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Old 05-02-2012, 08:34 PM   #1
Moedred
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Indiana Jones vs. other franchises

It was a little disconcerting when Lucas said "chances are that [Indiana Jones 5] will be not well accepted much more than it will be well accepted, so there's not a lot of impetus to do it." Most franchises have a low threshold for acceptance: if things go sour, given time, fans will accept a new cast (Star Trek), new character (Bourne), new director (Pirates), or the exact same story over again (Spider-Man). Some franchises are allowed mulligans (Bond) or the chance to stumble towards the final conflict fans were promised (Star Wars).

http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises
Try these sortable tables. Find a franchise with a smaller relative drop in quality than Indy, if you can. Toy Story is perhaps the only better open-ended large franchise, while Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter followed their established arcs smoothly. Final Destination bucked the trend and closed (?) on a critical high note, unheard of for a horror franchise, but it's nowhere near the same league.

Most who complain and protest are probably just being protective of Indy and their youthful free associations. Some of us like how the franchise, like the character, is unfairly pitted against seemingly insurmountable odds.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:41 PM   #2
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This article looks at comparable franchises, though isn't particularly happy with Indy IV.

As I said in another thread here yesterday, it surprises me that Lucas hasn't been able to shake the criticisms of Indy IV, despite the fact that it did pretty well.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #3
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Excellent article Toht, featuring the average ratings of the weakest installments of the 10 most profitable franchises as of 2010 (Indy and Lord of the Rings have since been displaced by Toy Story, Avengers, Transformers, Twilight, Star Trek and X-Men):
Quote:
Lord Of The Rings (92%)
Indiana Jones (71%)
Potter (71%)
Spider-Man (61%)
Bond (Die Another Day, 57.5%)
Star Wars (57%)
Shrek (49.5%)
Pirates Of The Caribbean (47.5%)
Jurassic Park (45.5%)
Batman (19.5%)
Shortly after this article was written, however, came Harry Potter 7 part 1, "the one in the tent," which despite the promised high body count concluded with a funeral for a mole rat. Hopefully "Katniss Everdeen and the Hunger Games: Mockingjay - part 1 of 2 in IMAX 3D" avoids this fate. Nevertheless the half-a-film was accepted by fans demanding faithful adaptations ever since the nearly 3-hour Chris Columbus installments.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:49 PM   #4
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Updated the list. Top 20 movie franchises based on North America unadjusted receipts, and their lowest rated installments according to Rotten Tomatoes averages of all critics. (Not sure if Hulk 1 is part of the Avengers franchise so I included Hulk 2.)

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Avengers (67%, 2008) (62%, 2003)
Spider-Man (63%, 2007)
Star Wars (57%, 1999)
Mission: Impossible (57%, 2000)
Jurassic Park (50%, 2001)
Shrek (41%, 2007)
James Bond (39%, 1985)
X-Men (37%, 2009)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Pirates of the Caribbean (34%, 2011)
Fast and the Furious (27%, 2009)
Twilight (26%, 2011)
Star Trek (21%, 1989)
Transformers (20%, 2009)
Batman (13%, 1997)
Fockers (10%, 2010)

Last edited by Moedred : 05-10-2012 at 01:11 AM. Reason: proofreading
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:11 PM   #5
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I think the lack of "impetus" is more on the part of George Lucas than any other party, really. George got a real one-two punch when it's come to public acceptance of his last two films, whether it be real (Red Tails), or internet hype, inflated by fanboy blowhards (KOTCS). From the sources cited in this thread, it would seem as though Indy is as viable as ever, or at least more of a safe bet than most. Spielberg has said that he would make time for Indy 5, and Ford has said over and over again that he would do it. Lucas is feeling sorry for himself, and that's all. His allusion to no one being interested in doing it is pure crap, a smokescreen. He's gone from making films that were almost universally loved and accepted, to having people outright despise him and/because of his films. I think he's having a hard time with it. He did "retire" after all.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:31 PM   #6
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Pitting Indy against 25 science fiction action adventure franchises outside the top 20, another series with better quality control rises above, Mad Max. But as with Lord of the Rings and Jason Bourne, that could all change soon.

Bourne (81%, 2004)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Back to the Future (64%, 1989)
El Mariachi (62%, 1995)
Jack Ryan (59%, 2002)
Lethal Weapon (54%, 1998)
Dirty Harry (54%, 1988)
Die Hard (50%, 1995)
Narnia (49%, 2010)
Men in Black (39%, 2002)
Alien (39%, 1992)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Transporter (36%, 2008)
Terminator (33%, 2009)
Rambo (29%, 1985)
Blade (26%, 2004)
Predator (23%, 1990)
Resident Evil (21%, 2004)
Underworld (16%, 2006)
Mummy (13%, 2008)
Superman (10%, 1987)
Beverly Hills Cop (10%, 1994)
Robocop (4%, 1992)
Jaws (0%, 1987)
Highlander (0%, 1991)
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #7
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Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:09 AM   #8
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Judging by Crystal Skull, I'd say Lucas wants us to see Indy more along the lines of the Alvin & The Chipmonks franchise.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toht's Arm
Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...

If we were to point out which entry started the down-cline of those films I would point at 2. That can be argued I guess but 3 was definitely a great white turd. And the last one that you speak of was a TV movie.

The point is, was there even a need to make another Jaws after the first?

The answer is no. Unless the need is to make a follow up to the film that created the "blockbuster" and earned the studio tons of cash in which case the studio answered "yes".
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo
If we were to point out which entry started the down-cline of those films I would point at 2. That can be argued I guess but 3 was definitely a great white turd. And the last one that you speak of was a TV movie.

The point is, was there even a need to make another Jaws after the first?

The answer is no. Unless the need is to make a follow up to the film that created the "blockbuster" and earned the studio tons of cash in which case the studio answered "yes".

There was no need to make any other ones, I agree. Jaws 2 isn't awful, Jaws 3(D) is pretty dire but The Revenge seems to be understood to be one of the worst films ever made. Also, as far as I can tell, it was released theatrically, so I'm not sure about the TV movie aspect of which you speak...
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replican't
Judging by Crystal Skull, I'd say Lucas wants us to see Indy more along the lines of the Alvin & The Chipmonks franchise.
This made me laugh but it's true. In the making of KOTCS feature on the DVD when Lucas said he wanted to call the movie "Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men" I immediatly prayed they never do a 5th movie. I can forgive a lot of KOTCS but sucer men? No
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:16 AM   #12
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Hey hey hey, look who got number 1!

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...l-time/258238/
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:02 AM   #13
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The commenters are right that Alien vs. Predator movies should be separate. I also ignored Ironman because it's only 2 installments, and part of Avengers. They sure seem desperate to separate Nolan's Batman films from the others! But then I wonder if Oz the Great and Powerful, Wizard of Oz, and Return to Oz is a trilogy...
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #14
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Bourne seems to be departing the leader board of least worst franchise installments.
And then there were five...

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:46 PM   #15
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All the rest from the Atlantic lists, which are adjusted for inflation.

Godfather (68%, 1990)
Paranormal Activity (59%, 2010)
Bourne (56%, 2012)
Ocean's Eleven (56%, 2004)
Madagascar (55%, 2005)
Naked Gun (53%, 1994)
Dirty Harry (52%, 1988)
Austin Powers (51%, 1999)
Jackass (49%, 2002)
American Pie (43%, 2012)
Ice Age (39%, 2012)
Planet of the Apes (38%, 1973)
Scream (36%, 2000)
Rocky (27%, 1990)
Home Alone (24%, 1992)
Spy Kids (23%, 2011)
Rush Hour (19%, 2007)
Nightmare on Elm Street (15%, 2010)
Hannibal Lecter (15%, 2007)
Santa Clause (15%, 2006)
Scary Movie (15%, 2001)
Vacation (13%, 1997)
Exorcist (11%, 2004)
Crocodile Dundee (11%, 2001)
Friday the 13th (10%, 1989)
Karate Kid (5%, 1994)
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toht's Arm
Haha, great list. I love how awful sequels can apparently ruin an entire franchise - Jaws: The Revenge, i'm looking at you...

Exactly!

I saw an article about Toy Story 4 where people were getting all ranty as they felt 3 was the perfect end. I thought it was, as was 1 and 2, they could have ended at 1. But I am happy to see the return of a franchise I love and the same applies if Indy ever makes a comeback.

The reboots, sequels, prequels or whatever can be absolute trash, but that does not diminish the original classics.

Jaws, Highlander, Predator, Star Wars, Raiders, Batman and Robocop are a few of my favourite films....despite the various awful films, tv series that followed, my affection for the originals is in tact.

Indy 4 was weak in comparrison and I doubt Indy 5 will be made or buck the "trend"if it is, but so what?

Raiders will always be a favourite of mine.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:29 PM   #17
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Forgot Clint Eastwood's Man With No Name trilogy... anything else?

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Fistful of Dollars (94%, 1965)
Apu (93%, 1956)
Lord Of The Rings (92%, 2001)
Three Colors (90%, 1994)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)

Last edited by Moedred : 09-20-2012 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Three Colors and Apu included.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:00 PM   #18
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Here's the compiled list of worst instalments, including some found on this Empire list of trilogies. Was trying to get to 100 but will wait for Iron Man, Hangover and Riddick to become trilogies later this year.

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Fistful of Dollars (94%, 1965)
Apu (93%, 1956)
Three Colors (90%, 1994)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Evil Dead (70%, 1993)
Godfather (68%, 1990)
Avengers (67%, 2008) (62%, 2003)
Lord of the Rings (65%, 2012)
Back to the Future (64%, 1989)
Spider-Man (63%, 2007)
Muppets (63%, 1999)
El Mariachi (62%, 1995)
Jack Ryan (59%, 2002)
Star Wars (57%, 1999)
Mission: Impossible (57%, 2000)
Bourne (56%, 2012)
Ocean's Eleven (56%, 2004)
Madagascar (55%, 2005)
Dirty Harry (54%, 1988)
Lethal Weapon (54%, 1998)
View Askewniverse (54%, 1995, 2001)
Millennium Series (54%, 2009)
Naked Gun (53%, 1994)
Dirty Harry (52%, 1988)
Oz (52%, 1985)
Austin Powers (51%, 1999)
Jurassic Park (50%, 2001)
Narnia (49%, 2010)
Jackass (49%, 2002)
American Pie (43%, 2012)
Shrek (41%, 2007)
James Bond (39%, 1985)
Men in Black (39%, 2002)
Alien (39%, 1992)
Planet of the Apes (38%, 1973)
Ice Age (37%, 2012)
X-Men (37%, 2009)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Transporter (36%, 2008)
Scream (36%, 2000)
Pirates of the Caribbean (34%, 2011)
Terminator (33%, 2009)
Night of the Living Dead (30%, 2010)
Rambo (29%, 1985)
Final Destination (29%, 2009)
Fast and Furious (27%, 2009)
Rocky (27%, 1990)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (27%, 1993)
Blade (26%, 2004)
Twilight (26%, 2011)
Paranormal Activity (26%, 2012)
Home Alone (24%, 1992)
Predator (23%, 1990)
Spy Kids (23%, 2011)
Child’s Play (23%, 1991%)
Star Trek (21%, 1989)
Resident Evil (21%, 2004)
Transformers (20%, 2009)
Rush Hour (19%, 2007)
Step Up (19%, 2006)
Die Hard (17%, 2013)
Underworld (16%, 2006)
Nightmare on Elm Street (15%, 2010)
Hannibal Lecter (15%, 2007)
Santa Clause (15%, 2006)
Scary Movie (15%, 2001)
Mummy (13%, 2008)
Vacation (13%, 1997)
Batman (12%, 1997)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (12%, 2006)
Mighty Ducks (12%, 1992)
Exorcist (11%, 2004)
Crocodile Dundee (11%, 2001)
Porky’s (11%, 1983)
Superman (10%, 1987)
Fockers (10%, 2010)
Beverly Hills Cop (10%, 1994)
Friday the 13th (10%, 1989)
Saw (10%, 2010)
Halloween (7%, 1995)
Piranha (7%, 1982)
Karate Kid (5%, 1994)
Robocop (4%, 1992)
Jaws (0%, 1987)
Highlander (0%, 1991)
Amityville (0%, 1983)
Death Wish (0%, 1994)
Police Academy (0%, 1987, 1988, 1989)
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Police Academy (0%, 1987, 1988, 1989)


Nooooooooooooooooo!

Last edited by Moedred : 04-18-2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: just shortening my quote
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:39 AM   #20
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According to scientists, Krystal Scull was 1896% worser than Raiders and as a stand alone film, about 2% more watchable than Mission To Moscow. Which had 25% more realistic Russian accents in it, but caused 987% less trauma to adult childhood memories.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replican't
According to scientists, Krystal Scull was 1896% worser than Raiders and as a stand alone film, about 2% more watchable than Mission To Moscow. Which had 25% more realistic Russian accents in it, but caused 987% less trauma to adult childhood memories.

"Mommy, Gweorge Rucas rwaped my childhwood! Wahhh!"
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #22
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Join the club kid.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #23
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The rest of the bottom of the barrel. Jackie Chan and Jet Li had some surprisingly solid franchises. Many others escaped scrutiny with direct-to-video second sequels.

Police Story (63%, 2004)
Once Upon a Time in China (63%, 1993)
Thin Man (60%, 1944)
Frankenstein – Universal (60%, 1944)
Sinbad – Harryhausen (57%, 1973)
Harold & Kumar (53%, 2008)
Dracula – Universal (50%, 1936)
Three Mothers (49%, 2007)
Diary of a Wimpy Kid (47%, 2011)
Shaft (43%, 1973)
Witch Mountain (43%, 2009)
Mummy – Universal (40%, 1942)
Rugrats (40%, 2003)
Herbie (40%, 1980)
Dark Shadows (38%, 2012)
Barbershop (38%, 2005)
Psycho (37%, 1998)
Free Willy (36%, 1995)
Creature – Universal (33%, 1955)
Benji (33%, 2004)
Oh, God! (29%, 1984)
Omen (27%, 2006)
Phantasm (25%, 1998)
Friday (20%, 2000)
Smokey and the Bandit (20%, 1980)
Airport (20%, 1979)
Hellraiser (18%, 1992)
Madea (15%, 2005)
Howling (14%, 1985)
Pokemon (14%, 1999, 2002)
Poltergeist (13%, 1988)
Cheech and Chong (13%, 1983)
Alvin and the Chipmunks (12%, 2011)
Alex Cross (12%, 2012)
Pink Panther (12%, 2009)
Cannonball Run (11%, 1984)
Universal Soldier (6%, 1999)
Big Momma (5%, 2011)
Major League (5%, 1994)
Look Who’s Talking (0%, 1993)
Hills Have Eyes (0%, 1985)
Bad News Bears (0%, 1978)
NeverEnding Story (0%, 1994)
Prom Night (0%, 1992)
Toxic Avenger (0%, 1989)
House Party (0%, 1994)
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:51 PM   #24
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Forgot one:

Honey I Shrunk (25%, 1996)

And some new lows:

Evil Dead (63%, 2013)
Scary Movie (5%, 2013)
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:18 PM   #25
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While still categorized with the Avengers franchise, Iron Man achieves franchise status for the purposes of this thread, and a place on the leaderboard, just below Indy. The updated complete list:

Toy Story (99%, 2010)
Fistful of Dollars (94%, 1965)
Apu (93%, 1956)
Three Colors (90%, 1994)
Mad Max (81%, 1985)
Harry Potter (78%, 2007)
Indiana Jones (77%, 2008)
Iron Man (73%, 2010)
Godfather (68%, 1990)
Avengers (67%, 2008) (62%, 2003)
Lord of the Rings (65%, 2012)
Back to the Future (64%, 1989)
Spider-Man (63%, 2007)
Muppets (63%, 1999)
Evil Dead (63%, 2013)
Police Story (63%, 2004)
Once Upon a Time in China (63%, 1993)
El Mariachi (62%, 1995)
Thin Man (60%, 1944)
Frankenstein – Universal (60%, 1944)
Jack Ryan (59%, 2002)
Star Wars (57%, 1999)
Mission: Impossible (57%, 2000)
Sinbad – Harryhausen (57%, 1973)
Bourne (56%, 2012)
Ocean's Eleven (56%, 2004)
Madagascar (55%, 2005)
Lethal Weapon (54%, 1998)
View Askewniverse (54%, 1995, 2001)
Millennium Series (54%, 2009)
Harold & Kumar (53%, 2008)
Naked Gun (53%, 1994)
Dirty Harry (52%, 1988)
Oz (52%, 1985)
Austin Powers (51%, 1999)
Jurassic Park (50%, 2001)
Dracula – Universal (50%, 1936)
Narnia (49%, 2010)
Jackass (49%, 2002)
Three Mothers (49%, 2007)
Diary of a Wimpy Kid (47%, 2011)
Shaft (43%, 1973)
Witch Mountain (43%, 2009)
American Pie (43%, 2012)
Shrek (41%, 2007)
Mummy – Universal (40%, 1942)
Rugrats (40%, 2003)
Herbie (40%, 1980)
James Bond (39%, 1985)
Men in Black (39%, 2002)
Alien (39%, 1992)
Planet of the Apes (38%, 1973)
Dark Shadows (38%, 2012)
Barbershop (38%, 2005)
Psycho (37%, 1998)
Ice Age (37%, 2012)
X-Men (37%, 2009)
Matrix (36%, 2003)
Transporter (36%, 2008)
Scream (36%, 2000)
Free Willy (36%, 1995)
Pirates of the Caribbean (34%, 2011)
Terminator (33%, 2009)
Creature – Universal (33%, 1955)
Benji (33%, 2004)
Night of the Living Dead (30%, 2010)
Rambo (29%, 1985)
Final Destination (29%, 2009)
Oh, God! (29%, 1984)
Fast and Furious (27%, 2009)
Rocky (27%, 1990)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (27%, 1993)
Omen (27%, 2006)
Blade (26%, 2004)
Twilight (26%, 2011)
Paranormal Activity (26%, 2012)
Clash of the Titans (26%, 2012)
Honey I Shrunk (25%, 1996)
Phantasm (25%, 1998)
Home Alone (24%, 1992)
Predator (23%, 1990)
Spy Kids (23%, 2011)
Child’s Play (23%, 1991%)
Star Trek (21%, 1989)
Resident Evil (21%, 2004)
Transformers (20%, 2009)
Friday (20%, 2000)
Smokey and the Bandit (20%, 1980)
Airport (20%, 1979)
Rush Hour (19%, 2007)
Step Up (19%, 2006)
Hellraiser (18%, 1992)
Die Hard (17%, 2013)
Underworld (16%, 2006)
Nightmare on Elm Street (15%, 2010)
Hannibal Lecter (15%, 2007)
Santa Clause (15%, 2006)
Madea (15%, 2005)
Howling (14%, 1985)
Pokemon (14%, 1999, 2002)
Mummy (13%, 2008)
Vacation (13%, 1997)
Poltergeist (13%, 1988)
Cheech and Chong (13%, 1983)
Alvin and the Chipmunks (12%, 2011)
Alex Cross (12%, 2012)
Pink Panther (12%, 2009)
Batman (12%, 1997)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (12%, 2006)
Mighty Ducks (12%, 1992)
Exorcist (11%, 2004)
Crocodile Dundee (11%, 2001)
Porky’s (11%, 1983)
Superman (10%, 1987)
Fockers (10%, 2010)
Beverly Hills Cop (10%, 1994)
Friday the 13th (10%, 1989)
Saw (10%, 2010)
Cannonball Run (11%, 1984)
Halloween (7%, 1995)
Piranha (7%, 1982)
Universal Soldier (6%, 1999)
Big Momma (5%, 2011)
Major League (5%, 1994)
Karate Kid (5%, 1994)
Scary Movie (5%, 2013)
Robocop (4%, 1992)
Jaws (0%, 1987)
Highlander (0%, 1991)
Amityville (0%, 1983)
Death Wish (0%, 1994)
Look Who’s Talking (0%, 1993)
Hills Have Eyes (0%, 1985)
Bad News Bears (0%, 1978)
NeverEnding Story (0%, 1994)
Prom Night (0%, 1992)
Toxic Avenger (0%, 1989)
House Party (0%, 1994)
Police Academy (0%, 1987, 1988, 1989)
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