Did the action scenes disappoint?

The Man · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
I would agree that the 1st/2nd act of KOTCS is better than the 3rd act.

Also (IMHO), I think KOTCS has by far the weakest ending section of all Indy sequels, but the best 1st (and possibly 2nd) act of the sequels? I think TOD is average until the 'Spike Chamber' and then the movie is non stop, I think LC is very average until the Austrian castle segments and then it's great. Does that even it out? Not sure.

The third act of Skull sank it for me. I simply didn't feel engaged at that point. Also, regarding the poll, I actually like the atom blast sequence. It's beyond ridiculous, of course, but it had a panache and a commited Indy that both dissipated during the jungle chase. The mechanics, techniques and bloody Mutt took over.

Darth Vile · Jun 18, 2008

The Man said:
The third act of Skull sank it for me. I simply didn't feel engaged at that point. Also, regarding the poll, I actually like the atom blast sequence. It's beyond ridiculous, of course, but it had a panache and a commited Indy that both dissipated during the jungle chase. The mechanics, techniques and bloody Mutt took over.

How do you define the demarkation point for the 3rd act? For me the 3rd act is everything post waterfalls scene. This is the bit where KOTCS loses it's way a bit and does not regain the direction it had before. So for me,the sum of it's parts are equal... rather than focusing on the last section where it doesn't measure up.

The Man · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
How do you define the demarkation point for the 3rd act? For me the 3rd act is everything post waterfalls scene. This is the bit where KOTCS loses it's way a bit and does not regain the direction it had before. So for me,the sum of it's parts are equal... rather than focusing on the last section where it doesn't measure up.

For me, the third act would probably kick in when Spalko and her men set out in convoy to find the temple, which bring us to the chase. We're probably splitting hairs about the exact structure, but you may be more accurate as to when the second act ends.

Darth Vile · Jun 18, 2008

The Man said:
For me, the third act would probably kick in when Spalko and her men set out in convoy to find the temple, which bring us to the chase. We're probably splitting hairs about the exact structure, but you may be more accurate as to when the second act ends.

It's nice to agree on some things.

So for me the 1st and 2nd act make up for the sub par 3rd. Whereas, with TOD and LC, the last acts are clearly the stronger sections of the movie.

Agent Z · Jun 18, 2008

You know, I would say that Raiders final act is its weakest. It's very good, don't get me wrong, but compared to the earlier set pieces in the film, really, it's Indy standing around and letting Deus ex machina...er...the Ark do its thing.

Spectacular from a technical angle, but rather underwhelming from a narrative standpoint...especially after the desert chase, Peru temple, bar fight, etc etc.

As for Kingdom, it is so uneven in the third act that I can't pin it down. Some parts of the Akator temple are great, some are kinda going through the motions (Mac's departure...i.e. wth?!)...

graz · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
It's nice to agree on some things.

So for me the 1st and 2nd act make up for the sub par 3rd. Whereas, with TOD and LC, the last acts are clearly the stronger sections of the movie.

For me, Crusade is a film of two halves. I think its ok up to the entrance of Connery, but it is after that it becomes my favourite film of the series. To be honest, I don't know the exact timing of the appearance of Jones senior, but it feels about halfway!

I think it is a fair criticism that the final 3rd of KOTCS is weaker than what has come before, though I have to say the entrance and subsequent prescence of Marion helps paper over alot of the cracks for me.

The Man · Jun 18, 2008

The jungle chase is now slumming it at less than 22%.

Darth Vile · Jun 18, 2008

Agent Z said:
You know, I would say that Raiders final act is its weakest. It's very good, don't get me wrong, but compared to the earlier set pieces in the film, really, it's Indy standing around and letting Deus ex machina...er...the Ark do its thing.

Spectacular from a technical angle, but rather underwhelming from a narrative standpoint...especially after the desert chase, Peru temple, bar fight, etc etc.

As for Kingdom, it is so uneven in the third act that I can't pin it down. Some parts of the Akator temple are great, some are kinda going through the motions (Mac's departure...i.e. wth?!)...

Raiders still has (IMHO) one of the best denumounts in cinema history i.e. the opening of the Ark. That's why my rose tinted specs always views Raiders with such fondness. Watching Raiders as a little kid, I knew that I'd not seen anything like it before (apart from Star Wars). It was trully an "event" movie for me (similar to Aliens and Terminator II).

Darth Vile · Jun 18, 2008

graz said:
For me, Crusade is a film of two halves. I think its ok up to the entrance of Connery, but it is after that it becomes my favourite film of the series. To be honest, I don't know the exact timing of the appearance of Jones senior, but it feels about halfway!

I think it is a fair criticism that the final 3rd of KOTCS is weaker than what has come before, though I have to say the entrance and subsequent prescence of Marion helps paper over alot of the cracks for me.

I agree - When Connery turns up, the movie seems to try a lot harder (if that makes sense), and the second half is the most enjoyable of any Indy movie I think. Again, in relation to KOTCS and TOD, I think it's a case of the sum of the parts adding up. For me, on the whole, they do...

replican't · Jun 18, 2008

why not just mix up acts from the different films and make a new one? That would rock.

Dr.Sartorius · Jun 18, 2008

I thought the first half of Indy 4 was actually on par with Raiders in terms of action, character, and story.

If the movie continued this consistency from the time they arrive in the Amazon onwards, I think the movie would almost stand alongside Raiders as the most well made and exciting Indy movie.

MolaRam2 · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
I would agree that the 1st/2nd act of KOTCS is better than the 3rd act.

Also (IMHO), I think KOTCS has by far the weakest ending section of all Indy sequels, but the best 1st (and possibly 2nd) act of the sequels? I think TOD is average until the 'Spike Chamber' and then the movie is non stop, I think LC is very average until the Austrian castle segments and then it's great. Does that even it out? Not sure.

Raiders has by far the best first act. Temple has by far the best last hour of any Indy movie.

MolaRam2 · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
How do you define the demarkation point for the 3rd act? For me the 3rd act is everything post waterfalls scene. This is the bit where KOTCS loses it's way a bit and does not regain the direction it had before. So for me,the sum of it's parts are equal... rather than focusing on the last section where it doesn't measure up.

The moment that KOTCS fell apart before my very eyes, was when the CGI monkeys showed up. The film just got beyond ridiculous and beyond stupid once the CGI monkeys show up, and it never grounds itself in anyway after their apperance.

Indyswede · Jun 18, 2008

MolaRam2 said:
The moment that KOTCS fell apart before my very eyes, was when the CGI monkeys showed up. The film just got beyond ridiculous and beyond stupid once the CGI monkeys show up, and it never grounds itself in anyway after their apperance.

That was the icing on the cake for me as well. After that KO I felt that It could never regain my respect and voila, 4 waterfalls, lots of aliens and a spaceship later.

Darth Vile · Jun 18, 2008

Indyswede said:
That was the icing on the cake for me as well. After that KO I felt that It could never regain my respect and voila, 4 waterfalls, lots of aliens and a spaceship later.

Well you know TOD and LC had a lot of moments like that. I remember thinking at the time when watching LC, "Am I really watching Indiana Jones pretending to be Scottish?", "Did Henry Jones Snr. really bring down a fighter with seagulls?", "Was Marcus this stupid in Raiders?" etc. etc. But after 19 years I very much enjoy LC.

Indyswede · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
Well you know TOD and LC had a lot of moments like that. I remember thinking at the time when watching LC, "Am I really watching Indiana Jones pretending to be Scottish?", "Did Henry Jones Snr. really bring down a fighter with seagulls?", "Was Marcus this stupid in Raiders?" etc. etc. But after 19 years I very much enjoy LC.

But those scenes were done with fire in the eyes. There's no spark in the perfomance from the actors in KOTCS. I anticipated that the people loved the franchise they filmed so much that when they did a scene they did it with power. Karen Allen should have watched Raiders before filming this. Shia seems happy to be in there and delivers. Harrison delivers for about 40% of the film. You can actually see in his eyes which scenes he likes and not. He has the look when getting out of the trunk, he's got the look when he's looking at the picture of his father and he's got the look when he's says, don't touch a thing & incredible. The action scenes in the warehouse are also very good, and the jump he makes over to the other car in the jungle scene.

Spalko gets fire in her eyes in the end

Kate Blanchett does a good job. The others (Ox, Marion (she could have had an even smaller part) and that other guy who I have already forgotten the name of does not have to be there and only takes up Indianas space.

MolaRam2 · Jun 18, 2008

Darth Vile said:
Well you know TOD and LC had a lot of moments like that. I remember thinking at the time when watching LC, "Am I really watching Indiana Jones pretending to be Scottish?", "Did Henry Jones Snr. really bring down a fighter with seagulls?", "Was Marcus this stupid in Raiders?" etc. etc. But after 19 years I very much enjoy LC.

None of those moments compare to the CGI monkeys. Thise moments you listed fit well in the plot (except Marcus being dumb, but that was his character for LC), but the CGI monkeys were just randomly inserted to be cutesy and for absoluely no other reason. Plus the CGI monkeys look as out of place as an alien would in LC's Tank Chase.

Mothy · Jun 18, 2008

MolaRam2 said:
None of those moments compare to the CGI monkeys. Thise moments you listed fit well in the plot (except Marcus being dumb, but that was his character for LC), but the CGI monkeys were just randomly inserted to be cutesy and for absoluely no other reason. Plus the CGI monkeys look as out of place as an alien would in LC's Tank Chase.

The monkeys were atrocious. The pride of the series was well and truly ripped out, stomped on and thrown to the dogs with KOTCS.

MolaRam2 · Jun 19, 2008

Mothy said:
The monkeys were atrocious. The pride of the series was well and truly ripped out, stomped on and thrown to the dogs with KOTCS.

KOTCS felt like Spielberg ripped my heart out and then lowered me into a pit of fire while I was still alive. Yes I know Lucas was responsible too, but I heard the CGI monkeys scene was Spielberg's idea.

Mothy · Jun 19, 2008

MolaRam2 said:
KOTCS felt like Spielberg ripped my heart out and then lowered me into a pit of fire while I was still alive. Yes I know Lucas was responsible too, but I heard the CGI monkeys scene was Spielberg's idea.

They both have lost perspective if that if the case. Give me the originals and I'm content.

Did the action scenes disappoint?

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