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Old 12-12-2008, 06:23 PM   #26
Udvarnoky
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Some people have claimed that Spielberg is simply against the release of deleted scenes, but I'm not familiar with any actual proof of this, and some of his movies do in fact have deleted footage on the DVD. For whatever reason though Lucasfilm keeps the excised footage locked tight. I wouldn't hold my breath for them seeing the light day.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:52 PM   #27
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Which is probably true, and yet very unfortunate.

But it can't hurt to dream. Imagine if Paramount released deleted scenes of all four films somehow? How ridiculously fun would it be to watch em?
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:03 PM   #28
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Is there any reason why the deleated scenes were not on any of the DVD releases? I for one would love to see them as well as some alternate scenes.
At least I remember a quote about Spielberg's style of shooting, I guess it's from the bonus material on the DVD and it's the editor Michael Kahn uttering it - I paraphrase:

'There are no "deleted" scenes as Steven is very economical with setups. All scenes scripted are in the film, there are a couple of trimmed shots here and there and that's about it.'

Maybe it has been this way since Raiders?
Of course - like in Raiders - he sometimes used to add creative stuff in the spur of the moment, when he was younger. No, scratch these last words...

Martin
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #29
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I think it's more of a Lucasfilm thing; note the absence of long-craved deleted scenes from the DVD releases of the original Star Wars movies (though the prequel releases do have them).
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by martinland
'There are no "deleted" scenes as Steven is very economical with setups. All scenes scripted are in the film, there are a couple of trimmed shots here and there and that's about it.'

Maybe it has been this way since Raiders?

Although Spielberg is notorious for his efficiency and planning, and therefore accumulates a minimum of excised footage, every movie has it, including all Indiana Jones movies, as we of course know for fact. Whether or not they're mere "trims" means little to the obsessive fan.
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Old 12-15-2008, 09:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Crack that whip
I think it's more of a Lucasfilm thing; note the absence of long-craved deleted scenes from the DVD releases of the original Star Wars movies

I think Uncle George is keeping those deleted scenes locked up for now. In a few more years he'll reinsert them into the original film with added digital effects and call it the "Special Edition".

I can hardly wait!
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:16 AM   #32
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No, he will call it "Ultimate Edition".
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:51 AM   #33
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No, he will call it "Ultimate Edition".

Heh, very true
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:38 PM   #34
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but there's always the possibility that any deleted scenes no longer exist. Nobody thought of keeping them around for DVD releases back in the '80s.

For example: the special edition of Legend has a partially reconstructed deleted scene. Someone found the audio, but all they could do for picture was some production stills and storyboards, because nobody thought to save the film. It would have been hilarious, too. The Gump makes Tom Cruise's character do an enchanted fairy dance (meaning he can't stop) as punishment for letting the princess touch a unicorn.

I would love to see deleted scenes from Indiana Jones or the original Star Wars, though.


(If you weren't into unicorns, Tom Cruise, or fantasy in the '80s, don't feel too bad about missing Legend. Unless you want to see Tim Curry as the evil demonic Darkness, or you have to see every movie directed by Ridley Scott.)
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:05 PM   #35
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All these scenes were in the comcis and/or novels of the films, but not in the films themselves. Were they deleted scenes, I wonder? Here is what I recall...
1. Temple of Doom - Shorty sees guard awaken from Black Sleep:
When he is brought to the mines after being captured, Short Round sees a guard burn his leg and awaken from the Black Sleep of Kali. He is dragged off by other guards, and this reveals how Short Round learns it is pain that can awaken someone from Kali's spell. Which is why he burns Indy, way later on.
2. Temple of Doom - Willy gets captured by Chatter Lal:
Willy Scott and Short Round go back through the cave as Indy is going to try and get the Shankara Stones. Willy makes her way back to her room in the palace and runs into Chatter Lal, whom she tells how she just saw some guy get boiled in lava while she is complaining. Chatter Lal then says to her: "Yes, Miss Scott... we did!" and he takes her prisoner. Short Round is captured by Thugee guards at this point, and Indy gets captured shortly after this occurs.
3. Raiders - Indy clings to the periscope on the U-Boat:
Indy was clinging to the periscope of the Nazi U-Boat while it was on it's way to the island. It never submerged, which explained how Indy survived the trip.
4. Raiders - Marion kisses Indy at the bar:
Indy is about to leave the bar and returns. Marion says to him: "I still don't know if I can trust you. You said you'd come back last time." Indy says: "And so, I have." to which she replies: "Yeah. Come Here." So, he complains at her tone, saying: "Bossy, aren't you?" and she says: "That's right. Give me a kiss. It's time I started calling the shots in this relationship." She kisses Indy, then tells him: "Leave the money here.", at which point Indy walks out of the bar.
5. Raiders - Marion explains Abner's death:
When Indy initially asks her about Abner, Marion explains that he was killed in an avalanche when a snowstorm hit. Indy is very shocked to hear this detail.
6. Raiders - The Imam explains the perils of the Ark:
When he is examining the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra, the Imam explains to Indy and Sallah that they must never touch the Ark directly nor look upon it's contents, for to do so is death. This is how Indy knows to keep his eyes shut at the end... and, why he and Sallah use the poles to lift the Ark in the Well.
When Sallah first sees the Ark, he reaches out to touch it. Indy has to stop him before he does, and he mentions the Imam's warning to not ever touch it.
7. Last Crusade - Donovan's men kidnap Indy:
Indy is walking outside the college. Donovan's men pull up in the car and tell him to come with them. They pull out a gun, forcing Indy to come along.
8. Last Crusade - Sallah smacks a camel:
While Marcus and Sallah are trying to get away at the train station, Sallah smacks a camel, causing it to spit on the Nazis. Sallah then fights the Nazis.
9. Last Crusade - Indy punches a guard:
After Hitler autographs the Grail Diary, Indy has to punch a guard who shows up and questions what he is doing there. Indy then steals the guard's uniform.
10. Last Crusade - Death of the Flying Ace:
The World War I Flying Ace who is trying to impress people on the Zeppelin is, along with some Gestapo agents, killed when they try to get another of the planes flying to try and catch Indy and his father when they escape on the plane. The drunken Flying Ace accidentally causes his own plane to crash.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos
All these scenes were in the comcis and/or novels of the films, but not in the films themselves. Were they deleted scenes, I wonder? Here is what I recall...
1. Temple of Doom - Shorty sees guard awaken from Black Sleep:
When he is brought to the mines after being captured, Short Round sees a guard burn his leg and awaken from the Black Sleep of Kali. He is dragged off by other guards, and this reveals how Short Round learns it is pain that can awaken someone from Kali's spell. Which is why he burns Indy, way later on.
2. Temple of Doom - Willy gets captured by Chatter Lal:
Willy Scott and Short Round go back through the cave as Indy is going to try and get the Shankara Stones. Willy makes her way back to her room in the palace and runs into Chatter Lal, whom she tells how she just saw some guy get boiled in lava while she is complaining. Chatter Lal then says to her: "Yes, Miss Scott... we did!" and he takes her prisoner. Short Round is captured by Thugee guards at this point, and Indy gets captured shortly after this occurs.
3. Raiders - Indy clings to the periscope on the U-Boat:
Indy was clinging to the periscope of the Nazi U-Boat while it was on it's way to the island. It never submerged, which explained how Indy survived the trip.
4. Raiders - Marion kisses Indy at the bar:
Indy is about to leave the bar and returns. Marion says to him: "I still don't know if I can trust you. You said you'd come back last time." Indy says: "And so, I have." to which she replies: "Yeah. Come Here." So, he complains at her tone, saying: "Bossy, aren't you?" and she says: "That's right. Give me a kiss. It's time I started calling the shots in this relationship." She kisses Indy, then tells him: "Leave the money here.", at which point Indy walks out of the bar.
5. Raiders - Marion explains Abner's death:
When Indy initially asks her about Abner, Marion explains that he was killed in an avalanche when a snowstorm hit. Indy is very shocked to hear this detail.
6. Raiders - The Imam explains the perils of the Ark:
When he is examining the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra, the Imam explains to Indy and Sallah that they must never touch the Ark directly nor look upon it's contents, for to do so is death. This is how Indy knows to keep his eyes shut at the end... and, why he and Sallah use the poles to lift the Ark in the Well.
When Sallah first sees the Ark, he reaches out to touch it. Indy has to stop him before he does, and he mentions the Imam's warning to not ever touch it.
7. Last Crusade - Donovan's men kidnap Indy:
Indy is walking outside the college. Donovan's men pull up in the car and tell him to come with them. They pull out a gun, forcing Indy to come along.
8. Last Crusade - Sallah smacks a camel:
While Marcus and Sallah are trying to get away at the train station, Sallah smacks a camel, causing it to spit on the Nazis. Sallah then fights the Nazis.
9. Last Crusade - Indy punches a guard:
After Hitler autographs the Grail Diary, Indy has to punch a guard who shows up and questions what he is doing there. Indy then steals the guard's uniform.
10. Last Crusade - Death of the Flying Ace:
The World War I Flying Ace who is trying to impress people on the Zeppelin is, along with some Gestapo agents, killed when they try to get another of the planes flying to try and catch Indy and his father when they escape on the plane. The drunken Flying Ace accidentally causes his own plane to crash.

So many of those scenes, though relatively small, would have enhanced the Indy films. ie: Short Round learning how to awaken Indy from the Black Sleep and Indy knowing not to look upon the contents of the Arc. Less then a minute worth of footage for each would have really tied together a few plot holes that needed a bit more explanation. IMHO.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #37
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It's funny how Lucasfilm keeps these under lock and key while they have so many of the prequel trilogy's cut scenes.

I always wanted to see the part of the Marshall College chase where they end up on the football field. I have no idea if this was ever filmed, but it would be cool to see.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:09 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by NoCamels
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but there's always the possibility that any deleted scenes no longer exist. Nobody thought of keeping them around for DVD releases back in the '80s.
I can't help but wonder if this is true. It would seem a definite possibility that the footage that ended up on the cutting room floor was simply disposed of. That said, being one who loves to speculate about some aspects of Indy's background, I'd love to see any lost scenes that happened to be preserved, even though it would mean shelling out more cash to Uncle George and Company.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dewy9
I always wanted to see the part of the Marshall College chase where they end up on the football field. I have no idea if this was ever filmed, but it would be cool to see.

I think I read somewhere that this segment was dropped before it was filmed, but I can't be sure.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:24 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by NoCamels
(If you weren't into unicorns, Tom Cruise, or fantasy in the '80s, don't feel too bad about missing Legend. Unless you want to see Tim Curry as the evil demonic Darkness, or you have to see every movie directed by Ridley Scott.)

Legend was OK, but no masterpiece. I did buy the ultimate edition, and it was nice to see the director's cut with the Goldsmith score, which I much prefer over the awful soundtrack on the US theatrical cut. By far the best thing about Legend is Tim Curry's awesome make up and his great performance.


As for deleted scenes from the Indy trilogy, yes, as previously mentioned, certain footage was shot, but excised from the final cuts.
Whether this footage survives in any salvagable form remains to be seen.
But I'm fairly hopeful that it will be restored and included in some future release as bonus material.

It's true that Spielberg isn't really a fan of including cut footage, but still he does often sanction deleted scenes for home video release... look at the first DVD edition of CE3K or the two DVD editions of Jaws, for instance.

The first Indy trilogy DVD boxset followed the same format as the first DVD boxset of the original SW Trilogy, ie: no deleted scenes.
I was also disappointed that the vintage "making of" docs weren't included.

(I'm also hopeful that a future SW set will one day feature deleted scenes, too. But for those that can't wait for that day, check out the "Behind The Magic" CDROM, or just hit YouTube.)
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:39 AM   #41
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I'm pretty sure they would have hung onto the deleted scenes for the Indy films. After all, there are deleted scenes on both the Jaws and Close Encounters of the Third Kind DVDs, so if somebody had the sense to hang onto them, I think it's quite likely the same would be true of the Indy films. It would be nice to see them one day, especially the stuff from Temple of Doom, as they sound rather interesting. Does anybody know of any scenes missing from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:22 PM   #42
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Does anybody know of any scenes missing from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?

In another thread, James did a good job of compiling every scene that was in the comics/novelizations that weren't on screen. Some of these, like a prologue with Orellana, were entirely fabricated for the purposes of the novel and were never part of the script. Others were scripted and never shot, and finally others were shot and cut. As with the original trilogy, it's likely that Indy4 has no full deleted scenes so much as little extensions and bits and bobs that were removed. Here are a few I remember off-hand.

1) In the final film, after Spalko puts the sword to Indy's neck and commands him to find the crate, we cut to Indy leading them to the crate. Originally there was a bit where Indy offers some resistance, and Spalko responds by having her soldiers bring Mac outside and threatening to crush his head under one of the jeeps until Indy relents. This sequence was definitely shot as proved by production stills. There's this one (and in one of the early behind-the-scenes videos released on the official site, you can actually see for a very brief second the filming of Indy's reaction), as well as another production still that I've only seen as part of a magazine scan where you can actually see Ray Winstone being forced under the wheels.

2) When Indy whips the gun away from the Russian soldier's hands at the beginning of the warehouse setpiece, there was a tiny bit removed: when Indy pulled the whip, it pulled the trigger on the gun causing the Russian to inadvertently shoot another Russian soldier (the one who Indy punched out), and then Indy finally pulls the gun out of his hands and towards him. The gag can be seen in the pre-viz on the DVD bonus features, and in TheRaider.net's podcast interview with the stunt guy involved, he discusses the stunt being performed on set, so it was almost certainly filmed. (I say "almost certainly" because the soldier's dead body cannot be spotted in the final film, even in the wide shots in which you would think it'd have to be visible. Of course, this could be coincidental or a case of digital airbushing to eliminate a plothole. You have to think, for example, that the body of the unconscious guy outside the Well of Souls in Raiders might have been removed in post if the movie were made twenty years later.)

3) There is dialogue between Stanforth and Indy at Indy's house that was deleted, where the two further discuss age and whether anyone will remember them after their death. (My understanding is that there is more proof of its existence than the text adaptations.) Someone certainly remembers the exact line even if I don't. (The deleted portion was likely between "We seem to have reached the age where life stops giving us things and starts taking them away" and when Stanforth decides to have "Just another half glass.")

4) I have no proof of this beyond my own observation, but it seems to me that dialog was cut in the diner scene between Indy and Mutt. There's a part where Mutt says "Well laugh if you want," and I suspect that something before that was cut, because Ford isn't laughing. Now granted, there can be a lot of explanations for this that don't mean deleted footage, but it's just a hunch on my part.

5) During the campus chase, Mutt and Indy were at some point supposed to interrupt the middle of a football game. There's reason to believe that Spielberg gave up on this idea while production was at Yale and that it was never filmed.

6) There was apparently some footage from the part with the cemetery warriors that got cut which involved Indy using his whip against one of them (evidenced by a production still and even the filming/practicing of the stunt on the DVD bonus features). Then there's this much discussed image.

7) When Mutt and Indy find the skull in the crypt, at the very end of the scene the floor was supposed to give way, and Mutt was going to fall through and be hanging on for dear life over the Nazca lines. Indy uses the skeleton of Orellana to pull him back up. It's unknown if this was filmed or not, but concept art proves that it was more than just something added for the novel.

8) Similar to the diner scene, I believe some dialogue between Indy and Mac in the tent was edited out for length reasons. The cut that appears wonky to me is the one between "You're not looking at the big picture here!" and "Eventually they're going to let me out of this chair, comrade." Again, weird feeling cuts are a part of every movie and do not necessarily mean there was deleted footage, but that is my suspicion.

9) At least barb between Indy and Marion when they reunite is cut. The exchange, which is actually from the Darabont draft, is when Indy says, "Why are you so mad at me?" and Marion responds "How much time ya got?" You can see this in the DVD documentary. It occurs right before Spalko interrupts them.

10) There's a moment in the novelizations between Mac and Spalko at the start of the jungle chase, when Spalko threatens Mac and displays her psychic powers. There's no way for us to know whether it was in the movie's script or invented only for the books, but most agree it was a good exchange.

11) Similar to the above, when Indy and friends are in the amphibious vehicle going down the river, Mutt gets attacked by a piranha in the books. Was it filmed or ever intended to be filmed? Who knows.

12) At the very beginning of the waterfall sequence in the final film, pay attention to Indy and Mac on the left when Ox sits up and says "three times it drops." Indy is mouthing something to Mac silently, as though we're seeing the tail end of a cut conversation. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was originally a bit where the characters talked to each other between the time the vehicle landed in the water and when the waterfalls suddenly appeared. This was probably an editing decision to keep the pace up. (Just as an aside, there are some good exchanges between Mac and the others peppered in this area in the text versions, such as him congratulating Mutt on his swordfighting skills which clashes with Indy, now the responsible parent. Again, I absolutely no proof this was in Koepp's script, but you have to think little character moments like this were on the page, and that they were mostly what was cut.)

I'm sure there were more, but, I've written enough. I'd like to think that there was a deleted scene explaining how the hell Indy, Marion, Mutt, Mac and Oxley somehow got through waterfall that led them to Akator, but considering the type of movie this is, I imagine not. Oh, and there's probably reason to believe that there were once a few lines about Akator that talked about the city's water/electric system, and there was probably more emphasis on the fact that it was a giant underground city, whereas in the final film it really just seems like there's those two temples. Akator was conceptualized as a huge place.

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Old 12-22-2008, 03:58 PM   #43
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By the way, the previous deleted scenes thread can be found here.
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:38 AM   #44
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Most of the time, deleted scenes from films are merely extended scenes, which is kind of ho-hum. I've followed Indy movies for a long time, and I don't recall hearing about many of them, if any. Whereas Star Trek films I know have 2 or 3 actual short scenes deleted. Perhaps its simply a nod to Steven and George that they've made their later cuts, and did not have to remove anything? Plus, since Lucas Films has controlled both Indy and Star Wars movies entirely since Raiders, they were not forced by the studio to cut. Lucas's cuts on the original Star Wars (I have the Behind the Magic disc) were nothing to write home about. The major ones were a Luke/Biggs chat on Tattooine and the Jabba/Han stroll through the hanger, which was finished with CGI for the SE. Time and money forced those cuts from Lucas. Those have not been an issue for his films since. You could probably say the same for Spielberg, who directs under his own studio as well.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:01 PM   #45
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Most of the time, deleted scenes from films are merely extended scenes, which is kind of ho-hum. I've followed Indy movies for a long time, and I don't recall hearing about many of them, if any. Whereas Star Trek films I know have 2 or 3 actual short scenes deleted. Perhaps its simply a nod to Steven and George that they've made their later cuts, and did not have to remove anything? Plus, since Lucas Films has controlled both Indy and Star Wars movies entirely since Raiders, they were not forced by the studio to cut. Lucas's cuts on the original Star Wars (I have the Behind the Magic disc) were nothing to write home about. The major ones were a Luke/Biggs chat on Tattooine and the Jabba/Han stroll through the hanger, which was finished with CGI for the SE. Time and money forced those cuts from Lucas. Those have not been an issue for his films since. You could probably say the same for Spielberg, who directs under his own studio as well.

There's a few major ones. The near-execution of Sallah is probably the biggest from Raiders. Temple's got a major scene in which Indy, while possessed, makes his way back to the Palace and freaks Willie out; there's also some important missing dialogue at the banquet and a scene where Shorty figures out pain releases you from being possessed. There's some stuff on the zeppelin in Last Crusade; that's probably the most minor cut. And in Crystal Skull, of the stuff that Udvarnoky pointed out, I'd say that some of the cuts involving Mac throughout the jungle sequence (especially the one with Spalko) and the cut line in the scene with Broadbent took away a lot of the texture that could and should have been there.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:33 PM   #46
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It should be said though, that Indiana Jones movies have a tradition of being lean and mean. These are, after all, escapist summer movies that are meant to be high on action and low on everything else. (Even though modern summer blockbusters no longer care about runtime restraint, Spielberg evidently still does.) I'm sure these movies have had lots of things cut out or condensed from the script (in many cases probably prior to shooting, simply due to Spielberg's inclination toward heavy planning), and you will inevitably lose good footage for the sake of the final product's brevity. Scenes aren't always deleted because they're bad or don't work, but simply for pacing and time issues. A famous example is the heavy condensing, if not near removal, of the Indy/Marion reunion dialogue at the Raven in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Kasdan was reportedly very frustrated that the scene, which was meant to be very emotional and which he described as one of the best things he ever wrote, was left on the cutting room floor. These movies do have some solid character moments peppered throughout, but overall Spielberg and Lucas have to focus on keeping these pictures moving, and will sacrifice what they have to to make that happen. Note that Last Crusade is the only Indiana Jones movie that breaches the 2 hour mark, and I doubt it's by much.

I agree that some, or a lot, of the evident omissions to Indy4 may have resulted in a slightly better film, but if a movie doesn't work it's gonna be for problems far more fundamental than a few minutes worth of trims, the restoration of which isn't somehow going to save it. Like any Indy fan I'd love to see the deleted scenes for the movies out of personal interest, and I hope we get to someday.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:04 AM   #47
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I would have loved to see more Indy use the whip in Skull, especially in the Cemetery. That had the potential to be an exciting sequence in the movie...I could have been like the Streets of Cairo scene in Raiders. That's why I think Mutt is in shock that this old teacher can kick some ass. I think that scene (if it exists) should have been left in the movie.

I also would love to see the original fight between the Cairo Swordsman and Indy...it was stated that it was filmed, so just to see a rough cut of it would be cool.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
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I also would love to see the original fight between the Cairo Swordsman and Indy...it was stated that it was filmed, so just to see a rough cut of it would be cool.


13 seconds into the clip.



Enjoy!
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:54 AM   #49
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Ah very cool thanks...that would have been an exciting scene, but then again I'm glad that the classic shot scene is still there...that helped put a nice edge to Indy's character.

Thanks for posting that. I always wanted to check it out.
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:56 PM   #50
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By the way regarding my rough list of deleted scenes, I was able to confirm 4) and 8) when I thumbed through the novelization during my last visit to the bookstore. There were in fact a few deleted lines in those cuts.

Also, good images here.

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