Why do you hate Willie Scott?

Raider Cat

New member
The Only Non-Hater Present?!!

I'm not saying Willie isn't a whinny, obnoxious, concieted, and spoiled little brat. But she's not the worst! It's just how she is!

But she isn't THAT bad! I mean, wow! So much loathing!!!


However, we all know Marion would kick her butt any day. :D
 

Raider Cat

New member
Maybe....

The Drifter said:
Marion is overrated. All she can do is drink and cuss. She tries to be tough, but she's nothing but a showoff.
But in the long-run, she can still hit Willie over the head with a frying pan....

That's would actually be kinda funny!
 

Darth Vile

New member
I don't think Willie Scott is the best female character in a movie, nor is she the worst. The character is obviously very much a cliche/pastiche (or nod to) to a specific 1930's/40's Hollywood female role played with aplomb by the likes of Katharine Hepburn, Rita Hayworth et al. So perhaps we shouldn't be looking at why we don't like the character, but rather why Kate Capshaw didn't do the role justice... Would Karen Allen have been better/more likeable playing a prudish, selfish snob type character?
 
The Drifter said:
Marion is overrated. All she can do is drink and cuss. She tries to be tough, but she's nothing but a showoff.
You're a goof, she's a successful busines woman, she not a helpless waif and she's not a b!tch.

Don't get me started on Willie again...

Darth Vile said:
...why Kate Capshaw didn't do the role justice...
She didn't read the script and she wasn't invested in the project.

Now, I guess we know what she invested in.

Capshaw: "Want to go to the prom with me?":rolleyes:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
She didn't read the script and she wasn't invested in the project.

Now, I guess we know what she invested in.

Capshaw: "Want to go to the prom with me?":rolleyes:

In a paradoxical manner, that actually qualifies her to play the character of Willie - who also wasn't didn't want to go with Indy, except if it was to a metaphorical Pankot prom.
 

The Drifter

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
You're a goof, she's a successful busines woman, she not a helpless waif and she's not a b!tch.

Don't get me started on Willie again...

The way you spout off about Willie, it sounds like she's an ex-girlfriend who dumped you for the popular jock.
And, I do think Marion is overrated, and she can also be a huge b!itch! ;)
 
Last edited:
Montana Smith said:
In a paradoxical manner, that actually qualifies her to play the character of Willie - who also wasn't didn't want to go with Indy, except if it was to a metaphorical Pankot prom.
Hmmm, sounds good on paper, but when it comes to having to rewrite the film around the whims of an "actress", (and I use that term as loose as her morals, take your pick which) it's a loser.

Surprised she didn't get an "Executive Producer" or story credit!:rolleyes:

The Drifter said:
The way you spout off about Willie, it sounds like she's an ex-girlfriend who dumped you for the popular jock.
I was able to overlook a lot of the little things for a long time, but reexamining the films through the retrospective and digging for interesting trivia destroyed any to capacity to turn a blind eye. Its almost UNBELIEVABLE how it all adds up...

Capshaw doesn't even try to hide her disdain...it's irreconcilable.

The Drifter said:
And, I do think Marion is overrated, and she can also be a huge b!itch! ;)
Now THIS is interesting...examples PLEASE!
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I was able to overlook a lot of the little things for a long time, but reexamining the films through the retrospective and digging for interesting trivia destroyed any to capacity to turn a blind eye. Its almost UNBELIEVABLE how it all adds up...

Capshaw doesn't even try to hide her disdain...it's irreconcilable.

Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Club Obi-Wan's Willie.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Hmmm, sounds good on paper, but when it comes to having to rewrite the film around the whims of an "actress", (and I use that term as loose as her morals, take your pick which) it's a loser.

Surprised she didn't get an "Executive Producer" or story credit!:rolleyes:

I was able to overlook a lot of the little things for a long time, but reexamining the films through the retrospective and digging for interesting trivia destroyed any to capacity to turn a blind eye. Its almost UNBELIEVABLE how it all adds up...

Capshaw doesn't even try to hide her disdain...it's irreconcilable.

You obviously have more insight into it than I do Rocket. I'll always try and give em the benefit of doubt. I know that she saw herself as a more serious actor and the thought of portraying a screaming, helpless female didn't appeal to her. She also fast established a 'closer' relationship with Spielberg (at what point I'm not sure)... what else have you read/heard???
 
Montana Smith said:
Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Club Obi-Wan's Willie.
Eh, blow it out your posterior!

Darth Vile said:
You obviously have more insight into it than I do Rocket. I'll always try and give em the benefit of doubt.
Me too.

Darth Vile said:
I know that she saw herself as a more serious actor and the thought of portraying a screaming, helpless female didn't appeal to her.
She sure snapped up that role though eh? If you're a professional in any given discipline you bring something of yourself to your work...you're not a machine, but I said it before about her: if it's not on the page its not on the stage. Not only did she not read the script before signing, she hadn't read it DURING filming. They had to rewrite the whole snake scene during the trek to Pancot because she had a nervous breakdown when she found out about it...on set. There's a great Alison Doody interview where she recalls them hammering her durring the casting process over here willingness to do the rat scene. They forgave Capshaw, but didn't forget the burden...

In view of all the details her: "I'm a serious actress" opinion doesn't hold water...it's a Band-Aid for the publicity tour, and I came across so many inteviews like that.

The making of Temple documentary is full of these Capshaw/Willie moments...and I can't help but feel it's where Spielberg sold Indy out to his libido.

My favorite is Frank Marshall putting a snippet of himself in his Temple doc to finish a segment: I don't know what Kate is complaining about.

He's sort of the Montana Smith of the group...he's too polite to come right out and say it, so he addresses it slyly.

Unfortunately the shroud of the darkside has clouded his vision and the middle of the road approach means the slaughter of the jedi.

Darth Vile said:
She also fast established a 'closer' relationship with Spielberg (at what point I'm not sure)... what else have you read/heard???
Watch the Temple doc, and google some of the TV interviews/specials. I'll post some of them here in my future travels.

Stoo has a few on his YouTube Channel...
 
Last edited:

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Eh, blow it out your posterior!

...

My favorite is Frank Marshall putting a snippet of himself in his Temple doc to finish a segment: I don't know what Kate is complaining about.

He's sort of the Montana Smith of the group...he's too polite to come right out and say it, so he addresses it slyly.

Hmm, your experience of Kate Capsaw has left a deep psychological impact. In Freudian terms its manifested itself as a hatred of Willie.

If Willie disgusts you, it's because Kate Capshaw played the role to perfection. She had to be annoying enough that even Indy would refuse a night with Willie.
 
Montana Smith said:
Hmm, your experience of Kate Capsaw has left a deep psychological impact. In Freudian terms its manifested itself as a hatred of Willie.
Nah, I have to say it's a lot like watching Crystal Skull. I so loved Raiders I was able to turn a blind eye to the things that were below par. It's only after trying to understand and accept Temple on it's own terms that I realized the cumulative effect and brazen contempt she had for the role effected the final product. It's unforgivable.

Montana Smith said:
If Willie disgusts you, it's because Kate Capshaw played the role to perfection. She had to be annoying enough that even Indy would refuse a night with Willie.
I get you and agree: art and life, life and art...but up until the point that Spielberg sold out Indy and didn't make Capshaw honor her word.

If what you propose is true and we apply that to the film Indy wouldn't have stopped at Pancot at all because of Willie's bitching! :)

227a.jpg


"Fine Kate...we'll cange the movie for you. We'll have Milius re-write the scene and everyone will learn the new stuff as we film other stuff..."

Kate interrupts:

"Oh Steven, I'll make it up to you...again."
 
Last edited:

The Drifter

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Now THIS is interesting...examples PLEASE!

She punches Indy for starters! Willie just slaps him, and that was when Indiana was under the influence of Kali.
She demands to be his partner when he just needed the headpiece. She flirted with Belloq, swapped spit with Sallah, giggled like a retard after going off the three waterfalls, She caused Mutt to slap his jewels against the bushes, (Hey, that may be a redeeming quality).

Also I remember her acting like a helpless maiden during the Well of the Souls scene, during the opening of the Ark, and when she became trapped in the Flying Wing.
 
You're really reaching Birthday Boy.

The Drifter said:
She punches Indy for starters! Willie just slaps him, and that was when Indiana was under the influence of Kali.
Ok, for starters Indiana Jones DESERVED it. Whatever he did even his boss and your avatar Marcus knew enough to say that Marion was the least of his worries. You're WAY off base on that one.

The only thing Indy did to Willie was pull her bacon out of the fire...(read "fat ass"), and that means SAVE her. Something she didn't even attempt to do for little old Mr Round.

The Drifter said:
She demands to be his partner when he just needed the headpiece.
She declares they are partners UNTIL she gets her money. Who cares what Indy needs? Indy wants to play, Indy's got to pay. That's just fair baby.

The Drifter said:
She flirted with Belloq
Hmmm, flirting makes you a bitch?:rolleyes: No meat on that bone.


The Drifter said:
swapped spit with Sallah
Ew! No wonder you like Willie! You blow, things out of all proportion! Next thing you know you'll claim she was a lesbian and a pedophile because she sent kisses to his wife and kids.

The Drifter said:
giggled like a retard after going off the three waterfalls, She caused Mutt to slap his jewels against the bushes, (Hey, that may be a redeeming quality).
You really are going to have to explain how any of these things make her a b-i-t-c-h.:confused:

The Drifter said:
Also I remember her acting like a helpless maiden during the Well of the Souls scene,
First off...not a b!tch secondly, how?

The Drifter said:
...during the opening of the Ark
When she was flanked by soldiers who didn't speak english with submachine guns trained on her?:rolleyes:

The Drifter said:
...and when she became trapped in the Flying Wing.
Was that when she knocked out Frank Marshall so he couldn't shoot Indy and then tried to get him off the controls so they didn't attract any MORE attention?

She saved Indy many times, cracked nails be damned!

Oh, and she was hotter than Willie.
 
Last edited:

michael

Well-known member
At least there's hope that Willie came out of India a less selfish person.

Elsa never changed, lead to her demise.

Marion, well we just assume she can deal with all that 'adventuring' because her and Indy are so alike.

Hate on Willie is overrated.
 

Henry W Jones

New member
What Willie Contributes to TOD

I love TOD from beginning to end. It was a huge movie from my childhood. But even as a child, as a character I liked Marion better and thought Willie was a bit annoying at times and little help to anyone including herself. Here's what Willie contributes to TOD.....

OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! B*TCH AND COMPLAIN OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6513048825_9ce60893f5.jpg" width="500" height="214" alt="INDIANAJONES_TOD_169-0"></a>

^This picture says it all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Col. Detritch

New member
Exactly! And that's what makes her character work. Let's face it, Marion would have been dreadfully dull in ToD. The movie needed a victim to experience all the nightmarish horrors from a slightly more realistic and/or humorous perspective. That sure wasn't gonna be war-hardened adventurer Indiana Jones (I mean he's human but not the butt of the joke - he's our hero/anti-hero) or his orphaned, street-smart sidekick Short Round (though a terrified child could have worked quite well Shorty was not that child) or even Marion (her terror would have been plain awkward after her character establishment in the beginning of Raiders). And that's where Willie comes in. She works in this horrific setting - less so in a Raiders or LC atmosphere.

Plus might I add (with the up-most respect for women) that it would be boring and highly unrealistic if every 1930s woman Indy met was independent and tough. Willie fits the era and the stereotype these serials perpetuated. Love her or hate her, she works in context and Kate Capshaw's work ethic is irrelevant - I mean honestly, how many movies have I seen her in again? ;)

:hat:
 
Henry W Jones said:
[Willie:] OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!...B*TCH AND COMPLAIN OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!! OH MY ...OH MY GOD!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!! SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!! SCREAM!
Heh heh hehahhhhh...it never gets old, doest it? ACTING!

Col. Detritch said:
Exactly! And that's what makes her character work.
Huh?:confused:

Col. Detritch said:
Let's face it, Marion would have been dreadfully dull in ToD.
WHAT?

Rocket Surgeon said:
The fight in Club Obi Wan ends up petty much the same with Willie getting the antidote and going out the window with Indy. Same "who ARE you"? Same crash landing, but Indy goes "Bust Diving" for the antidote IMMEDIATELY. A goon or stooge, doesn't have to be the sideburned greaseball from upstairs, (maybe it could be) comes crashing through the plate glass window or door with Marion right behind him, she's got some blunt instrument...maybe a pot or wok. She sees the Duesenberg, gives a relieved grin, tosses the pot/ wok over her shoulder as the goon struggles to get up hitting him in the head again. She tells Shorty to move over, but Lao's son and crew come spilling out in the street behind her and before she can get the door open Shorty hits the gas and she's lucky enough to get in the back seat, Indy between her and Willie. Indy's still digging and Marion deadpans what the hell is THIS act? Indy, starting to sway and smirk comes up with the vial and smiles drunkenly at Marion.

Willie says I hope you choke on it, Marion says no chance...it wouldn't be that easy! Gunfire erupts and Indy manages a sick, (ill) sort of it's not what you're thinking Marion. Willie concurs with a "what do you mean/I'm not that kind of girl. Marion says "oh, you two deserve each other" and grabs Indy's gun...(not what you're thinking/see Spalko's election thread...hell maybe it is!) She fires back and Indy starts to come around but not before he dry heaves and Marion pushes his face towards Willie, Willie pushes it back, etc...(hillarity ensues). This get Indy pissed and he snaps out of it long enough to grab his gun back and cause some real damage in the fight.

Marion turns to shorty who starts in on his "this is fun"! He's driving, Marions being a backseat driver giving directions, Willie is whining shrieking and complaining, (big stretch) He's just a kid! Indy gives Marion his gun and looks like he's going to puke again, he sways between them again and Willie hits him and shrieks. Marion pushes the gun and fresh rounds on her telling her to be usefull...that she'll make sure he doesn't soil her precious dress. Gun goes out the window, Shorty loses Lao's men for the time being and they pull up to the airport. Getting out Willie is crying that she's on the outside too and has nowhere to go, that they've left her no home to return to. Indy's sickness is comming in waves and he manages to tell Marion she looks really pretty but she's not acepting the "hollow" compliment as Willie rents the moment between them where Marion is helping Indy in two, and makes her presence gratingly obvious. They object, not enough tickets, joke about her weight, plane capacity/fuel ratio. it all sounds rather self serving. Shorty asks about Wu Han, Indy shakes his head. Willie demands to go with them, Webber recognizes her and hastily flatters her. Marion tells him, get rid of her Jones and let's go, but she tags along. Indy tells Marion he can't hit a girl, (Marion makes the "what about back at the club" gesture but dismisses it). Indy turns and says his nice try Lao Che. Marion facepalms Willie out the door as Indy slams it catching her precious dress ripping it from her leaving her in her skivies, (like "Babs" Blutarsky in Animal House)...Webber comforts her while camera closes in on Lao's parting shot.

...and that's just the first part.

Let's face it...Willie is a one note strumpet who can't fill a supporting role. A walk on sure.

Col. Detritch said:
The movie needed a victim to experience all the nightmarish horrors from a slightly more realistic and/or humorous perspective.
Unfortunately we got Willie and not a decent character or actress.

Col. Detritch said:
That sure wasn't gonna be war-hardened adventurer Indiana Jones (I mean he's human but not the butt of the joke - he's our hero/anti-hero) or his orphaned, street-smart sidekick Short Round (though a terrified child could have worked quite well Shorty was not that child)
Showing a terrified Short Round would have plunged the film to even darker territory.

Col. Detritch said:
...or even Marion (her terror would have been plain awkward after her character establishment in the beginning of Raiders).
Huh? She was terrified by Toht, scared of snakes and mummies, grossed out by the mechanic's close shave and awestuck/crying at the end of Raiders.

Come on, you have to do better than that!
Col. Detritch said:
And that's where Willie comes in. She works in this horrific setting - less so in a Raiders or LC atmosphere.
It was one note though. It never changed. It's the same thing over and over. It ultimately FAILS towards the end. It's so constant we become desensitized to it. We don't share the emotion we write her off.

Col. Detritch said:
Plus might I add (with the up-most respect for women) that it would be boring and highly unrealistic if every 1930s woman Indy met was independent and tough. Willie fits the era and the stereotype these serials perpetuated.
I'll leave the Women of Serials to those that know better, but the problem with Willie is she doesn't change. We get tired of hearing it, like Indy says: "Shut up Willie".

Col. Detritch said:
Love her or hate her, she works in context and Kate Capshaw's work ethic is irrelevant...
How is it irrelevant?


Col. Detritch said:
- I mean honestly, how many movies have I seen her in again? ;)
Who knows but you? How many?
:p
 
Top