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Old 05-15-2013, 06:56 AM   #26
Finn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
My pal & I both have the stones to tolerate humility but this is not one of those times. Even though this Cpt. America connection has been mentioned before, no thread has been dedicated to it so if you ever decide to close this one then you might as well close/combine all of the other "reboot" () threads.
You know, I agree. This is a thread deserving self-existence. It may not have been as such at the time of its inception - so kong's criticisms were not completely baseless - but it has since developed into one. Thanks in large part to Monty's contributions.

This, of course, does leave the stones question hanging in the air - but eh, I don't think anyone in The Raven really cares. As long as Mrs. Stoo stays happy.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:44 PM   #27
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hey hey everyone! man its been FOREVER since i last posted!!

read this thread and had to post since its about my 2 favorite historical heroes.

i think, first of all, that there shouldnt be another Indy film (sorry to say it). its just that you cant replace Harrison as Indy. EVER. PERIOD. and if he would return, what could they do? i wouldnt want another Kingdom-like approach to the franchise. KotCS was alright, but i think that it lead the franchise downhill, even though it brought it back to life, so to speak. however, if they were to have Harrison Ford return as Indy, i dont think that he should be fighting Nazis. Soviets would be cool. but the problem with a Cap reference would be that he would be frozen in ice during the Cold War. It would be a cool Easter Egg to have a Cap reference in an Indy film, but it wouldnt work out, in my opinion.

and since i am a HUGE superhero fan, i have to correct Goodeknight. youre thinking of the third X-Men movie, The Last Stand. the second one was X2 X-Men United. sorry, i HAD to correct you lol
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Scout 117
hey hey everyone! man its been FOREVER since i last posted!!

read this thread and had to post since its about my 2 favorite historical heroes.

i think, first of all, that there shouldnt be another Indy film (sorry to say it). its just that you cant replace Harrison as Indy. EVER. PERIOD. and if he would return, what could they do? i wouldnt want another Kingdom-like approach to the franchise. KotCS was alright, but i think that it lead the franchise downhill, even though it brought it back to life, so to speak. however, if they were to have Harrison Ford return as Indy, i dont think that he should be fighting Nazis. Soviets would be cool. but the problem with a Cap reference would be that he would be frozen in ice during the Cold War. It would be a cool Easter Egg to have a Cap reference in an Indy film, but it wouldnt work out, in my opinion.

and since i am a HUGE superhero fan, i have to correct Goodeknight. youre thinking of the third X-Men movie, The Last Stand. the second one was X2 X-Men United. sorry, i HAD to correct you lol

I understand that it's very difficult to imagine someone replacing our man Harrison, but the continued insistence that the character is completely impossible to recast continues to irk me. Folks who use this argument would have likely had the James Bond series end with Connery's retirement from the role, because, y'know, he perfectly explored every nook and cranny of such a fascinating, multi-layered character...

But rude sarcasm aside, I'd be all for having Indiana Jones somehow retconned into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Then maybe the inter-dimensional beings from KOTCS wouldn't seem so bizarrely out-of-place to the more disgruntled fans, because, well, then it would be a universe that also has radioactive hulk monsters, powered armor suits, Norse gods, and giant alien serpent-ships...
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:13 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
...but the continued insistence that the character is completely impossible to recast continues to irk me. Folks who use this argument would have likely had the James Bond series end with Connery's retirement from the role, because, y'know, he perfectly explored every nook and cranny of such a fascinating, multi-layered character...
...

...FYI, these are the same folk that cheer the addition of Ford to The Expendables, to replace Church, oh the ironic hypocrisy...

But carry on, your point is well received.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:45 PM   #30
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Having Capt. America in an Indiana Jones crossover would be like having Metallica perform in the middle of André Rieu's concert. I prefer a different crossover.
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:54 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
I understand that it's very difficult to imagine someone replacing our man Harrison, but the continued insistence that the character is completely impossible to recast continues to irk me. Folks who use this argument would have likely had the James Bond series end with Connery's retirement from the role, because, y'know, he perfectly explored every nook and cranny of such a fascinating, multi-layered character...

Except:

1. Connery played Bond in movie adaptations of Ian Fleming's books, meaning people had known Bond for years before they started associating him with Connery, whereas Harrison Ford has been Indiana Jones since the character's very first appearance.
2. Connery was not the first actor who portrayed Bond anyway.
3. George Lazenby stepped in the role 7 years after Connery's first Bond film, whereas by 2019 Ford will have been Indiana Jones for 38 years.
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walecs
Except:

1. Connery played Bond in movie adaptations of Ian Fleming's books, meaning people had known Bond for years before they started associating him with Connery, whereas Harrison Ford has been Indiana Jones since the character's very first appearance.
2. Connery was not the first actor who portrayed Bond anyway.
3. George Lazenby stepped in the role 7 years after Connery's first Bond film, whereas by 2019 Ford will have been Indiana Jones for 38 years.

That's the most concisely I've ever seen this contrast made. Well done.

That isn't to say that they shouldn't recast the character, though, just that the James Bond comparison doesn't work. After all, there's your unmentioned fourth point:

Quote:
4. James Bond exists in a floating timeline, based on the age of whoever is portraying him, whereas Indy is tied, by both his canon and his conception, to a narrower time frame and years of greatest activity.

It also isn't to say that I'd like to see a crossover. Marvel can refer to Indy, if they want, but I don't care to see that be a two-way street.
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walecs
Except:
whereas Harrison Ford has been Indiana Jones since the character's very first appearance.
Except for the 4 other actors who have played Indiana Jones on screen...
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JasonMa
Except for the 4 other actors who have played Indiana Jones on screen...

While I love the YIJC and River in LC, none of them exactly made a mark. To the general public, Ford is Indy and Indy is Ford. I don't think the general public would be into Indy sans Ford.

A better comparison to Indy would be Star Trek and Captain Kirk. Shatner portrayed Kirk for 28 years. It would not be for another 15 years after he departed the role that replacing him would be truly tried. I can't think that say if Star Trek: Academy, a prequel, had come out in 1996 it would have generated much buzz or box office. It would've been too soon.

Indy is tied to Ford and I do not believe a non-Ford Indy in 2021 or so will do what Disney wants. There is only so much you can do with this particular character to begin with.
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Old 02-18-2017, 04:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
I don't think the general public would be into Indy sans Ford.
...
Indy is tied to Ford
...
There is only so much you can do with this particular character to begin with.
Statements like those clearly show that you care about the actor more than about the character, and project the same attitude onto others.

Disney will prove your prophecy spectacularly wrong.
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Statements like those clearly show that you care about the actor more than about the character, and project the same attitude onto others.

Disney will prove your prophecy spectacularly wrong.

Unless you happen to be a bigger fan of the video games or the TV series than the movies, Ford and the character are intimately linked. I feel the series should have ended at LC anyway.

I think you're overestimating the market for an Indiana Jones film to begin with, Ford or no Ford. KOTCS only did as well as it did because of nostalgia and because people had waited so long for another film; because there was hype and demand for a new one.

There is no real mainstream demand now for a fifth Indy film due to KOTCS, much less one without Ford.

I believe that my prophecy will be proven right. Not many outside of these forums particularly want to see another Indy film to begin with. And without Ford, who, like it or not, defined the character, that box office will only go down further.

Indy is not like Star Wars. It is not universal. It's a series set in a very narrow window of time with very restrictive rules placed upon it. It has no existing fanbase to support it in the way Marvel does. It has no massive expanded universe or toy line to keep interest in it going during dormant periods the way Star Wars did. People aren't going to see a fifth film, much less a sixth sans Ford, simply because of the name brand. I think you are purposefully neglecting the damage done to the brand by KOTCS, and the fact that for all intents and purposes, the franchise has been dead since 2008. Between 1989 and 2008 you had video games, books, comics and what have you to fill the void and keep interest going. That's not happening now.

A final Ford film will only damage the brand further, and will in turn hurt box office returns for a sixth film. I predict that the fifth film will end up being subpar. Perhaps not as poor as KOTCS was, but it will not be pleasing. There is no appeal in it at this point. No one wants to see 77 year old Ford playing Indy. The hardcores who do want that don't want to see some kid hogging up half the film. It won't do as well as Disney hopes. This isn't The Force Awakens wherein people desperately wanted to see these characters again after 30 years.

Indy was a series which really should have ended on the big screen in 1989. These attempts since then to perform necromancy haven't gone well.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:01 AM   #37
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Quote:
Katy Perry
You change your mind
Like a girl changes clothes
You poured rivers of (virtual) ink defending KOTCS, and now you are saying that it permanently damaged the Indiana Jones brand.

You also told everyone who cared to listen that older Indy was just as interesting as Indy in his prime, and now you are saying that no one wants to see 77 year old Ford playing the character.

What next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
There is no real mainstream demand now for a fifth Indy film
Good films/TV series create their own demand. Twas ever thus.

Where was the mainstream demand for an 80s throwback sci-fi/horror story before Stranger Things?
Didn't stop it from becoming a huge commercial and critical success.

Unless Disney majorly screw it up with Indy 5, which I doubt -despite the constraints imposed by Ford's presence- I don't see why future prequels with a younger actor couldn't be successful and enjoyable by old and new fans of the series alike.

Last edited by Z dweller : 02-19-2017 at 09:07 AM.
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