

Last edited by Sharkey : 09-18-2010 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:23 AM   #57
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Exposed?

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Old 09-18-2010, 11:42 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
As for Stoo and Gabeed, since no response was given, I leave the offer open to you. Having heard nothing one way or the other, I will, in good faith, assume there's a truce with us, and simply let your posts to come demonstrate your position.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've been nothing but cordial to you outside the Ancient Alien thread, and have no personal vendetta against you. But if you continue to spout off unsubstantiated or ill-researched theories in said thread, it's likely that I'll call you out on that.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
[

Interesting video. But, is there a second half? I just cuts off.

Personally, I have a really weird take on the "moon hoax" theory. I'm not sure if this is the thread for it, but it's been raised, so I guess I'll respond.

I wonder if *both* are true: We *did* go to the moon, but we *also* faked some elements of it. Certainly there was plausibility that we faked the entire thing, but I give humans more credit than that. However, is it possible that what was found on the moon was so different than what was expected that faked-footage on standby was broadcast in place of the live feed? Or, perhaps more simply, that transmission was lost for whatever reason and "backup landing footage" was used to placate the world audience?

There are many things that could have gone wrong with the cameras of the time (especially in the vacuum of space), and there's no way the government would just say "Ooops, sorry, no broadcast of the landing". It actually makes a lot of sense to have "backup" footage ready, for a multitude of possibilities. But if that happened, the reason as to why it would have been used is up for grabs.

.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey
Youre like a dog wiping its ass on every floor in the house! You say the same crap over and over across threads derailing trains like some psycho terrorist. Use the friggin PM option. You just go on with your alien crusade and victim tour drumming along.

This has got to be trolling. You continually bait with your off topic posts. Enough already.

So, why don't you say the same thing about ResidentAlien? After all, he makes posts like this in "Pirates", a thread not at all connected to aliens;

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Pirates never really existed. It was just a ploy by aliens in ancient times so that hipster kids of today could have a group of people to idolize as if they were Gods.

I should know-- I was abducted by pirates and held for ransom. It's really traumatizing-- they kept singing about their rum and threatening to take my Johnson. I'm kind of attached to it.

So, where's your flaming for this guy? Only for me, right? Shows prejudice. In fact, you're often agreeing with his posts, however juvenile they are, when it's an attack on me. That's why I call you a "gang". Pack animal mentality. Kind of undoes your every argument about being rational, scientific, etc.

.....

And since we're in a thread called "The Intelligent Professor", I'd like to use this to raise a point about that pack mentality: Human beings are, after all, still pack animals, biologically speaking. Most of us operate that way without realizing it. To me, it's not necessarily a bad thing (unless it becomes personal), but it does contribute to what I have said before about the mainstream. Part of the reluctance to take chances, I believe, comes from that "safety of the pack" that's in our DNA. Again, it's not a bad thing, but rather, I think we should give a bit more credit than we do to those who are bold enough to break from the pack and take the big risks. More attention should be given to those scientists and other researchers whose efforts focus on things that are not yet accepted or even fringe -- At the very least, give 'em credit for daring to go there, rather than the ridicule they tend to get instead (especially in the media).

Last edited by Matt deMille : 09-18-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:24 PM   #60
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You know Matt, when you opened threads like "Good '30's songs" and even "Aliens And Open Minds" I posted in them. Why would you validate what Sharkey says by quoting him and then whine about him in my thread?

You're worse in my opinion for constantly writing that you're above it and will ignore it. I'm tired.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:41 PM   #61
Matt deMille
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Well, RS, all I can say is that when someone attacks me, I defend myself. Call it "whining" if you will, but I don't bring up my attackers in threads. They come to me. They bring themselves into it. I consider their antics to be the real "whining", because they're like children trying to get attention. Myself, I try to be rational and reasonable.

Sharkey (aptly named) came out of the blue and attacked me for no reason;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey
You are officially blinded to science.

No where in your incoherent ramblings is there anything even remotely resembling an understanding of science. Everyone who has read them is now more stupid because of them. May God have mercy on your soul...or whatever hybrid pirate alien you recruit for.

What did I say in this thread, prior to his posting, to justify that? If he had come along and simply said, as Finn did, that I'm not recognizing or respecting scientific protocol, that would have been fine. But in a few sentences he manages to cram in as many insults and stupid comments as he can.

I'm not the bad guy here. Disagree with me if you will. Science is strengthened by opposing opinions. But do so in a reasonable way. As long as people continue to ridicule me, then I will simply expose their foolishness for what it is. If you see me as the worse of the two for that, I'm sorry but I have to say that's your shortcoming, not mine.

Last edited by Matt deMille : 09-18-2010 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:48 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Well, RS, all I can say is that when someone attacks me, I defend myself. Call it "whining" if you will, but I don't bring up my attackers in threads. They come to me. They bring themselves into it. I consider their antics to be the real "whining", because they're like children trying to get attention. Myself, I try to be rational and reasonable.

Sharkey (aptly named) came out of the blue and attacked me for no reason;

What did I say in this thread, prior to his posting, to justify that? If he had come along and simply said, as Finn did, that I'm not recognizing or respecting scientific protocol, that would have been fine. But in a few sentences he manages to cram in as many insults and stupid comments as he can.

I'm not the bad guy here. Disagree with me if you will. Science is strengthened by opposing opinions. But do so in a reasonable way. As long as people continue to ridicule me, then I will simply expose their foolishness for what it is. If you see me as the worse of the two for that, that's your shortcoming, not mine.
I didn't start it...sigh.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:50 PM   #63
Matt deMille
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I didn't start it...sigh.

How about we just let it be? I'm tired too. And this isn't going to go anywhere good. How about we just dismiss it as a misunderstanding? (no blame, either way)

Hand extended: Truce?
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
How about we just let it be? I'm tired too. And this isn't going to go anywhere good. How about we just dismiss it as a misunderstanding? (no blame, either way)

Hand extended: Truce?
Truce from what? How have I maligned you?

You just continue to be you, despite what you say.

Regarding the other guys, RA has been around a long time, and these type of appeals have been made to him to me and on and on. He posts where and how he choses and doesn't claim to be anything but, well, a dick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
I've never claimed to be anything but a dick.

You can continue to lay blame at others feet but you engage in it just as lustily...though you always say you're above it and you're just going to ignore them.

Do as you will...

Last edited by Rocket Surgeon : 09-18-2010 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:56 PM   #65
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Well, okay.

But I do have one question: If it's okay to "be a dick" around here, simply because that's someone claims to be, then, that's considered acceptable behavior at The Raven? That makes it okay for someone like that to be supported in threads or gets backing from posters?

I really hope that's not the case, because I'd like to think a lot better of this site.
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:49 PM   #66
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If it's okay to "be a dick" around here, simply because that's someone claims to be, then, that's considered acceptable behavior at The Raven? That makes it okay for someone like that to be supported in threads or gets backing from posters?
Well I guess we see things from different vantage points. I don't endorse being a dick, but having been one from time to time, (for various reasons good and bad), understand it in others...to a degree. RA's "guest status" proves there are limits.

I'd be surprised if you could provide any support or backing for his rancor. His command of rational thought is inversely proportional to his fuse, a combination which can be entertaining to say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
I really hope that's not the case, because I'd like to think a lot better of this site.
You go on hoping, I'm only around here because I agree with the free hand we're given, (now that can be taken two ways....)



Maybe we should start a "Therapy Thread"...

Last edited by Rocket Surgeon : 09-18-2010 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:11 PM   #67
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Maybe we should start a "Therapy Thread"...

Actually, I often wondered if there shouldn't be a "Flaming thread", a place that's no-holds-barred, but with the stipulation that it doesn't happen anywhere else, and anything questionable, meaning anything that is perceived as inappropriate could be rerouted to this thread. Oh well.

A flaming thread would give people a chance to get it out of their system, sparing all other threads from the derailment which happens.
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:30 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Actually, I often wondered if there shouldn't be a "Flaming thread", a place that's no-holds-barred, but with the stipulation that it doesn't happen anywhere else, and anything questionable, meaning anything that is perceived as inappropriate could be rerouted to this thread. Oh well.

A flaming thread would give people a chance to get it out of their system, sparing all other threads from the derailment which happens.

I don't think The Raven should cater for bad temper anywhere. Not only would such a "Flaming thread" become a centre for bullying and bile, but it's effects would be felt across any other threads those members found each other in. If disagreements can't be worked out in civil tones, rather than in a metaphorical Fight Club, then I don't believe The Raven is the right place for such members.

Our recent "Guest" does have an extremely short fuse, but as I've noted before, there are alternate ways to defuse such situations. As Rocket just wrote, he does provide humour with it. However, his personal mark in the sand is much further from the point I'm going to cross. I just think that there's little merit in going so far that you meet yourself coming back. Few arguments are won when civility gives way to antagonism.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:51 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt deMille
But I do have one question: If it's okay to "be a dick" around here, simply because that's someone claims to be, then, that's considered acceptable behavior at The Raven? That makes it okay for someone like that to be supported in threads or gets backing from posters?
ResidentAlien dances on a fine line between what's acceptable and what's not. We've had similar cases before him and likely will after. They all have ended up tripping on the wrong side of the line and have regularly got their knuckles rapped for it.

At the moment he's the only specimen of this type around because well, eventually they either get tired of their own charade or go so far in testing the limits they end up doing something that finally makes the cup spill.

But now I must tell you to get back on topic. If one wishes to discuss our moderation guidelines further, feel free to head over to the Feedback section.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
Well, okay.

But I do have one question: If it's okay to "be a dick" around here, simply because that's someone claims to be, then, that's considered acceptable behavior at The Raven? That makes it okay for someone like that to be supported in threads or gets backing from posters?

I really hope that's not the case, because I'd like to think a lot better of this site.

you should have just ignored him. it would have saved pages and pages of pointless arguements.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:34 AM   #71
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Back on topic??

Wow. Out of 70 posts, I'd guess at least 50 should have been left to PMs where two people can bicker back and forth endlessly without completely derailing a thread.

So this is my attempt to get things back on track.

One of the great hoaxes of all time, in my opinion, was the Piltdown forgery.

Modern human skull + orangutan jawbone = "missing link"

And though relatively simple, it took 40 years until the hoax was exposed in 1953. Great lesson for scientists to always stay on their toes. Don't take anything at face value, particularly if it seems to completely back up your own personal theories. If it does, that's when you should be even more skeptical.

While most people say it was Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes / Lost World author) who did it, I believe he really just remains one of the top three or four 'prime suspects.'

And, in case anyone forgot what this thread was supposed to be about....
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What are some of the outlandish hoaxes or interpretations you've encountered in your own travels? Hopefully the focus of the thread will be perception and its confirmation or its refutation.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:46 AM   #72
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One of the great hoaxes of all time, in my opinion, was the Piltdown forgery.

Modern human skull + orangutan jawbone = "missing link"

And though relatively simple, it took 40 years until the hoax was exposed in 1953. Great lesson for scientists to always stay on their toes. Don't take anything at face value, particularly if it seems to completely back up your own personal theories. If it does, that's when you should be even more skeptical.

Good one, goodeknight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
While most people say it was Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes / Lost World author) who did it, I believe he really just remains one of the top three or four 'prime suspects.'

He was also responsible for giving credence to the fairy hoax. Young girls drew fairies, painted them and pinned them on wires to photograph them. They claimed these were photos of real fairies and the hoax gained support, not least from Doyle.

This one was firmly debunked when the girls themselves came clean.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cooper.htm

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Old 09-20-2010, 09:00 AM   #73
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Why must we bicker over who built what and how?

Since my return to the Raven and to the archeology forum I have found this one thread to be intolerable. I do understand and accept that each and everyone one of us has an opinion on one subject or another but when we degenerate to name calling and cursing that detracts from what we got into this line of study to begin with to first locate non-refutable fact which unlike what Doctor Jones said will lead to the truth. Truths with out facts are lies and Facts that can lead to untruths ie misconceptions are also lies we must learn to differentiate one from another. I have always been so amazed that many subscribers to this forum must place a fantastic reason for ()always my favorite) the construction of the pyramids both middle eastern and Meso-American I have heard and read many books and articles on both sides of the spectrum and as always I say prove it with out a shadow of a doubt that aliens, animal headed god like beings or fallen angels helped in the construction of the edifices I myself prefer the Occum razor principle the simplest answer is the correct one It is a proven fact that at the time of the building of the Great Pyrimids on the Giza plateau that the Egyptians had already enginered and constructed mighty cities and stepped pyrimids I belive it was Imhotep (not the guy from the mummy movie) under Pharoh Gozer who originated the non-stepped or modified the non-stepped design. Did Imhotep or his forunners have superscience alien help I say no, Egyptian mathematicians and engineers already had the knowldge passed down from (wait for it) the Babylonians,Sumerians, and Chaldean cultures and these chaps were no slouches when it came to building objects so it is with in reason that taking this academic knowldge the Egyptian boffins(love that word)modified and expanded upon it to allow them to use geometry as well as astronomy (Oh the biblical tower of Babel was a early observatory )to build and position the three great pyramids of Egypt in the proper land based and astronomical based position. So mystery solved no little green men,insect, or animal headed gods helped build the pyrimids just men like you and me had the drive and imagination to take that one step beyond the norm. We ( as in the historical and archeological community) know that the first attempts at pyrimid building in Egypt didn't quite work out as designed but through trial and error and the input of new information the ancient engineers ( Thank You L. Sprauge de Camp) was able to get said monuments
built. Meso-America the same way the Aztec and Mayan pyramids were stepped pyramids built by men not visiting gods. I noticed on the post that references were made to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, while Doyle was a trickster and a joker at times my answer to Piltdown is still out on his involvement in it.
But if one wishes to look at his or I should say his created characters reactions to facts vs non facts or suppositions I recommend you all go to the Sherlock Holmes quote site concerning Holmes ideas on observation and deduction their are sparks of truth that we as historians and archeologist fans should take to heart. His one creation I enjoyed more than Holmes was George Edward Challenger his foray (Challengers) into the world of spiritualism I was not pleased with but as of the writing of Land of the Mist Doyle had joined the spiritualist movement so Challengers foray into it was natural. But the three proceeding stories about Challenger was always my favorite and yes Challenger in three of them of them did present outlandish theories but as we can see in the end he was proved right. I on the one hand applaud those who stick by there convictions concerning if EIBs helped build the pyramids and other supra-normal beings and incidents but as I stated earlier my friends you have to prove it. I do understand that in the two or three disciplines that this site encompasses i.e. Anthropology, Archeology, and History that unlike say the hard sciences of say mathematics, chemistry, and the like we need hard artifacts and proven written records unlike the hard sciences we cannot prove by our theories or ideas by testing them, as they can do in say chemistry and certain non-quantum forms of mathematics that's what we must show and reference is verifiable facts by verifiable scientist. Well I believe I have obviated enough and I will await your replies.
James Campbell
Ba Ma (pending)"The true scientific mind is not to be tied down by its own conditions of time and space. It builds itself an observatory erected upon the border line of present, which separates the infinite past from the infinite future. From this sure post it makes its sallies even to the beginning and to the end of all things." George Edward Challenger
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:07 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by China Jim
Since my return to the Raven and to the archeology forum I have found this one thread to be intolerable. I do understand and accept that each and everyone one of us has an opinion on one subject or another but when we degenerate to name calling and cursing that detracts from what we got into this line of study to begin with to first locate non-refutable fact which unlike what Doctor Jones said will lead to the truth. Truths with out facts are lies and Facts that can lead to untruths ie misconceptions are also lies we must learn to differentiate one from another. I have always been so amazed that many subscribers to this forum must place a fantastic reason for ()always my favorite) the construction of the pyramids both middle eastern and Meso-American I have heard and read many books and articles on both sides of the spectrum and as always I say prove it with out a shadow of a doubt that aliens, animal headed god like beings or fallen angels helped in the construction of the edifices I myself prefer the Occum razor principle the simplest answer is the correct one It is a proven fact that at the time of the building of the Great Pyrimids on the Giza plateau that the Egyptians had already enginered and constructed mighty cities and stepped pyrimids I belive it was Imhotep (not the guy from the mummy movie) under Pharoh Gozer who originated the non-stepped or modified the non-stepped design. Did Imhotep or his forunners have superscience alien help I say no, Egyptian mathematicians and engineers already had the knowldge passed down from (wait for it) the Babylonians,Sumerians, and Chaldean cultures and these chaps were no slouches when it came to building objects so it is with in reason that taking this academic knowldge the Egyptian boffins(love that word)modified and expanded upon it to allow them to use geometry as well as astronomy (Oh the biblical tower of Babel was a early observatory )to build and position the three great pyramids of Egypt in the proper land based and astronomical based position. So mystery solved no little green men,insect, or animal headed gods helped build the pyrimids just men like you and me had the drive and imagination to take that one step beyond the norm. We ( as in the historical and archeological community) know that the first attempts at pyrimid building in Egypt didn't quite work out as designed but through trial and error and the input of new information the ancient engineers ( Thank You L. Sprauge de Camp) was able to get said monuments
built. Meso-America the same way the Aztec and Mayan pyramids were stepped pyramids built by men not visiting gods. I noticed on the post that references were made to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, while Doyle was a trickster and a joker at times my answer to Piltdown is still out on his involvement in it.
But if one wishes to look at his or I should say his created characters reactions to facts vs non facts or suppositions I recommend you all go to the Sherlock Holmes quote site concerning Holmes ideas on observation and deduction their are sparks of truth that we as historians and archeologist fans should take to heart. His one creation I enjoyed more than Holmes was George Edward Challenger his foray (Challengers) into the world of spiritualism I was not pleased with but as of the writing of Land of the Mist Doyle had joined the spiritualist movement so Challengers foray into it was natural. But the three proceeding stories about Challenger was always my favorite and yes Challenger in three of them of them did present outlandish theories but as we can see in the end he was proved right. I on the one hand applaud those who stick by there convictions concerning if EIBs helped build the pyramids and other supra-normal beings and incidents but as I stated earlier my friends you have to prove it. I do understand that in the two or three disciplines that this site encompasses i.e. Anthropology, Archeology, and History that unlike say the hard sciences of say mathematics, chemistry, and the like we need hard artifacts and proven written records unlike the hard sciences we cannot prove by our theories or ideas by testing them, as they can do in say chemistry and certain non-quantum forms of mathematics that's what we must show and reference is verifiable facts by verifiable scientist. Well I believe I have obviated enough and I will await your replies.
James Campbell
Ba Ma (pending)"The true scientific mind is not to be tied down by its own conditions of time and space. It builds itself an observatory erected upon the border line of present, which separates the infinite past from the infinite future. From this sure post it makes its sallies even to the beginning and to the end of all things." George Edward Challenger

Jim, this isn't the 'pyramid' thread. You want Dr. Tyree's philosophy class right down the hall (it's the door with "Ancient Aliens" on it.)

This one's finally gotten back to hoaxes.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:21 AM   #75
Matt deMille
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In regards to the common use of the "Occum Razor" principle throughout this site, I'd like to point out that the most important discoveries in history have proven to be anything but "the simplest answer". After all, the Earth was the center of the universe. Simple. Except it wasn't. We had to discard that simplistic, egocentric perception and begin to study all the cosmos around us. If the "assumptions" of that time, such as there being other worlds were, as the razor principle suggests, simply shaved away and not investigated, where would we be in terms of science today?

To me, Occum's Razor seems like very flawed thinking. It seems more like an easy out for those who don't want to address questions. Science should not dismiss anything based on whether it is simpler or harder. If multiple theories have equal evidence, no proverbial razor should be used, but rather, the various possibilities should be left open, with scientists humbly saying "We don't know. It could be this, it could be that. The research is ongoing".

"Simple" is a matter of interpretation and open to preference. After all, supports of fairies, or aliens, or whatever other phenomena could (and do) see the paranormal as the "simplest" explanation. Simple is relative. Thus, I fail to see the popularity of the Occum Razor principle.
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