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Old 09-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #1
Rocket Surgeon
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Could it have been worse?

I don't know, I see all the glad handers and wonder what would have spoiled Indiana Jones for YOU?

I don't see all the hatred that the kool aid drinkers whine about.

I see members who cringe at the new Indiana Jones and a vocal fringe who suffer from growing up in an age of entitlement, the "Everyone Should Get a Trophy Syndrome".

I asked the big ape what would it take for you to dislike it, a South Park dream sequence?

So here's the challenge, what would they have had to screen for you to reject it?
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
I don't know, I see all the glad handers and wonder what would have spoiled Indiana Jones for YOU?

I don't see all the hatred that the kool aid drinkers whine about.

I see members who cringe at the new Indiana Jones and a vocal fringe who suffer from growing up in an age of entitlement, the "Everyone Should Get a Trophy Syndrome".

I asked the big ape what would it take for you to dislike it, a South Park dream sequence?

So here's the challenge, what would they have had to screen for you to reject it?

Since I do reject it, I can't answer that last question. (Though I did start a thread where haters can post about the things they actually like about CS. While it's not a great film, it's still an Indy movie, and has a few things in it that make me smile.)

I believe a lot of it boils down to the viewer's age. Perhaps you've got something with the age of entitlement. I don't know if that's all it is, though.

I see the same thing with Star Wars. I grew up on the original trilogy, so I thought the prequels sucked. But if you talk to 20 somethings, they generally love the prequels and don't see anything wrong with them. To me, they're as boring as watching someone play a video game for two hours. Talk to them about the original trilogy, and they just say, 'Sure it was fine then, but look how dated it is now.' They like the pacing and the CGI of the prequels. And for some reason they don't mind the bad acting or the paper thin characters.

As time marches on (I turn 41 Friday) I find myself feeling more and more like Old Indy, cranky and cynical, and griping about how youngsters these days don't know anything.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:31 AM   #3
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Arrow

I wouldn't chalk it all up to age; anyway, truth be told, I always had the impression it tended to be younger viewers (20-somethings) who were its most vehement, vocal detractors.

I'm 44 myself, and while I do agree it's the weakest in the series I still enjoy it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #4
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It could have been worse.

The film could have been populated by twenty of Short Round's screaming offspring.

It could have been The Goonies.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
I believe a lot of it boils down to the viewer's age. Perhaps you've got something with the age of entitlement. I don't know if that's all it is, though.
In terms of why those who love it love it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
I see the same thing with Star Wars. I grew up on the original trilogy, so I thought the prequels sucked. But if you talk to 20 somethings, they generally love the prequels and don't see anything wrong with them. To me, they're as boring as watching someone play a video game for two hours.
Would that feel like participating in a team sport where everyone is a winner?

As far as Star Wars goes, what did you think about Disney's The Black Hole? Is anyone still talking about that film, (besides and example of course!).

Was it as good as the original trilogy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
for some reason they don't mind the bad acting or the paper thin characters.
Such are the quality of the hooks of the original trilogy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
As time marches on (I turn 41 Friday) I find myself feeling more and more like Old Indy, cranky and cynical, and griping about how youngsters these days don't know anything.
From what I read on THE Indiana Jones message board I can't help but think everything is Grrr-eat!
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
It could have been worse. The film could have been populated by twenty of Short Round's screaming offspring. It could have been The Goonies.
Ohh, a practical example!

But Tanna, The Goonies was what it was supposed to be! Why can't you just accept it?
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
...what did you think about Disney's The Black Hole?

I really like that movie, it was one of the first movies i saw on the big screen, I have a distinct memory of that giant fireball coming through the ship. Has a great score too!
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
But Tanna, The Goonies was what it was supposed to be! Why can't you just accept it?

Thou speaketh in tongues, heretic!

For KOTCS was also what it was supposed to be, but is also far beyond the realms of acceptance. When the lamb layeth down with the wolf it produceth an abomination.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Thou speaketh in tongues, heretic!

For KOTCS was also what it was supposed to be, but is also far beyond the realms of acceptance. When the lamb layeth down with the wolf it produceth an abomination.
My hero!

Indiana Jones and the Heretic's Tongue...hmmm.

You have to admit it was a well funded and polished abomination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
It could have been worse.The film could have been populated by twenty of Short Round's screaming offspring. It could have been The Goonies.
That would have ruined it for you?
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Originally Posted by russds
I really like that movie, it was one of the first movies i saw on the big screen, I have a distinct memory of that giant fireball coming through the ship. Has a great score too!
You don't say you liked it because it was another Disney film or that it was good.

No one yet who liked it...at least there was a brave Black Hole fan.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
It could have been worse.

The film could have been populated by twenty of Short Round's screaming offspring.

It could have been The Goonies.
I hate the Goonies. I had to watch it in school.

And yes, it could have been much worse. I say the writing is pretty good, B+, A- material. It looks very good. It does what it wants and is supposed to do. It's a B adventure movie.
It isn't as good as the first three, but I like it a lot. And so does Roger Ebert.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by I, Don Quixote
I hate the Goonies. I had to watch it in school.

And yes, it could have been much worse. I say the writing is pretty good, B+, A- material. It looks very good. It does what it wants and is supposed to do. It's a B adventure movie.
It isn't as good as the first three, but I like it a lot. And so does Roger Ebert.

So what would have been over the line for Crystal Skull?


What would have been the straw to break the camel's back?

I think the writing is C at best and the material is a C- at best.

Indiana Jones was inspired by the B movie, it's not supposed to be one.
$125 million to $185 million is not a B movie budget.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
So what would have been over the line for Crystal Skull?


What would have been the straw to break the camel's back?

Hath Indy sleep the eternal dream for hope of redemption be not offered.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:45 PM   #12
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I think at this point, I love Indiana Jones so much that anything done to it, I'd find an excuse to defend it. So I may be entirely delusional in my love of KOTCS. All I ask is that people not treat folks like me who admit to loving it as if we are somehow idiots for thinking such. Do I call Anti-KOTCSers jerks or scumbags for not liking it? No, I do not. At least, not anymore. In fact, I'm now quite willing to agree with many of their critiques of the film, and admit that it is not as great as the OT.

It's just a shame all KOTCS lovers aren't like me. Sadly, we lovers have our Montana Smiths and such who snidely poke unfair jabs at the opposing side as well, so there is filth on both sides, yes sir. I'm just one of the pathetic few trying to keep up a facade of decency and respect for all opinions. Which I'm well aware goes against all the rules of Internet discussion, where people seem to think being in cyberspace gives you the right to be a snide, cruel and vulgar jerk to those who don't agree with you.

Does anyone get what I'm getting at here? Does anyone agree that the lovers and haters should stop being so damned crappy to each other, and try to reconcile their differing opinions? Does ANYONE believe in honesty and respect on the web anymore, or was I just raised with a different set of values that most kids my age? Ugh...
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
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"a snide, cruel and vulgar jerk" Who's calling names now?

"If you want to stop terrorism, stop participating in it." Noam Chomsky

Opposing view points are necessary in the process of critiquing. If there were only agreement, it wouldn't be a very interesting thing we were critiquing or there may not be a thing at all.

"When the critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself." Oscar Wilde

Not that I think the 'artists' behind CS were in accord with themselves myself, but you know what I mean.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
I think at this point, I love Indiana Jones so much that anything done to it, I'd find an excuse to defend it.
Let your freak flag fly...but it is good to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
Do I call Anti-KOTCSers jerks or scumbags for not liking it? No, I do not. At least, not anymore.
Got a good laugh out of this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
I'm just one of the pathetic few trying to keep up a facade of decency and respect for all opinions. Which I'm well aware goes against all the rules of Internet discussion, where people seem to think being in cyberspace gives you the right to be a snide, cruel and vulgar jerk to those who don't agree with you.
Oh, now you're losing me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kongisking
was I just raised with a different set of values that most kids my age? Ugh...
Come over to my place,I have a trophy for you!

I appreciate your delusional honesty...so without starting another thread, how crazy would you have LIKED it to get?

Armor on the monkeys? Would Indy kissing the Alien IDB on the cheek be too much?
How about a full on love scene with Marion... hmm huh hmm?
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
so without starting another thread, how crazy would you have LIKED it to get?

Armor on the monkeys?
I'd like to see monkeys wearing armor. Really, I would. Not guys in monkey suits like Wizard of Oz or Planet of the Apes. Real monkeys. That'd be awesome. And might have improved Crystal Skull, like, if the Ugha warriors would have had an army of armor wearing monkeys. Maybe armor adapted from Conquistador armor. Yes, I would have liked it to get that crazy. It was already a goner. Why not?
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
I'd like to see monkeys wearing armor. Really, I would. Not guys in monkey suits like Wizard of Oz or Planet of the Apes. Real monkeys. That'd be awesome. And might have improved Crystal Skull, like, if the Ugha warriors would have had an army of armor wearing monkeys. Maybe armor adapted from Conquistador armor. Yes, I would have liked it to get that crazy. It was already a goner. Why not?

As long as the armor was organic right? Like woven strangler branch gauntlets or fanged skulls as codpieces
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
As long as the armor was organic right? Like woven strangler branch gauntlets or fanged skulls as codpieces

Personally, I'd prefer metal armor - like I said, perhaps adapted from conquistador armor. Vines and stuff wouldn't do it for me. Traditional metal armor. But I like the fanged skull codpiece idea.

This monkey armor design is coming right along. Maybe for Indy V.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:49 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by goodeknight
Personally, I'd prefer metal armor - like I said, perhaps adapted from conquistador armor. Vines and stuff wouldn't do it for me. Traditional metal armor. But I like the fanged skull codpiece idea.

This monkey armor design is coming right along. Maybe for Indy V.

Haven't finished Ape Slaves of Howling Island, (there are so many choices!) but has it been done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
... might have improved Crystal Skull, like, if the Ugha warriors would have had an army of armor wearing monkeys. Maybe armor adapted from Conquistador armor. Yes, I would have liked it to get that crazy. It was already a goner. Why not?
If the Ugha's stopped their pursuit at the foot of the temple/pyramid and the trees started to shake and shriek. Then the flood of alien controled monkeys get things moving again...trumped by the momma skull of course.

Might have lit the fire to open the retacting stair case and provided falling moneys to impale!

Last edited by Rocket Surgeon : 09-18-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #19
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Haven't finished Ape Slaves of Howling Island, (there are so many choices!) but has it been done?

Face the rabid dobermans and make for an escape - turn to page 98.
Run for the treasure room, guarded by monkeys wearing armor with fanged skull codpieces - turn to page 112.



Wait 19 years and Spielberg will be saying, "Well, we couldn't come up with anything better, so we went with George's Ape Slaves idea..."
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:01 AM   #20
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So here's the challenge, what would they have had to screen for you to reject it?

If Shia wore the hat.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:11 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Forbidden Eye
If Shia wore the hat.
Ooooh...that would have been tough.

Would you care if, when he wore it, he was killed by case of mistaken identity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodeknight
Face the rabid dobermans and make for an escape - turn to page 98.
Run for the treasure room, guarded by monkeys wearing armor with fanged skull codpieces - turn to page 112.
Who wouldn't rip pages to get to page 112?!

Wait...you better not have spoiled the book man!
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by I, Don Quixote
...yes, it could have been much worse.

How?

What would keep you from ever watching it again, or at least making excuses for it?

What would have poisoned your soul?

Sorry...had to
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Forbidden Eye
If Shia wore the hat.

And Harrison had refused to be in the film.


Now that would have been far worse.

After a test showing Indy 4 would have 'gone straight to video'. Most copies would have gathered dust on the shelves until somebody decided it would be best to donate them all to charity shops. Invariably 90% of them would have ended up as landfill.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Let your freak flag fly...but it is good to know.


Got a good laugh out of this one.


Oh, now you're losing me...

Come over to my place,I have a trophy for you!

I appreciate your delusional honesty...so without starting another thread, how crazy would you have LIKED it to get?

Armor on the monkeys? Would Indy kissing the Alien IDB on the cheek be too much?
How about a full on love scene with Marion... hmm huh hmm?

Okay, I'll admit, I just shot myself in the foot with my little "cruel, snide and vulgar jerks" remark. Like I said, I used to be just as vicious toward the opposing side as a lot of haters are to my kin, so I must have been relapsing unintentionally. You still get my point, though, right?

And I'd say that I think KOTCS went just crazy enough without being offensively crazy. I'm a-okay with pretty much all the silly things they did in it, because in my mind, it's justified by sheer dint of being still relatively in the style of Indy.

And I'm not crazy myself. To quote a friend:

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Old 09-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #25
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After a test showing Indy 4 would have 'gone straight to video'. Most copies would have gathered dust on the shelves until somebody decided it would be best to donate them all to charity shops. Invariably 90% of them would have ended up as landfill.

And the remaining dozen copies in people's hands would have become highly coveted collector's items. The three or so good scenes would be played over and over on YouTube, and people would pay $4,000 for one of the full DVDs. Then they'd watch it and say, "I paid $4,000 for that?"
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