Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Club Dumas?

Finally got around to reading The Club Dumas and thought Indiana Jones at many, many points untill vindication!

I'll start here...

The "hero" is a mercenary/scholar who acquires antiquarian books.
 
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Mickiana

Well-known member
Yes, there are parallels between Corso and Jones, for sure: Intellectual ability, ambition, ruthlessness, cunning and a sort of amorality, to name a few. They are both determined seekers of that which gratifies them and the object of their searches is not their ultimate goal. It's what the object brings them that they seek. For Jones, an academic coveting masks his lust for Fortune and Glory, while for Corso, money is his goal. They diverge, though, in one very important way toward the end of their particular journeys - Jones ends up abiding by a general social 'good', while Corso forms an all consuming desire to find "equality with God" and submits to the powers of darkness.
 
Mickiana said:
Yes, there are parallels between Corso and Jones,...Jones ends up abiding by a general social 'good', while Corso forms an all consuming desire to find "equality with God" and submits to the powers of darkness.

In the movie, sure...I didn't get that feeling from the book.

The book ends with
him and the girl, (Marion) leaving after an "unsatisfactory" conclusion...he didn't get his prize, (money).


Here's another:

The book, The Nine Doors to the Kingdom of Shadows serves as two parallels but I'll just mention one here.

Belloq calls the Ark a way to communicate with God and the Book serves as a way to summon the Devil, (as one of the book's examples: to discuss a "pact").
 
Lucas Corso (Indy)visits the "Ceniza brothers", (Imam) experts in book restoration to discuss(/interpret) the book's (Headpiece's)engravings.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
Coincidence or not? Is this where it may be subscribing to a formula? Or does it reflect a formula in life that is followed consciously or not? The parallel you have found is a type of inverse parallel. The Ceniza brothers are sort of cohorts of the devil, while Imam is willing to warn of God's wrath for those who disturb the Ark. Corso and Indiana are both questors for a prize - for Corso, beyond normal human experience (equality with God), for Indiana, beyond the mundane of life's normal satisfactions (fortune and glory). When I refer to Corso I do so to the movie character even though I have read the book. In a few ways I found the movie more satisfying than the book, which is unusual as it is normally the other way around.
 

Le Saboteur

Active member
Mickiana said:
When I refer to Corso I do so to the movie character even though I have read the book. In a few ways I found the movie more satisfying than the book, which is unusual as it is normally the other way around.

Which is odd considering that the movie ("The Ninth Gate") is constructed from a subplot of El Club Dumas.
 
Corso is joined on his "adventure" by "Irene Adler" (great name ((Marion))), his equal in many ways and a kindred spirit regarding (The Ark/Archeology)passions for not only books but, thankfully for this adventure especially, the heavenly/hellish subplot. Both females save the protagonist in the story literally and figuratively.

She's mid twenties and a frequent reminder of a past relationship gone bad because he had a one track mind...and was emotionally unavailable.

Mickiana said:
Coincidence or not? Is this where it may be subscribing to a formula? Or does it reflect a formula in life that is followed consciously or not? The parallel you have found is a type of inverse parallel. The Ceniza brothers are sort of cohorts of the devil, while Imam is willing to warn of God's wrath for those who disturb the Ark. Corso and Indiana are both questors for a prize - for Corso, beyond normal human experience (equality with God), for Indiana, beyond the mundane of life's normal satisfactions (fortune and glory). When I refer to Corso I do so to the movie character even though I have read the book. In a few ways I found the movie more satisfying than the book, which is unusual as it is normally the other way around.

That's the devilish part of the story! The ambiguity! The greatest trick the Devil ever played... The Ceniza brothers in the book and the film, do what they do for love of the craft, no matter what the book, (clearly referenced in the book). However the construct of the story puts the questions (including complicity and maybe duplicity)front and center and where the film emphasizes the supernatural is a REALITY, the book does not.

I always saw Imam as a neutral private contractor, a bibliophile if you will who merely informs them of the content they could not know for themselves. I never thought of him as partisan. Much the way I saw the Ceniza Brothers, (by the way, twins played by the same actor and composited in frame!).

In Raiders the supernatural is the payoff, and undeniable, but ambiguous till the end. In Ninth Gate it is sprinkled with varying degrees, and undeniable, always building towards the end. The beauty of the book is the battle between perception and reality. You don't know how the story will deal with these elements. Even at the very end there is doubt.
 
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Corso's occasional friend and fellow bibliophile, Flavio La Ponte isa sometimes comic foil and assistant on his adventure.

Much like Sallah, he is easily frightened and fears for the safety of his "wife and Children"
 
Borja explains his methodology and the symbolism in the ritual before he executes it.
The ritual goes awry, Borja meets with an unhappy ending.


Sounds like Belloq...
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
Good analysis Rocket Surgeon. They definitely are parallels. I have a copy of the book as I read it years ago after seeing the movie in 1999. I will reread it with this in mind. I agree that Imam and the Ceniza brothers seem like neutral contractors, but I think they err on respective sides of 'good' and 'evil'. This could be just my imagination or plain old assumption, but in my mind a wise scholar tends toward the good while the Ceniza brothers had a bit of devilish amusement about them. Again, I am thinking of the movie as I write this. Because of necessity, a movie has to compact into a couple of hours a story that can take many more hours to read. This type of conciseness (concision?) tends to cut to the heart of the matter. Mind you, I thought the movie was a bit plodding and predictable, not really riveting or suspenseful. But I liked its atmosphere and the various actors' performances.
 
Hey Mic,

I agree unequivocally, the movie's parallels PIVOT on the good and evil matter. Replace the artifact created as tribute to God, and replace it with an artifact created in tribute to the devil, and the rest fall into their respective camps.

I saw the film first and agree. I enjoyed the performances; the intrigue and atmosphere had a certain intensity, although Frank Langella (who I'm NOT afan of) was a bit too campy for my tastes at the party. The direction the picture took kept me wondering how it would play out...the mix of supernatural was interesting, it did lack the kind of spectacle ending of Raiders but ultimately left you conflicted just like watching the Ark being rolled down the hallway. It was one of the first roles I liked Depp in. He had that scholarly rouge about him and I felt that the one thing he would compromise his morality for were books...his passion.

Loved the mythology, (real and fabricated), Some of the names were "inspired": Aristide Torchia! Irene Adler! (pay attention you Shelock Holmes fans).

I enjoyed the Club Dumas, for the parallels they draw through the book to The Musketeers, (I'm a sucker for the Count of Monte Cristo...can you tell I have a Vengeance streak in me?). It, along with the references to other literary greats and the discussions of the antiquarian book culture were, excuse my choice of words f-ing cool! Nothing like getting an inside look at something mysterious and exclusive and being entertained as well. The background on Dumas as well was...enlightening.

Thanks for the back and forth...I appreciate the conversation.

P.S. I had to put the book down I was laughing so hard from those two words st he bottom of page 325, (my copy/hard cover).
 
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"Rochefort" spys on Corso, reports on his movements and tries to kill him in Spain.

The same type of character as a certain Monkey Man.
 
Corso compares the two copies of The Book of Nine Doors and notices slight differences in a few of the illustrations.

These differences, and implications are vaugely familiar. Like a headpiece with markings on one side...
 
Corso visits Baroness Frida Ungern, who owns the last copy of The Book of Nine Doors. Baroness Ungern and Corso share a flirtation as they discuss the books on the occult she has written as well as the personal history of Torchia. Corso is alerted to the presence of Rochefort. Later Corso drinks in a restaurant on the way back to his hotel he is assaulted by Rochefort, who is successfully repelled. Soon afterwards, they find Baroness Ungern has been killed in a fire at her library.

Much like the Raven with a few subtle differences. Baroness plays Marion at this point who has the headpiece, they flirt, they discuss the death of Abner, (Torchia, the father figure) Rochefort in this instance plays Toht who instigates the fight and the Baroness library burns down. After Corso, I mean Indy gets what he needs...
 
Last Crusade or The Club Dumas?

Alright, this one is still and Indiana Jones plot device, but taken from Last Crusade:

Liana Taillefer visits Corso in his hotel room and attempts to seduce him in return for "The Anjou Wine;" however, he sleeps with her and sends her on her way without giving her the manuscript, earning him an enemy (and not merely an opponent) for the rest of the story.

Elsa Schnieder anyone?:hat:
 
Last Crusade or The Club Dumas

Boris Balkan and eccentric book-collector Varo Borja both parallel Walter Donovan.

They finance his trip and play both sides of the fence, friend/enemy.
 
Raiders or The Ninth Gate

The Hero, fighting a hired thug for possession of an ancient artifact is saved by his recently acquired traveling companion/love interest.
 
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