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Old 02-08-2018, 08:33 PM   #151
Dr.Jonesy
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The Last Crusade could be accused of feeling the most dull of the four.

Very same-y, bland color palette, a bit droll.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:23 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakis
Truth is pure adventure films is a lost form. Now they are trying to fit everything in a film and the outcome is never pleasant.


That is sadly true. You don't see much in terms of them these days and what you do see ironically comes off as an Indy knock-off more than anything.

One thing about TLC that I find a bit disappointing is it lacks the pulpy style the first two both had in spades, especially TOD. ROTLA and TOD both feel very pulpy and much like the adventure serials that inspired them, just bigger-budgeted and better-made. TOD also has a wonderful EC Comics-style with it visuals, colors and darker style. TLC for some reason doesn't have that same pulpy style and KOTCS didn't really either, although it evoked it moreso than TLC.
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:19 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jonesy
The Last Crusade could be accused of feeling the most dull of the four.

Very same-y, bland color palette, a bit droll.

The colours in Crusade are far better. 8 years in cinema evolution made it so. Raiders is the one that had to be changed in the blu-ray edition for visual consistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple Raider
One thing about TLC that I find a bit disappointing is it lacks the pulpy style the first two both had in spades, especially TOD.

This is true also. I hoped that Kingdom would be a return to the roots but it was a modernday hollywood tent pole. Maybe the next one should be filmed by Tarantino, he captured the old 70s feel in Death Proof greatly. Ok, I'm just kidding on this. But on second thought, I'm thinking of Indy in a car chase with a dusted 1968 Dodge Charger.... hmmmmm. Alright, snap out of this!
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:12 AM   #154
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I'd love for Indy 5 to really re-capture that vintage pulp feeling both ROTLA and TOD had. TOD in particular also has a distinct EC Comics style with it's style and colors, very evocative of something like a 1950s-era Tales From The Crypt comic book, which was appropriate given the story and setting. It'd be great for Indy 5 to do something akin to that.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:07 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Sakis
But on second thought, I'm thinking of Indy in a car chase with a dusted 1968 Dodge Charger.... hmmmmm. Alright, snap out of this!
"Indiana Jones and the Dukes of Hazzard"?

Until 2008, "Crusade" had always been my least favourite because it was a retread of "Raiders". I saw it the least in the theatres (only 3 times) and watched it the least on VHS. It wasn't until joining The Raven in 2005 that I discovered how highly it ranked amongst younger fans so I dove into it more with the DVD. The ranking still remained the same.

It's just too goofy. (Ex. the Jones' exchanging glances with the German pilot as his plane passes their car in the tunnel. Awful scene and just as bad as stuff in "Skull". Made me groan in the theatre and still hate it to this day.)

Now, I've watched an insane amount of old adventure movies & serials and can say with certainty that, of the first 3 films, "Crusade" borrows the least from the oldies. Much of it is more of an homage to "Raiders" than anything else. It's a slapstick version of the original with the booby traps at the end instead of the beginning.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:41 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Stoo
"Indiana Jones and the Dukes of Hazzard"?

Made me groan in the theatre and still hate it to this day.)

More likely Indiana Jones and the Tough Bullitt Chase kind of thing.

How old were you when Crusade was released?
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:47 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakis
More likely Indiana Jones and the Tough Bullitt Chase kind of thing.
"Bullitt" was a '68 Ford Mustang, though. AWESOME car chase. (I did a Segway tour in San Fran a couple of years ago and recognized some of the streets, especially the corner that McQueen slams into and loses a hubcap!)

"Crusade" hit the silver screen when I was a fresh 22-year-old. Maybe I wasn't too pie-eyed & impressionable then as I was when seeing "Raiders" at 14. Indy 3 was an unexpected disappointment and it taught me a lesson (just like "Return of the Jedi" did): Don't get high hopes when it comes to movie sequels.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:03 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
"Bullitt" was a '68 Ford Mustang, though. AWESOME car chase. (I did a Segway tour in San Fran a couple of years ago and recognized some of the streets, especially the corner that McQueen slams into and loses a hubcap!)

"Crusade" hit the silver screen when I was a fresh 22-year-old. Maybe I wasn't too pie-eyed & impressionable then as I was when seeing "Raiders" at 14. Indy 3 was an unexpected disappointment and it taught me a lesson (just like "Return of the Jedi" did): Don't get high hopes when it comes to movie sequels.

Bullitt had a 1968 Ford Mustang vs a 1968 Dodge Charger but to be honest I prefer the 1969 model most, in black matte.

I was 14 when I saw Crusade and was my first Indy film in theater. The very first I saw was Temple in tv a year before. Raiders second, during a summer night in an old, small, black&white tv screen that blacked out right before the opening of the Ark. I saw that scene years later. Truth is I never appreciated Raiders because it took me a while to watch it properly. Still, for me the one is the original, the other is the best.
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:20 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
It's just too goofy. (Ex. the Jones' exchanging glances with the German pilot as his plane passes their car in the tunnel. Awful scene and just as bad as stuff in "Skull". Made me groan in the theatre and still hate it to this day.)

Now, I've watched an insane amount of old adventure movies & serials and can say with certainty that, of the first 3 films, "Crusade" borrows the least from the oldies. Much of it is more of an homage to "Raiders" than anything else. It's a slapstick version of the original with the booby traps at the end instead of the beginning.


Very much agreed. TLC is still enjoyable but you highlighted so many of my own issues with it. Way too goofy and slapsticky, and very much feeling like a cartoon version of the first film. At times it almost feels like a Three Stooges version of Indy. Audiences may have enjoyed the Nazis as the villains again but for me it felt tired to use them again so soon after TOD showed Indy doesn't always need them. I mentioned before how of all the films it feels the least pulpy and doesn't have the same adventure serial feel the others do. You're so right about the plane in the tunnel scene, when you look at TLC you see that it has just as much silly and over the top stuff in it as Crystal Skull.

People always lag to rag on how OTT the raft stunt in TOD is and of course the fridge in KOTCS and I'm not arguing both are extremely outlandish. But people give a pass to TLC's equally OTT, silly and/or implausible things, such as:


- Young Indy getting his fedora, chin scar, whip, fear of snakes and love of adventure all in the same afternoon.

- Young Indy escaping off of a moving train using a magic box he had no knowledge at all of how to use.

- The "Scottish Lord" disguise. Sorry but Indy isn't a character I like to see played for laughs.

- The revolving fireplace.

- Indy tumbling down the steps.

- The plane in the tunnel.

- The pen ink squirting in the eye.

- The Centuries-old Grail Knight (he's been alive for hundreds of years guarding the Holy Grail in a secret cavern?!).


And then there's the many cringe-inducing moments TLC's buffoonish versions of Brody and Sallah have. This movie for me was such a character assassination of those two. The way people tend to feel about Willie and Short Round in TOD is precisely how I feel about TLC's versions of Brody and Sallah.

If it seems like I dislike TLC, I don't. Not at all. But of all the Indy films it's the one I take most issue with and the only one I find diminishes the more I watch it. A more slapsticky, cartoony version of Indy just isn't my preference.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:28 PM   #160
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Not to get too off topic, it was the Charger that hit the curb (and the camera filming it) and lost the hub cap. Obviously I'm a huge Indy fan but I'm a HUGE Bullitt and Steve McQueen fan, I could tell you things (especially about the cars) that you've never read about in the magazines or saw on tv shows. Just saying. I do understand everybody's opinions though about LC, I let go of a lot of my misgivings about the movie and decided to just watch the movie and try to enjoy it. The photography is excellent ( it was Slocomb's last movie and then retired), the musical score is excellent and is very rich ( look at the soundtrack and how many individual scores compared to the first 2 movies), I mean there are perks to this movie and let's be honest it's a hell of a lot better than KOTCS. IMHO
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:59 PM   #161
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Something not mentioned yet that's always bothered me is Fedora putting his hat on Young Indy at the end of the prologue. I get that it's a pleasing way to transition into 1938 but what is actually happening?

Is Fedora giving this boy his hat? Why would he do that? (And are we meant to think adult Indy wears that exact same hat in all three movies?)

If Fedora is not giving him the hat, then why put it on his head?

It's a nice scene transition but it raises these distracting questions (for me at least).
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:44 PM   #162
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That actually reminds me how I never liked the revelation Indy stole his signature look from Fedora at the beginning. Something about it just cheapened the character for me, to think his signature look wasn't even originally his own but something he stole from someone else.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:27 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bechet
Something not mentioned yet that's always bothered me is Fedora putting his hat on Young Indy at the end of the prologue. I get that it's a pleasing way to transition into 1938 but what is actually happening?

Is Fedora giving this boy his hat? Why would he do that? (And are we meant to think adult Indy wears that exact same hat in all three movies?)
I thought he was giving Indy the hat. Kind of a sign of respect to Indy as someone who could actually give him a challenge for his age. I don't think we're supposed to take from it that its exactly the same hat throughout Indy's life.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:57 AM   #164
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Pure sign of admiration and respect from both sides. Fedora gave away his hat to Indy for his dedication and tenacity for his cause, Indy adopted, he didn't steal, Fedora's style because Fedora realized his motivations and respected him. He didn't treat him like the kid who stood in the way but as an equal adversary. Besides, everyone is influenced from many things throughout his life let alone when he is a teenager. This scene was so wonderful in conception and offered real character development. I know many people wanted Indy's past to be a mystery because it gave him a different aura but this is what the creators wanted and that's about it.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:09 PM   #165
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I get that giving the hat is an expression of respect. I should clarify that what I mean when I ask why would he do that, is was giving away your hat normal? Especially in a time when people wore hats more than today.

A couple ot stray thoughts relating to this:

Fedora's hat must have been sweaty with associated smells.

I remember an old man telling me, when I was young, that back when people wore hats all the time, being seen outside without your hat was like being without your trousers/pants. While I take this to be a perception not a rule (for I have seen photos taken back then of men outside hatless), I guess giving away your hat on the spot would mean more back then than it would today.

I accept the explanation offered. I just find it a distractingly strange thing to do.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:25 PM   #166
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I still feel that moment cheapened Indy overall, revealing his signature look wasn't even originally his own. Made him seem inauthentic.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:43 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Temple Raider
I still feel that moment cheapened Indy overall, revealing his signature look wasn't even originally his own. Made him seem inauthentic.

I agree...

It's not just that he copied an outfit which is an odd thing to do, anyway.

But I always thought that Indy's outfit was simply the clothes he felt were the most suited for what he did and he threw it together over a few years of him doing what he does and such.

What I loved about Raiders is that the clothes felt organic. It wasn't deliberate - it just was. Whereas in the three sequels, it felt like he was throwing on a purposely thought out costume.

I never wanted Indy's outfit to be a "costume" in his own universe and The Last Crusade revealed that it was a deliberate costume on his part.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:51 PM   #168
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I think in TOD his outfit still had that organic feel you mentioned, like it was what he wore when he was exploring or adventuring. In TLC it became more like a costume when you learn he stole the look.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:17 PM   #169
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The outfit looked lived-in in Raiders and Temple. Less so in Crusade maybe because it looked smarter with the tie. By Crystal Skull it really looked like a costume, to my eye too clearly cared for by the wardrobe dept when not being used on camera. The first two movies leave a strong impression that clothes are being sweated in. I don't have that impression of the second two (but a fresh rewatch might correct me).
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #170
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It's a minor thing but the tie Indy wears in TLC with the outfit is an odd choice, too. It'd be impractical in either scenario of the first two films.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:39 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple Raider
It's a minor thing but the tie Indy wears in TLC with the outfit is an odd choice, too. It'd be impractical in either scenario of the first two films.

The tie irked me. Just looked bad.

And the Last Crusade fedora is really bad, in my opinion. It's just too small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bechet
The outfit looked lived-in in Raiders and Temple. Less so in Crusade maybe because it looked smarter with the tie. By Crystal Skull it really looked like a costume, to my eye too clearly cared for by the wardrobe dept when not being used on camera. The first two movies leave a strong impression that clothes are being sweated in. I don't have that impression of the second two (but a fresh rewatch might correct me).

A re-watch of the later two films won't change your perception much. Definitely feels like a composed costume. I still say all three sequels feel that way, not just the later two.

It feels less like a deliberate, less lived-in costumed during the graveyard and catacomb section in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, though.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:18 AM   #172
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I didn't even notice that but comparing the fedora with the ones in the other films, yeah. Something about it by comparison does seem just a tad bit off.
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Old Yesterday, 12:23 AM   #173
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I think I mentioned before but I also think TLC suffered from having the dullest villains of the series. After awesome adversaries like Belloq, Toht and Mola Ram, the likes of Donovan, Elsa and Vogel were just so lame by comparison. Sometimes I even forget these three are the villains of the film until I see it again, which goes to show how forgettable they were. They just don't resonate with memory at all after I see the film unlike the other villains of the series. For all of KOTCS' faults, it has a much more memorable and enjoyable villain with Spalko.
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