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Old 01-19-2013, 10:21 PM   #1
scott434
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Why are people so hard on Indy IV?

Am I the only one who really liked Indy IV? I've read soooooo many complaints! People say it didn't make sense or too far fetched. How far fetched was the Arc and it's powers killing and melting people? How about T.O.D? Pulling beating hearts out of living people and stones that have power. And The Last Crusade where a knights Templer was on guard for hundeds of years? ALL of these movies were far fetched. It's called Fiction people! I was just so excited waiting all these years and FINALLY being able to see Indy back on the big screen! Really, the only part of Indy IV I didn't care for was Mutt swinging from the vines like a monkey. That scene shoulda never happened! I think too many people have "grown up" and become movie critics! I think they have lost the fantasy and imagination they had as a kid. If they would just sit back and enjoy the movie for what it is, they would have enjoyed it more. I'm longing for another one. Bring it on. I don't care what it's about. Make 5 more, the more the better! It lets me get lost into the Indiana Jones adventure for a couple of hours and brings back many great memories I had as a 10 year old child seeing Raiders of the lost Arc for the first time.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:42 PM   #2
Mickiana
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Well, I suppose some people are more easily pleased than are others.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:37 PM   #3
Montana Smith
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You could have tacked your post onto a number of other threads, such as:

Do you think the reaction to KOTCS was exaggerated?

Why is it "cool" to hate on KOTCS?

The Haters thread



Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
Am I the only one who really liked Indy IV?

Unfortunately you're not the only one.

As Micky wrote, "...some people are more easily pleased than are others."


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
Really, the only part of Indy IV I didn't care for was Mutt swinging from the vines like a monkey. That scene shoulda never happened!


Why not?

After all,

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
ALL of these movies were far fetched. It's called Fiction people!

As a 10 year old child seeing KOTCS for the first time you would probably have enjoyed watching Mutt do a Tarzan impression with a troop of performing monkeys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
I think too many people have "grown up" and become movie critics! I think they have lost the fantasy and imagination they had as a kid. If they would just sit back and enjoy the movie for what it is, they would have enjoyed it more.

Why have an atom bomb, a flying fridge, three waterfalls, a snake in a sandpit, a wannabe son, an annoying wife-to-be, a half-hearted double crossing friend, an under-employed and under-qualified villainess, a spaceship, and then leave out Mutt swinging from the vines with monkeys?


Some people are just so hard on Indy IV.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #4
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:32 AM   #5
replican't
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To quote the mighty Tom Waits:

Listen to the General, every goddamn word
How many ways can you polish up a turd?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:00 PM   #6
scott434
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Montana Smith, You have WAAAAAY too much time on your hands to disect my post like you did. You must not enjoy much movies that come out. I'm not being ugly, it just seems like you would be very hard to please. Maybe I'm just too easy to please? I just love all things Indy & glad we had at least 4. Even though the chances for a 5th are slim, I'm still ready to stand in line for my ticket.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:56 PM   #7
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"Why people are so hard on Indy IV?"

Because as a stand alone movie it totally sucked. Knowing it was part of the Indiana Jones movies makes it even worse than Plan 9 form Outer Space!
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:05 PM   #8
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
Montana Smith, You have WAAAAAY too much time on your hands to disect my post like you did.



The Raven is the place for deconstruction!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
You must not enjoy much movies that come out. I'm not being ugly, it just seems like you would be very hard to please.

I'm easily pleased by Indy #1, #2 and #3. But #4, after the Doom Town sequence (beginning with the moment the fridge landed) was a film full of facepalms. While the first three were parody, the last was a parody of the parody. One step too far. After the fridge there was no impetus, and little belief in some of the characters.

If the first three films were cartoons, they would be classic Tom and Jerry , and KOTCS would be Roger Ramjet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundshort
Because as a stand alone movie it totally sucked. Knowing it was part of the Indiana Jones movies makes it even worse than Plan 9 form Outer Space!

It was 19 years too late. An experiment that blew up the laboratory and created something completely different. It lacks the sense that anything within it really matters. The original trilogy, while being fairly wild, had an internal consistency. KOTCS is too reliant on sources no longer associated with the cliffhangers of the '30s and '40s. It's a product of The Atomic Kid, the unused fridge from Back To The Future, '50s kitsch, and the need to wow an audience with massive spectacle over human drama, which robs the film of any depth.

It does glide along on the surface much in the manner of Plan 9 From Outer Space. And when you feel no connection to many of the characters, and see that some of the actors don't quite know why they're there, it becomes a boring exercise to reach the end without hitting fast forward.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:40 PM   #9
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I don't watch movies and get in depth as much as others do I guess. I still liked it. I was just excited to see Harrison Ford wear the hat and hold the whip again. No matter how old he is!
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
I don't watch movies and get in depth as much as others do I guess. I still liked it. I was just excited to see Harrison Ford wear the hat and hold the whip again. No matter how old he is!

Well, Harrison was the best thing in KOTCS! He was still Indy, even though his adventure was more surreal. A Dantean trip to hell for the poor old chap.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
Am I the only one who really liked Indy IV? I've read soooooo many complaints!
Firstly, Scott, welcome to The Raven - where the whip-cracking never stops!

Secondly, some people liked the film so you're not alone. It's actually refreshing to see a new Raven member who enjoyed it rather than a negative naysayer joining up (or a new member who hasn't even seen Indy 4 yet).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
If the first three films were cartoons, they would be classic Tom and Jerry , and KOTCS would be Roger Ramjet.
Animation values aside, "Roger Ramjet" was great. Don't knock it, Smiffy! (Anyway, it was made by a different animation company and was a different genre of cartoon.) A better comparison with "Tom and Jerry" would be "Ruff and Reddy". A cat & dog cartoon that Hanna-Barbera made 17 years later with a cliffhanger format, not violent and has plenty of aliens & flying saucers!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
While the first three were parody, the last was a parody of the parody.
---
KOTCS is too reliant on sources no longer associated with the cliffhangers of the '30s and '40s. It's a product of The Atomic Kid, the unused fridge from Back To The Future, '50s kitsch,...
...and "Split Second".

While what you write here is true, for me, the non-association with cliffhangers isn't Indy 4's detracting factor because 'parody of the parody' began with "Crusade". Little of Indy 3 was rooted in the serials so it's no surprise that #4 wasn't either. The classic-cliffhanger-association is not a rule to make/break the movie.

---
To answer Scott's often repeated question: I think people are hard on "Skull" because they had overblown expectations. (It was actually better than I thought it would be!)
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:39 AM   #12
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I don't think it matters as much that it was nineteen years later. They just could have done something better with it than what we saw. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall and hear why (or how) they gave the nod to this installment.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:02 AM   #13
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Animation values aside, "Roger Ramjet" was great. Don't knock it, Smiffy! (Anyway, it was made by a different animation company and was a different genre of cartoon.) A better comparison with "Tom and Jerry" would be "Ruff and Reddy". A cat & dog cartoon that Hanna-Barbera made 17 years later with a cliffhanger format, not violent and has plenty of aliens & flying saucers!...

You da king o' the 'toons!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo

I knew there was another one, but it kept slipping off the edge of my brain!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
While what you write here is true, for me, the non-association with cliffhangers isn't Indy 4's detracting factor because 'parody of the parody' began with "Crusade". Little of Indy 3 was rooted in the serials so it's no surprise that #4 wasn't either. The classic-cliffhanger-association is not a rule to make/break the movie.

Dick Tracy and the boat squished between the ships?




Here's my review of Indy's surreal Dantean journey through the nine circles of Hell:



Captive in the boot of a car [VESTIBULE OF HELL].

Thrown unceremoniously to the ground [VIOLENCE].

Forced to do the bidding of a villainess whoís more bluster than competence. [GREED]

Discovering his friend is even more mercenary than himself. [TREACHERY]

Escaping only to walk into an atomic test site, then making off by means of a fridge. [FRAUD]

Mistaken for a Communist by his government, then forced by the alien skull to do its bidding. [ANGER]

Meeting the kooky woman who used to be Marion. [LUST]

Rescued by the upstart son from a sandpit by means of a snake. Discovering that his friend is doolally, and his other friend is barely a real person at all. A swing with the monkeys, a timely rubber tree and three waterfalls. [GLUTTONY]

The stubborn bachelor is finally shackled to the kooky woman and forced to defend himself against the ambitions of the upstart son. [HERESY]

The End. [LIMBO]
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:04 AM   #14
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I knew there was another one, but it kept slipping off the edge of my brain!
Eat more blueberries & eggs! (Seperately, of course.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Dick Tracy and the boat squished between the ships?
The boat chase is one of the "little" parts I was referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
Really, the only part of Indy IV I didn't care for was Mutt swinging from the vines like a monkey. That scene shoulda never happened!
How do you feel about the sandpit scene? To me, it's the worst part of the movie because it lasts so long! (Mutt's vine-swinging is a fleeting moment of only a few seconds.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
I think too many people have "grown up" and become movie critics! I think they have lost the fantasy and imagination they had as a kid.
You've just answered your own question, Scott.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:50 AM   #15
Montana Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Eat more blueberries & eggs! (Seperately, of course.)

That would be like green eggs and ham.




I am Sam

I am Sam
Sam I am

That Sam-I-am
That Sam-I-am!
I do not like
that Sam-I-am

Do you like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham

I do not like it,
Sam-I-am.
I do not like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.

Would you like it
Here or there?

I would not like it
here or there.
I would not like it
anywhere.
I do not like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it,
Sam-I-am

Would you like it
in a house?
Would you like it
with a mouse?

I do not like it
in a house.
I do not like it
with a mouse.
I do not like it
here or there.
I do not like it
anywhere.
I do not like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Would you watch it
in a box?
Would you watch it
with a fox?

Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I would not watch it here or there.
I would not watch it anywhere.
I would not watch Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Would you? Could you?
in a car?
Watch it! Watch it!
Here they are.

I would not ,
could not,
in a car

You may like it.
You will see.
You may like it
in a tree?
I would not in a tree.
I would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let me be.

I do not like it in a box.
I do not like it with a fox
I do not like it in a house
I do mot like it with a mouse
I do not like it here or there.
I do not like it anywhere.
I do not like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you
on a train?

Not on a train! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! Sam! Let me be!
I would not, could not, in a box.
I could not, would not, with a fox.
I will not watch it with a mouse
I will not watch it in a house.
I will not watch it here or there.
I will not watch it anywhere.
I do not like it, Sam-I-am.

Say!
In the dark?
Here in the dark!
Would you, could you, in the dark?

I would not, could not,
in the dark.

Would you, could you,
in the rain?

I would not, could not, in the rain.
Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
I do not like it, Sam, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a box.
Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
I will not watch it here or there.
I do not like it anywhere!

You do not like
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham?

I do not
like it,
Sam-I-am.

Could you, would you,
with a goat?

I would not,
could not.
with a goat!

Would you, could you,
on a boat?

I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not, with a goat.
I will not watch it in the rain.
I will not watch it on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I do not like it in a box.
I do not like it with a fox.
I will not watch it in a house.
I do not like it with a mouse.
I do not like it here or there.
I do not like it ANYWHERE!

I do not like
Kingdom of the
Crystal Ham!

I do not like it,
Sam-I-am.

You do not like it.
SO you say.
Try it! Try it!
And you may.
Try it and you may I say.

Sam!
If you will let me be,
I already tried it.
You donít see.

Say!
I donít like Kingdom of the Crystal Ham!
I donít!! I donít like it, Sam-I-am!
And I wouldnít watch it in a boat!
And I wouldnít watch it with a goat...
And I wonít watch it in the rain.
Or in the dark. Or on a train.
Or in a car. Or in a tree.
It is so bad so bad you see!

So I wonít watch it in a box.
And I wonít watch it with a fox.
And I wonít watch it in a house.
And I wonít watch it with a mouse.
And I wonít watch it here and there.
Say! I wonít watch it ANYWHERE!

I do so dislike
Kingdom of the Crystal Ham!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Sam-I-am


(Dr. Seuss rocks! )
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #16
Indy's brother
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Shel Silverstein's "Where The Sidewalk Ends" could also be mined for inspiration:

There is a place where the franchise ends
and before the reboot begins,
and there the hair grows thin and white,
and there mushroom clouds burn crimson bright,
and there the fridge rests from his flight
to cool in the atomic wind.

Let us leave this place where Marion comes back,
and then births a Mutt to send.
Past sand pits and past Colonel Spalko,
we shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow
and watch where defeated moguls go
to the place where the franchise ends.

Yes we'll walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
and we'll go where inter-dimensional beings go,
for the fans, they weep, and the haters, they know,
the place where the franchise ends.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:53 AM   #17
Montana Smith
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Posts: 10,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy's brother
Shel Silverstein's "Where The Sidewalk Ends" could also be mined for inspiration:

There is a place where the franchise ends
and before the reboot begins,
and there the hair grows thin and white,
and there mushroom clouds burn crimson bright,
and there the fridge rests from his flight
to cool in the atomic wind.

Let us leave this place where Marion comes back,
and then births a Mutt to send.
Past sand pits and past Colonel Spalko,
we shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow
and watch where defeated moguls go
to the place where the franchise ends.

Yes we'll walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
and we'll go where inter-dimensional beings go,
for the fans, they weep, and the haters, they know,
the place where the franchise ends.


Indy's bro rocks, too!
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:36 PM   #18
Rocket Surgeon
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Quote:
Why people are so hard on Indy IV?

Probably because Lucas exploited a celebrated legacy for a payday.

There was a chance of redemption fromt the Star Wars drek with a film that could have been the polar opposite in terms of production...practical effects instead of CGI buffoonery.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:57 PM   #19
Dr. Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
How do you feel about the sandpit scene? To me, it's the worst part of the movie because it lasts so long!

Oddly enough the snake/sandpit scene doesn't bother me...

but this does...

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Old 01-23-2013, 03:26 PM   #20
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{insert 'gopher popping' joke here}
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:39 PM   #21
Vance
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"It worked for Caddyshack!"
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:03 PM   #22
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roundshort, take this capper to town. He just compared Caddyshack to KOTCS...
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:05 PM   #23
Dr. Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
...Take this capper to town. He just compared Caddyshack to KOTCS...

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Old 01-23-2013, 05:22 PM   #24
The Drifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott434
I don't watch movies and get in depth as much as others do I guess.

I'm about the same way. I'm on the fence about Kingdom, but I overall did enjoy it. I didn't go in with a critical eye like a lot of users here, nor do I look too much into it almost five years later. It is what it is.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:20 PM   #25
Brooke Logan
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I don't try to be hard on the movie, some of the scenes that others really hate don't bother me that much, but overall I didn't like the story, I thought the actors lacked chemistry together, and for me they ruined the character of Marion. I didn't think Mutt was a good fit for Indy's offspring either. That whole family of Indy, Marion and Mutt just didn't work for me and I'd have rather seen something different.

But for me the most telling thing that this movie isn't on a par with the others is that Parts 1, 2 and 3 are all still very watchable movies for me, but 4 just....isn't.....
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