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Old 05-26-2015, 06:38 AM   #1
indytim
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What about the recasting of the other Indy franchise characters?

If Disney do relaunch the Indy franchise with a younger cast there's obviously a lot of discussion on this forum about who should play the title role. But what about the other notable franchise characters such as Marion, Marcus and Sallah? Should these characters be left alone? But then how would their absence be explained without rewriting the canon?

I'll start by saying Martin Freeman gets the 'thumbs up' from me to play a younger version of Marcus Brody

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Old 06-06-2015, 05:26 AM   #2
Túrin Turambar
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Yeah before he got dementia in last crusade, I always thought in raiders Brody in his prime was probably a very determined badass....Go Getter.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:36 AM   #3
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Good casting, and I also agree about the young Marcus. If in a new film we are going back in time, it might be fun having Marcus - perhaps just off of his prime - more along for the ride (or part of it).
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indytim
But then how would their absence be explained without rewriting the canon?

Set it in India.
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:19 AM   #5
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He would be a excellent choice.
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:42 PM   #6
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I went through a fairly extensive casting list on my website which you can check out in the link below. I had Colin Firth playing Brody, but Martin Freeman would be an excellent choice as well. I would like to see Indiana Jones take Brody on an adventure as his sidekick, the screen time could really shed some light on an otherwise mysterious character, maybe we could get a little back story to his times in school with Indy's father. The character should be more than just a bumbling idiot. I think he could play a very important role in the new films.

http://www.abnersjournal.com/#!episo...-the-same/ca21
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:15 AM   #7
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My only objection to casting Martin Freeman as Marcus Brody is, like Pratt, he's in everything. Sherlock, The Hobbit, Fargo, and the soon-to-be-released Captain America: Civil War. His agent is good.
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:36 AM   #8
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The Brody Awakens
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Old 06-29-2015, 01:24 AM   #9
Attila the Professor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFan
My only objection to casting Martin Freeman as Marcus Brody is, like Pratt, he's in everything. Sherlock, The Hobbit, Fargo, and the soon-to-be-released Captain America: Civil War. His agent is good.

He's also a touch young, considering Marcus presented in Last Crusade as a near contemporary of Henry, Sr., but I do think Freeman's a good fit for the character regardless. For the sake of discussion, Chris Pratt's currently 36, but Freeman is only 43; Denholm Elliott was a full 20 years older than Harrison Ford (and 7 older than Connery, though I do think that Marcus's apparent age in Raiders is a more accurate one than that in Crusade).

Anyone know much about contemporary Egyptian actors? Be a damned shame to find a new Sallah in Wales again.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:23 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Anyone know much about contemporary Egyptian actors? Be a damned shame to find a new Sallah in Wales again.
On the other hand, the practice could be seen as another nod to the film series' origins in the serials of old. Back in the day, it was more of a rule than an exception that any Middle Eastern character appearing on screen was nothing but a Westerner with dark enough features.

Indy's not even the only one paying its respects to this habit. The Mummy series is also teeming with these fake Arabs.

While it's admittedly a different thing to just put on an accent and fake your nationality rather than your entire ethnicity, let's keep in mind that our beloved series also has American and British actors playing Germans, Russians and Frenchmen.

Of course, for all the examples we have of playing the trope straight, we then have ToD that goes to pretty great lengths to avert it. Most of the Indian characters are not only ethnic Indians, but prominent Bollywood actors to boot. Though I suppose it's one demographic where it's simply easier to go to the source instead of looking for convincing Western (or even westernized) replacements. Curiously, the Chinese gangsters in the opening are also all familiar faces from the Eastern cinema, even if people with Asian features are somewhat more easily found in the Western hemisphere as well.

Last edited by Finn : 06-30-2015 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:38 AM   #11
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Well, I typed all this...may as well post it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
On the other hand, the practice could be seen as another nod to the film series' origins in the serials of old. Back in the day, it was more of a rule than an exception that any Middle Eastern character appearing on screen was nothing but a Westerner with dark enough features.

Indeed, Finn. I imagine Anthony Quinn would have been at the top of the list for casting options if Raiders had been made in the '50s or '60s. Maybe Topol, though not after the Six-Day War. Heck, he even played a Sallah once - though apparently double Ls is the Israeli spelling!

Rhys-Davies was a fortuitous choice, too, at least when compared to their first choice of Danny DeVito, who's a fine actor but one who seems pretty far from the Egyptian type. Or rather - and this is what matters most in Hollywood - he'd play too much as American to be able to play as anything else. Brits often get more leeway. See Alec Guinness, for example, or Olivier.

A more contemporary model - or analog - for their casting practices is possibly the Bond films, which sometimes was dedicated enough to casting for ethnicity that the actors had to be overdubbed, sometimes went fully Japanese when casting Japanese principals, sometimes cast a Mexican as a Turk, and, just a year before Temple of Doom, cast a Frenchman as an Afghani. Of course, the next time they needed an Afghan character, 3 years after Temple, and 2 years before Crusade, they went with a Pakistani, considerably closer. And then in '89, when they needed someone from that part of the world somewhere east of the Adriatic (do we have any real idea where Kazim is from?), they went with an Armenian - who maybe could have played the Egyptian digger in the first place, had he made it to his audition. Which is to say, it's not necessarily a narrative of change in casting practices but of happenstance and multiple factors weighing on decisions.

Maybe the most instructive thing about the Bond example? Playing to the international market was frequently a factor when they *did* cast to ethnicity.

So the casting could be wide open. Still, I don't see any reason for ethnicity or nationality to not receive a fair amount of weight; after all, no one other than Americans gets much play in fan-casting the lead.

Anyway, if they were ever to get around to casting Henry, Sr., and wanted to continue the little joke, and keep him as a British national, well, Timothy Dalton could be an interesting choice.



And Jared Harris would be a solid choice for either Brody or Henry, Sr., for that matter, maintaining the usual Indy-Brody age gap and being young enough to do some action as Henry. (Connery is just 12 years older than Ford, after all.)


He can even fight!

And finally, apparently Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt are making a film together. Might be chemistry to watch for.

Last edited by Attila the Professor : 06-30-2015 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 06-30-2015, 05:50 AM   #12
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I was just reminded of this little item recently, but what about Tania Raymonde as a young Marion? She's on The Last Ship now, but I admit I'm more acquainted with her work on LOST.

She's got just the right amount of spunk mixed with vulnerability that really made Karen Allen's portrayal work. Of course the biggest issue is that she's 27, when Marion was 17 (or is it 15?) At the time of her first love affair with Indy.

Still, might be worth considering.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:04 AM   #13
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I've always wanted to see the adventures of Shortround.

But the best choice would be a film about Indys dad your correct. But did seem pretty mellow in crusade, but it could follow his absolute obsession with the holy grail...no?
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Túrin Turambar
I've always wanted to see the adventures of Shortround.

But the best choice would be a film about Indys dad your correct. But did seem pretty mellow in crusade, but it could follow his absolute obsession with the holy grail...no?

I always had the impression that Henry Sr. was more of this bookish, researcher classic sort of character. So while he would get "giddy as a schoolboy" when coming across Grail clues, he wasn't the sort to dive into adventure and danger unless he absolutely had to.

Still it would be intriguing to have a recast Henry, depending on when the movie features in Indy's life. Since father and son were estranged for so long, it might be more Canon compliant to have Indy going globetrotting with Abner Ravenwood, as a few other fan circles have suggested.
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:57 AM   #15
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The Young adventures of Abner Ravenwood, would be box office gold.
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Túrin Turambar
The Young adventures of Abner Ravenwood, would be box office gold.

An interesting thing to consider might be portraying Abner as the rough and tumble, Bogart-inspired character they originally intended "Indiana Smith" to be, the one we could affectionately call "Selleck Indy".

Putting him in an adventure alongside his impulsive, cocky young protege would be pretty nifty, from a meta level if nothing else.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnythingGoes
An interesting thing to consider might be portraying Abner as the rough and tumble, Bogart-inspired character they originally intended "Indiana Smith" to be, the one we could affectionately call "Selleck Indy".

Putting him in an adventure alongside his impulsive, cocky young protege would be pretty nifty, from a meta level if nothing else.

I guess Emperor's Tomb did float the Selleck concept at some point, didn't it?



I prefer the aborted Wilford Brimley concept, which showed up in the art for the not-written Indiana Jones and the Lost Horizon series. Diversifies the approach a bit. I've never personally pictured Abner as particularly rugged, myself, just determined and unconcerned with the elements, and thus liable to get himself caught in an avalanche. Especially with Last Crusade's prologue existing, and introducing the Fedora character, I think it's incumbent on Abner to be a lot more bookish than Selleck would seem, despite also having none of Henry, Sr.'s fussiness.



Naturally, if Pratt ends up getting the part, and they wanted to cast that role with someone he was already comfortable with, Nick Offerman's right there for the taking.



(Still, a Selleck-type figure has potential. Might be a very nice approach for an old friend and professional rival who goes all Mr. Kurtz off in the jungle or desert somewhere.)
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Old 07-03-2015, 06:08 PM   #18
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I am very much loving the young Marcus.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:13 AM   #19
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Sallah and Marion should be studiously avoided.

Indy's universe needs to feel bigger, not smaller. He's a globe-trotter and a man of the world, he should hang out with more than the same 3 people over and over again.

Ditto Henry Sr, who was supposed to be estranged from Junior for decades. His adventure in "Last Crusade" alongside his son was supposed to be a special and unique undertaking, let's not ruin that.

Marcus would be okay, as they seem to have a long history together and a whiff of continuity would be nice.

But, really, I'd rather see a whole new gang, as fun and fan-servicey as it might be to revisit a classic character at a younger age.
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Sallah and Marion should be studiously avoided.

Indy's universe needs to feel bigger, not smaller. He's a globe-trotter and a man of the world, he should hang out with more than the same 3 people over and over again.

Ditto Henry Sr, who was supposed to be estranged from Junior for decades. His adventure in "Last Crusade" alongside his son was supposed to be a special and unique undertaking, let's not ruin that.

Marcus would be okay, as they seem to have a long history together and a whiff of continuity would be nice.

But, really, I'd rather see a whole new gang, as fun and fan-servicey as it might be to revisit a classic character at a younger age.

Parlor games aside, I agree wholeheartedly.

Though I also like parlor games. If there's anyone I'd be interested in an appearance from, other than Marcus, it's Belloq.
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:28 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
Sallah and Marion should be studiously avoided.

Indy's universe needs to feel bigger, not smaller. He's a globe-trotter and a man of the world, he should hang out with more than the same 3 people over and over again.

Ditto Henry Sr, who was supposed to be estranged from Junior for decades. His adventure in "Last Crusade" alongside his son was supposed to be a special and unique undertaking, let's not ruin that.

Marcus would be okay, as they seem to have a long history together and a whiff of continuity would be nice.

But, really, I'd rather see a whole new gang, as fun and fan-servicey as it might be to revisit a classic character at a younger age.

I agree completely. Marcus could make sense, but I think they ought to have a new love interest and a new sidekick to join Indy on his adventures. I hate when prequels feel the need to have a young version of every single character from the originals. If Indy visits Egypt for any reason in the new film, Sallah would make sense, but otherwise his presence would feel forced. And I for one don't want to see the story of the early Indy/Marion relationship on film. That is best left for conjecture. There are plenty of attractive young female actresses you could cast rather than worrying about who looks like Marion or has the same qualities as her.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:17 PM   #22
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I think the Indy/Marion/Abner storyline would be a dramatic series of films, and a great way to kick off the new Disney Indiana Jones era. There is a ten year gap between Indy and Marion's first relationship and the events of Raiders, plenty of time to include new romances and new adventures, but seeing these events unfold onscreen would add a certain familiarity that the audience could embrace, even though new actors are portraying iconic characters. Prequels get a bad wrap mainly because of Star Wars, but the problem with those films was the delivery not the concept. Those three films should have been a powerful epic adventure/tragedy, but to most they were a disappointment. If handled correctly an Indiana Jones prequel would only add a personal touch to the character's overall timeline. Anyways, having every Indiana Jones film offer up a new female lead and a new McGuffin, the franchise will eventually become tired and predictable. How many fantastic things can one man find before his discoveries start to feel far fetched and ridiculous.
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Old 07-05-2015, 05:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW1
I think the Indy/Marion/Abner storyline would be a dramatic series of films, and a great way to kick off the new Disney Indiana Jones era. There is a ten year gap between Indy and Marion's first relationship and the events of Raiders, plenty of time to include new romances and new adventures, but seeing these events unfold onscreen would add a certain familiarity that the audience could embrace, even though new actors are portraying iconic characters. Prequels get a bad wrap mainly because of Star Wars, but the problem with those films was the delivery not the concept. Those three films should have been a powerful epic adventure/tragedy, but to most they were a disappointment. If handled correctly an Indiana Jones prequel would only add a personal touch to the character's overall timeline. Anyways, having every Indiana Jones film offer up a new female lead and a new McGuffin, the franchise will eventually become tired and predictable. How many fantastic things can one man find before his discoveries start to feel far fetched and ridiculous.

This isn't quite the point of this thread, so I hesitate to lead us too far down this path, but there's no way Disney is going to reintroduce the character with a multi-film saga of statutory rape. This is one of those things that can be gotten away with when it's spoken-of backstory but not when it's actually portrayed on screen.
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Old 07-05-2015, 07:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
This isn't quite the point of this thread, so I hesitate to lead us too far down this path, but there's no way Disney is going to reintroduce the character with a multi-film saga of statutory rape. This is one of those things that can be gotten away with when it's spoken-of backstory but not when it's actually portrayed on screen.

That was sort of my thinking. Best to start the movie around about 1927 or 1928 when Marion is a thing of the past for Indy and he can move on with a new girl (one close to his age).
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:00 PM   #25
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Marion's age was never discussed in the films, only in the story conferences. She does say that she was a child, but that could be a naive eighteen year old girl. Karen Allen was twenty-nine when she made Raiders.
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