Disney's Frozen

kongisking

Active member
Forbidden Eye said:
Frozen is pretty much considered an A-picture already whether you like it or not. It was huge at the box office(almost 400 million domestic and over a billion worldwide) it had "legs" in a time when no movie has legs anymore, won 2 Oscars, and the film has been embraced by everyone from critics to the general public; you literally can't escape "Let It Go". You have to go back to The Lion King, to find a success from Disney's Animation department(excluding Pixar) that's comparable.

That said, to expand from my mini-review from above, I agree that I didn't find Frozen that great. Compared to Wreck-It-Ralph, an excellent and original family adventure that pushed Disney animation into exciting new directions, I thought Frozen was a pretty basic and by-the-notes tale in comparison outside a few minor "twists". It could be just because Disney has bombarded us with Princess stuff through their marketing over the last decade or so but, as a male, I felt a little bored with the idea of more princesses. But then again, I really enjoyed Tangled and thought it was about as good as the "90s renaissance" films so it could be Frozen's storytelling that's lacking, as well as the characters not being all that engaging.

Of course, the females seem to really love it, so that must mean it was doing a lot of things right(even my Mom really loves "Let It Go"). What I'm really curious about though is Big Hero 6, which follows Wreck-It-Ralph's inventiveness and does something never done with Disney animation before(adapt a Marvel comic). Will it become a big hit and continue the potential "renaissance" we're living in of exciting and successful Disney features or will it disappoint and ultimately make Frozen's success a fluke?

Hold on a sec...

*checks under the desk, if you get my meaning*

Huh. I'm a guy. And I loved this movie. Damn...:eek:
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
Well, obviously you don't HAVE to be a girl to like this movie, all I'm suggesting to roundshort is that maybe the reason he(and I) didn't respond to this movie as much as others from Disney's past is because the story of two emotionally restrained sisters is going to generally be more emotionally involving for girls than it will for boys. Even more so than movies like Beauty and The Beast, Aladdin and Tangled.
 

roundshort

Active member
Forbidden Eye said:
Frozen is pretty much considered an A-picture already whether you like it or not. It was huge at the box office(almost 400 million domestic and over a billion worldwide) it had "legs" in a time when no movie has legs anymore, won 2 Oscars, and the film has been embraced by everyone from critics to the general public;
?

This is the point I was driving at. I am not worried about what I think - think this movie did a good job at trying to keep the age group it was made for happy - kids especially girls. Disney is rock solid with keeping young girls into the whole princess thing.

I think the DVD sales is what impresses me most about this movie. Like FEye said the no movie is selling DVD like they did in the early 2000s. But looking at the next few Disney Studio releases in the pipeline I don't see another massive hit. Of course I do not have a crystal ball - but I am just talking about formula for success movies (Big Hero 6 doesn't have the cute factor and looks a little geeky to hit the mass demographic like Frozen, Lino King etc, Zootopia looks like it is bit more experimental, Giants might be a return to kid movies) - but that puts us at 2016. Who knows ....
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
In pondering this, I'd have to agree with roundshort. The lack of evil in Disney's current agenda is mildly disconcerting. Even if we include Pixar. Mother Gothel was pretty high on the list, but beyond that??????

For true staying power, a bad villian is key to a good hero. Vader, Loki (?), The Witch, Scar, that thingly on the top of the mountain in Fantasia?...Belloq?
 

kongisking

Active member
Pale Horse said:
In pondering this, I'd have to agree with roundshort. The lack of evil in Disney's current agenda is mildly disconcerting. Even if we include Pixar. Mother Gothel was pretty high on the list, but beyond that??????

For true staying power, a bad villian is key to a good hero. Vader, Loki (?), The Witch, Scar, that thingly on the top of the mountain in Fantasia?...Belloq?

After rewatching Frozen a few times, I actually take back my complaint about the lack of a front-and-center villain. It did have one, and it's a compliment to the writers that it seems so nonexistent for the most part. But repeat viewings show that, yes, the movie most definitely had a main villain. But it's genius was in said villain not being in-your-face and epic like past baddies, but instead an insidious and subtle form of evil that, frankly, has never been done in one of these Princess movies. So, in a way, I actually think Frozen's villain is one of the more brilliant and terrifying of the Disney rogues: because you don't see them coming...like many of the evil people in our own world.

It's a different kind of Disney Villain, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Pale Horse said:
O11gubs.gif


How's that for cell work. Oh right, it's not 2D anymore.
While I have zero desire to watch this movie, it's worth pointing out that the painting there is obviously based on Fragonard's, "The Swing":

Fragonard_TheSwing_small_zps30b52b0b.jpg
 

roundshort

Active member
kongisking said:
After rewatching Frozen a few times, I actually take back my complaint about the lack of a front-and-center villain. It did have one, and it's a compliment to the writers that it seems so nonexistent for the most part. But repeat viewings show that, yes, the movie most definitely had a main villain. But it's genius was in said villain not being in-your-face and epic like past baddies, but instead an insidious and subtle form of evil that, frankly, has never been done in one of these Princess movies. So, in a way, I actually think Frozen's villain is one of the more brilliant and terrifying of the Disney rogues: because you don't see them coming...like many of the evil people in our own world.

It's a different kind of Disney Villain, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

While I respectfully acknowledge your point (I am not sure what this brilliant villain is or what the true Evil is) I totally disagree. If anything the main plot hole is trying to figure out what the conflict is. The story has no loops than Chandler's The Big Sleep - and HE could not even figure it out.

So please Explain what is this Brilliant Villain and how is it terrifying? As I will not watch this movie again I will not be able to figure it out for myself. Is it


A) That the girl was born with Ice Powers - and she "let it go" and now is as cold as ice? - that can't be it as she still loves her sister and did not go full Wicked Witch like Snow White or Dragon a'la Sleeping Beauty.

B) Was it the Speed Racer like Old man with the bad hair piece who wanted more trade and was worried about them passing out "trade-able Blankets?" Cause if I liked him Better in Speed Racer

C) Was it Evil Snow Man - well he was killed pretty quick

D) Was it the Prince - who was so Evil that he locked the little sister in her room and told everyone she was dead. I hope not as a true villain would have killed her ass DEAD. I mean he was as lame as they come. Hell his punishment was them telling his older brothers on him. Lame

E) Was it the Rock Troll because I do not think they are cute enough to convert into big sales in the Disney Mega stores or charming enough to spin off into the straight to DvD movies

F) Was it the Summer Sale guy?

G) Was it the Captain who sunk the boat with the Parents on it? Man it must SUCK to be a Disney parent.

Really what was the evil here!
 

kongisking

Active member
roundshort said:
Really what was the evil here!

Was trying to avoid spoilers, as the surprise of it is precisely why it's so effective, IMO, but oh well...

Yes, the Prince. Complaining about him having a case of Bond Villain Overconfidence is silly at this point. Disney movies constantly grapple with the issue of their enemy being formidable but not too formidable. Part and parcel with Disney insisting on 'safe' storytelling. I've simply come to accept this; hence, the contrived situation you mention doesn't bother me at all. You wanted that Prince to slit her throat and rape her corpse, or something? What makes him so diabolical and disturbing as a villain is his effortless ability to disguise that side of himself.

He's Disney's first serial killer villain, for all intents and purposes. Because he's not cackling-mad like Jafar or Ursula doesn't make him less effective an enemy: it actually serves to make him more frightening when you see his reveal, and repeat viewings just add layers to his deception and sadistic mind-games with the characters. And by refusing to re-watch it, you're effectively going to be unable to appreciate my entire point there, so why am I bothering? You've convinced yourself that the film's lack of an obvious enemy somehow hurts the narrative, no matter what logic I bring to the table.

And by the way, his entire plan would have worked...had it not been for Olaf. And you seriously expect him to have taken into his equation the possibility of a cute talking snowman unlocking the door?

Hans was not a lame villain. He was a subtle and Machiavellian one. You'd think a fandom obsessed with a Lucas creation would find his type of villain appealing... *cough*EmperorPalpatine*cough*
 

roundshort

Active member
kongisking said:
Was trying to avoid spoilers, as the surprise of it is precisely why it's so effective, IMO, but oh well...



He's Disney's first serial killer villain, for all intents and purposes. Because he's not cackling-mad like Jafar or Ursula doesn't make him less effective an enemy: it actually serves to make him more frightening when you see his reveal, and repeat viewings just add layers to his deception and sadistic mind-games with the characters.
And by the way, his entire plan would have worked...had it not been for Olaf. And you seriously expect him to have taken into his equation the possibility of a cute talking snowman unlocking the door?

Hans was not a lame villain. He was a subtle and Machiavellian one. You'd think a fandom obsessed with a Lucas creation would find his type of villain appealing... *cough*EmperorPalpatine*cough*

While I appreciate your argument I find it does not hold water. Who des he kill to be a serial killer or a killer at all?

Also it was so obvious that he was after the princess for advancement it was not even funny. My wife and I picked up on it in the first few minutes.

I will argue again if he was truly evil he would have killed the little girl. Not lock her in a room. If you want real evil think Scar - he was bad ass. He would kill anything. Hell he threw his brother to be trampled to death. Again the evil queen from Snow White she sent a hunter to cut out a girls heart and Cruella Devil! She was going to skin puppies. All the prince was doing was marring up. His main flaw was he was lazy.

No sorry while I am glad you enjoy the movie, and I hope many do as I am a huge Disney fan. I expect more. I give Frozen a C at best. When I have more time I will start a Disney Villain thread and we can debate who is crazy evil or just crazy lame!
 

kongisking

Active member
roundshort said:
While I appreciate your argument I find it does not hold water. Who des he kill to be a serial killer or a killer at all?

Also it was so obvious that he was after the princess for advancement it was not even funny. My wife and I picked up on it in the first few minutes.

I will argue again if he was truly evil he would have killed the little girl. Not lock her in a room. If you want real evil think Scar - he was bad ass. He would kill anything. Hell he threw his brother to be trampled to death. Again the evil queen from Snow White she sent a hunter to cut out a girls heart and Cruella Devil! She was going to skin puppies. All the prince was doing was marring up. His main flaw was he was lazy.

No sorry while I am glad you enjoy the movie, and I hope many do as I am a huge Disney fan. I expect more. I give Frozen a C at best. When I have more time I will start a Disney Villain thread and we can debate who is crazy evil or just crazy lame!

Fair enough. If it didn't strike your chord, that's fine. And my argument here wasn't so much that he was a magnificently competent villain. It was that he deserved credit for at least his skill in suckering everyone before his reveal. And in general, I don't think the fact you and your wife anticipating the twist represents everyone. Hell, my girlfriend, who is quite genre-savvy, didn't see it coming (I confess I had been hoping it would turn out like that, since I saw it as a great opportunity for subversion by Disney, but wasn't entirely sure).

So maybe you're just more observant than most. Yes, if he really wanted to make his plan airtight, he'd have murdered Anna right there. But again, this is a Disney movie. Asking for truly dark and murderous competency from their villains is almost foolhardy. Judge Frollo was an anomaly in their canon (and hence, one reason I love him so much...)

And to be fair, Scar himself was a really pathetically competent villain too, if you remember. The second he became King...he proceeded to act like a child and was willing to let his pride completely starve. But we love him because 1) Jeremy Irons' voice is sooooooooo cool, and 2) was blessed with a truly epic villain song. :D

P.S. the serial killer remark was in reference to his skill at faking emotions and tricking his victims into trusting him, when in reality he is a murderous psycho. He's the closest Disney will ever come to a Ted Bundy-type villian, if you ask me. And one reason I like him so much as a villain is the sheer fact he's a very modern, real-life one. There aren't a whole lot of Maleficents in our world, really... :p
 

Le Saboteur

Active member
Haven't seen it. I might never see it -- that first trailer really turned me off -- but some people here might be really happy that Frozen just surpassed The Dark Knight on the global box office charts becoming the 9th highest grossing film of all time.

Yahoo! UK said:
It was only a week ago that Disney's 'Frozen' officially became the biggest grossing animated movie of all-time, but it appears there's no stopping the musical from reaching even dizzier heights, according to its most recent box office figures.

Having entered the exclusive top 10 of all-time list and knocking 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest' into 11th in the process, it's now edged past Christopher Nolan's 'The Dark Knight Rises' to take its place in the ninth spot.

Having overtaken 'Toy Story 3' as the biggest animation ever, 'Frozen' is now on $1,097,312,000 , after the Pixar trilogy conclusion took an impressive $1,063,171,911 back in 2010.

Full article: Frozen Makes More Than The Dark Knight Rises
 

kongisking

Active member
Le Saboteur said:
Haven't seen it. I might never see it -- that first trailer really turned me off

Well, it's my solemn duty to recommend movies like this, so please believe me when I say: the trailers were godawful tripe that horribly dis-serviced the movie. I too thought it would be awful from those previews! And yet...look how it turned out. "Never Trust a Trailer"...one of the wisest tropes out there. Please give it a chance.

Le Saboteur said:
but some people here might be really happy that Frozen just surpassed The Dark Knight on the global box office charts becoming the 9th highest grossing film of all time.

...and I'd say that's money well earned. Though, recently, I've been battling with myself over if this or The Lego Movie is really more deserving of being such a powerful cultural event like Frozen is. An argument could be made that while Frozen is a masterpiece by Disney standards, The Lego Movie is actually more thematically unique and thoughtful, and in a lot of ways aims for greater significance in its still-mocked medium.
 

russds

New member
Ha, yes, The Lego Movie was actually really, really good. Much better than I thought, and I have to say sitting in the theater watching them - The Lego Movie was much more entertaining and a joy to watch. Frozen is really good, but it's sort of just another well made movie...where as The Lego Movie has some surprises I wasn't expecting, and was really entertaining. Can't wait for that one on BR.
 

kongisking

Active member
Well, time to bring things full circle...

So, Frozen has by now become an ubiquitous pop culture force in the world, and now ABC is about to incorporate characters from the film into their fairy-tale-characters-in-the-real-world TV show "Once Upon A Time". That, and rumors persist that a Frozen 2 might be seriously in the works, and we know a Broadway play is in development. So, it seems like this film is going to be around for a while yet. And then Big Hero 6 is on its way, looking delightful, and the makers of Frozen are going to be making an animated adaptation of A Wrinkle In Time...It looks like this might just be a Second Renaissance of sorts... :D

Since it's been some time since the initial explosion of this film, I'm curious to hear thoughts by Raveners of the massive phenomenon its become since then. Is it deserved? Have "Let It Go" covers driven you mad yet? Do you re-watch the Blu-ray just to soak in the gorgeous animation? Do you watch Once Upon a Time, and are you interested in these characters debuting on it?
 

Stoo

Well-known member
kongisking said:
So, Frozen has by now become an ubiquitous pop culture force in the world,
That all depends on what "world" one is living in. If it wasn't for your thread here at The Raven, I'd be blissfully unaware of this movie.
kongisking said:
we know a Broadway play is in development.
What's with this "we" business? *You* might know about it but not everyone else does.
kongisking said:
Big Hero 6 is on its way,
That title sounds like another stupid superhero movie.
kongisking said:
Since it's been some time since the initial explosion of this film, I'm curious to hear thoughts by Raveners of the massive phenomenon its become since then. Is it deserved?
What is this "explosion" and "massive phenomenon"? It's a blip on the global radar.
kongisking said:
Have "Let It Go" covers driven you mad yet?
I've never heard any. Is the '80s hit song by Luba (from Montreal) really being covered so widely these days?:confused:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NK3L6ccMQ4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
kongisking said:
Do you re-watch the Blu-ray just to soak in the gorgeous animation?
No.
kongisking said:
Do you watch Once Upon a Time, and are you interested in these characters debuting on it?
I've never even heard of the show, let alone see it.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
The Drifter said:
I haven't even watched Frozen. I'm so outta the loop...
Congrats, but don't do it, Drifty! Please help save The Raven from turning into a Disney princess love-fest! (Remember the days of Redeemed Child?)

Watch "A Bridge Too Far" instead (if you haven't done so already). It's much more masculine!
 

kongisking

Active member
We must keep in mind, Stoo, that your distaste for this sort of thing probably means you don't actively look up or interact with the fandom of the film. Believe me, as someone who does, this thing was a huge pop culture event here in the States, and I've read about it making a big splash overseas too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_(2013_film)#Cultural_impact

Honestly, my friend, you should take all of this anger and just 'let it go.'* :p

*I'm a fountain of originality, yesiree...
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
kongisking said:
....this thing was a huge pop culture event here in the States, and I've read about it making a big splash overseas ]


This is why the terrorists are winning.
 
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