The Macguffin ?

barranca

New member
There seems to be only one piece of concrete evidence about just what the Macguffin is in Indy 4 and bizzarly enough thats the 'lego' set.
If one examines the photo.......
7627-1.jpg


you can clearly see that there are 4 figure that arent as yet identifiable, 3 'skeleton type figures with blue heads' and one 'coquistador' with a very obvious skull face.
I believe the 3 skeleton types are the 'aliens' the blue head/face hard to make out as they are crystal.
The coquistador a 'ghost' of sorts.
It may also be significant that these figures are out standing mixed with other characters suggesting they are 'alive' and interact with the others.
In other images of other sets the skeleton characters are just 'dressing' for the set.
Also if one looks at the kit there are very obvious booby traps, puzzles and levers that operate play features that relate to the action of the film as in other kits.
The levers towards the top have skulls attached, this could suggest that the crystal skulls are simply a part of the mechanism within the Temple as a whole.
What I find most significant about the kit, and incongrous about the temples design is the 'two armed device at the top' which is I think is the MACGUFFIN.
What its purpose is I dont know but from a little research into crystal skulls Soviet history etc I have gleamed the following.
Kruschev in 1957 was very interested in creating an EM weapon. The skulls are reputed to have EM properties too ( coincidence ?). Perhaps this is what the Device is or a property it has that the Russians wish to pervert.

Of course all of this is mere speculation but if anyone else has any thoughts or observations....
 

barranca

New member
See Also scalar EM Whittaker beam weapons, scalar EM interferometers "Prigogine" transistors. The Soviets did extensive research into this with lots of success in the 1950's. these weapons reputedly have 'Twin beams' ( the temple top !).
 

1ord3vil

New member
The previous MacGuffins had significance both as physical objects as well as through the powers they provided. In Raiders, they weren't merely looking for the lost Ark containing the ten commandments. As Marcus Brody said: "The Bible speaks of the Ark leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions. An army which carries the Ark before it... is invincible."

Invincibility. Powers man has been craving since ancient times and the ultimate weapon for the nazis and the Third Reich.

And in Crusade, it wasn't simply about recovering the cup used by Jesus at his last meal. Donovan says: "Eternal life, Dr. Jones. The gift of youth to whoever drinks from the Grail."

Eternal life. One of man's age old dreams come true.

The Vanity Fair articles and interviews reveal that the latest installment, including the MacGuffin most likely, has moved from ancient mythology into the realm of science fiction. Lucas has also mentioned that the MacGuffin was something that had been under their noses all the time, so it's probably something from popular culture people are already familiar with. So what could it be?

Proof of extraterrestrial life? This idea is captivating and cool if pretty unorthodox in the Indy universe (but I won't mind if it's executed well). But there's no inherent power in such a discovery alone. It's not like the any of the parties can bring "proof of extraterrestrial life" with them back home and achieve great power and influence.

So could it be alien technology? It would make for an incredible discovery and possibly incredible power, but it's rather unspecific. For this to work, I think it has to be something most people can easily understand or relate to. Some rumors (and they were only rumors) spoke of using the skull to manipulate time in some way. Maybe time travel? Perhaps teleportation in some way would work? The "alien technology" category holds a large number of possibilities.

Are there any recurring things or themes from the 1950s B-movies which could be used for a macguffin? Also, the Vanity Fair articles mention that Lucas got his idea in 1993, which is the same year as The X-Files first aired. Maybe it's something which is explored in the first season of The X-Files? It's a shot in the dark, but Lucas does mention the TV series one of the articles.
 

barranca

New member
The litereature on EM technology mentions that these 'devices' have numerous properties as weapons, influencing health, manipulating weather, warping time/space, they would give the 'owner' enormous power & they could be used for good or perverted, in the same way the previous macguffins all have.
 

1ord3vil

New member
barranca said:
The litereature on EM technology mentions that these 'devices' have numerous properties as weapons, influencing health, manipulating weather, warping time/space, they would give the 'owner' enormous power & they could be used for good or perverted, in the same way the previous macguffins all have.

What is EM in the above? Electromagnetic? Effective Microorganisms? I suspect that these macguffins would quickly become too "esoteric" as Lucas put it. That is, the interest for them would be very limited in the intended audience and because of that they wouldn't work very well.
 

peterlally

New member
It took so long to come up with a plot device for indy 4 and it may well be a crap one.... BAH!!!

They had a damn good plot device and story when Hal Barwood came up with FOA. That would have been the best Indy every it would have made Raiders look bland.

Wasted Oppourtunity Whatever the MacGuffin it best be a good un, besides we dont really know what it is at all,

Last Crusade doesnt mean Holy Grail
Temple of Doom doesnt mean Sankara
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull doesn't mean Crystal Skulls

The MacGuffin could still be a Ford Model T for all we know.
 

Indy's Sidekick

New member
Under our noses

When they said it was under their noses, you don't suppose it was the ark they were talking about do you?

And I agree with PeterLally. This is turning out to be a blah idea. It will take brilliant execution to make it work. Maybe someone will make a fan film FOA.:cool:
 

commontone

New member
The thing on the top of the pyramid reminds me of one of Nikolai Tesla's inventions. He wasn't Russian, but I know the military in several nations tried to turn his concepts into weapons, well past his death.

He theorized an EM weapon that could target any place on the planet. Remember in The Prestige when Tesla has managed to power light bulbs miles away from his lab, without wires? That was absolutely true, he did it, and it's possible. The only reason we don't use wireless power is that it's too hard to regulate (charge for) it.
 

barranca

New member
Tesla Exactly ! thank you, thats what struck me initially. I don't see how 'it would be hard to make it work' its an 'energy weapon' and can be explained away as simply as anything in trek, star wars or Dr who is 'most people can get their heads round that sort of stuff, so why not this.
I'm not supposing this as fact; just a theory, it just struck me that we had a big chunk of spoiler material here that no-one had given a second thought to.
If anyone has any idea WHAT that object is on the temple I'd love to here it, as I have no real idea what it is.
The USSR R&D into EM technology is fact and tallies with the time scale too, even if the script was set 10 yrs prior to 57.
Does anyone have any further ideas about the Skeleton Guys?
 

Arkimedes

New member
The mechanism on top of that temple is interesting. I have come up with a theory about it. What if with all the rumors we hear about the Ark of the Covenant possibly making a return, that the russians want to use the Ark of the Covenant as the power source for that device on the temple? Isn't the Ark considered an ancient form of battery or capacitor? Maybe the Russians want to harness the power of the Ark for a reason (some kind of super weapon perhaps?) But, anyway it's just a thought...
 

1ord3vil

New member
barranca said:
Tesla Exactly ! thank you, thats what struck me initially. I don't see how 'it would be hard to make it work' its an 'energy weapon' and can be explained away as simply as anything in trek, star wars or Dr who is 'most people can get their heads round that sort of stuff, so why not this.
Sure, a death ray could work just as well as time travel, teleportation or anything else which is easy to explain and understand, but it's not like I think any of these things will come even close to be as captivating as the lost Ark in Raiders was.

If any of these or similar ideas are actually used, it's going to take a good amount of exceptionally good execution to make it really work. And if Indy 4 contains as much slapstick as Lucas' other recent movies did, not to mention Last Crusade, I have a hard time seeing it happen.
Does anyone have any further ideas about the Skeleton Guys?
In the picture, they're regular LEGO skeletons with transparent regular heads on them. On top of the transparent heads there appear to be specialized new headpieces attached, transparent with some blue print on them, suggestive of elongated skulls. No idea what the blue print is supposed to be.

When I see the picture, I get the idea that the crystal skulls will be portrayed as the cranial remains of aliens, that their skulls are made of crystal rather than bone. Seeing the skeletons standing upright next to the other charactes could suggest that they're animated and somehow interact with the other characters in the movie, but there's really no way to know.

Having said these things, I also have to say I hope that I'm totally and utterly wrong about most of them and that the movie turns out to be a lot better than my above ramblings suggest. :gun:
 

barranca

New member
Interesting about the Ark, however they didnt include it in the set, that rules it out for me. Although it looks fairly certain that it'll pop up somewhere in the movie given the warehouse set.
 
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Violet

Moderator Emeritus
I think the thing on the top is something to harness and concentrate (or even further) the power of the Crystal Skull. There's a cylinder thing on it, that looks to be like it could be a container for the Skull to be in.
 

sneakertinker

New member
Would it be too far of a stretch to say that maybe the thing ontop could be some type of alien machine that uses the power of the skulls to re-animate the dead...ala the Skeleton figures and the alien figures...After all this movie is going to be along the theme lines of a 50's B-grade movie according to the Vanity Fair report...
 

1ord3vil

New member
sneakertinker said:
After all this movie is going to be along the theme lines of a 50's B-grade movie according to the Vanity Fair report...
The thing with Raiders is that it isn't just a 1930s serial rehash. The filmmakers realized that they had to make considerable effort to modernize the format in order to be able to appeal to the audience of the 1980s.

They're going to have make the same effort to make the 1950s B-movie format appealing and enjoyable to people living in the 2000s. If they don't, you're going to see a lot of people leaving the theaters in disgust and disbelief on opening night.

Lucas, Spielberg and Ford are almost 30 years older than when they started work on Raiders, so I think the biggest concern is that we're going to get too much of sentimental nostalgia instead of a thrilling and captivating 1950s (sci-fi) adventure made modern.
 

JerryKing

Member
In what might be one of the worst possible case scenarios, the device hidden in the temple's top would turn out to be a transmitter for talking to aliens... and calling this guy:
close_l.jpg
 

effin

New member
I think the skeletons are standing in the lego set just to show they come with the playset, nothing more nothing less.
 

Falco09

New member
effin said:
I think the skeletons are standing in the lego set just to show they come with the playset, nothing more nothing less.


Agreed, I believe if we see them in the film they will be in the temple and very dead (and not un-dead and walking around).
 
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