"First review" and a lot of new pics!

The Dark Shape

New member
Darth Vile said:
It's funny, but a friend of mine was visting over the weekend and he brought his 10 year old son (Matt). Matt is absolutley Star Wars mad, so I took the oppertunity to ask him some questions e.g. who is your favourite character, what is your favourite Star Wars movie etc. As you would expect, the answers were all prequel based. And it's kids like Matt who will be celebrating the 30th anniversary of TPM and doing the convention circuits in years to come.

Ha, I have an eight-year-old cousin who's just obsessed with Star Wars, and it started with the Prequels. He really, really loves pretending to be Darth Vader. His favorite thing to act out? Anakin doing the Force choke on Padmé.

Okay, that last part is a little unsettling...
 

agentsands77

New member
No Ticket said:
I wish people would shut up about Phantom Menace being a horrible film, because it isn't.
Well, sure. It's just mediocre. The two films that follow commit greater crimes.

No Ticket said:
And the podrace was an AWESOME scene.
I've always thought that scene was mind-numbingly dull, but okay.

No Ticket said:
It also has the best lightsaber duel of any SW film ever.
Granted.

No Ticket said:
Anakin going Vader ya know? How can you REALLY mess THAT up... you can't.
Well, actually, Lucas showed you can mess that up. Shocking though it is.
 
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God'sRadio

New member
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! As Vader put it.

Which only revealed that Lucas a) doesn't watch movies and b) doesn't listen to people who do
 

jamiestarr

New member
"Also - I don't think KOTCS will polarize Indy fans.... and to be honest, I don't believe the prequels polarized Star Wars fans i.e. you'll find a new generation of fans will be brought in."

Exactly. Just wait, when the children who grew up on the prequels come into adulthood there will be a positive paradigm shift in how the prequels are regarded. Just as it happened with the original Trilogy.
 

agentsands77

New member
jamiestarr said:
Exactly. Just wait, when the children who grew up on the prequels come into adulthood there will be a positive paradigm shift in how the prequels are regarded.
I'm not so sure. The vehement hatred will vanish, but I don't think the prequels will ever become "classics" or even recognized as "good."
 
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SterankoII

New member
The lightsaber fighting in the prequels will still be cooler to kids in the future than some of the gunfights in the originals(which I love).

ROTS still has a 7.9 rating(at 135,074 votes) at IMDB for the past three years.

I guess with regards to the prequels, some fans are going to think it's stupid the way Brian DePalma thought the original Star Wars was when George showed him a rough cut. Or they'll think it's great like Spielberg did when he saw the first SW.
 

agentsands77

New member
SterankoII said:
The lightsaber fighting will still be cooler to kids in the future than some of the stuff in the originals(which I love).
Granted. But the lightsaber fights are going to lose their appeal as this generation grows up, and the flaws are going to become more glaring.

SterankoII said:
ROTS still has a7.9 rating(at 135,074 votes) at IMDB for the past three years.
Granted. There was a lot of positive reaction towards the film originally... but I think a lot of that favor has fallen away since its release.
 

SterankoII

New member
Originally Posted by SterankoII
The lightsaber fighting will still be cooler to kids in the future than some of the stuff in the originals(which I love).
Granted. But the lightsaber fights are going to lose their appeal as this generation grows up, and the flaws are going to become more glaring.

That could be true.

In screenwriter William Goldman's book Adventures in the Screen Trade written in the early 80s, there's a part where he talks about taking a group of teenagers to see the Star Wars in the theater again a few years after it had originally come out. The teenagers Goldman writes, had loved the movie when they were younger on it's first release in 1977. Now(which was probably '82 when Goldman wrote this, thought it sucked and were embarrassed that they liked it in the first place!
 

Darth Vile

New member
agentsands77,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and I of course respect your opinion.

The "vehement hatred" that you refer to (if it exists) comes from a very small section of the public. Those views hold little relevance in the light of the box office success of the prequels and the, literally, millions of people who make up a NEW Star Wars audience... who will regard Episodes I, II and III just as much classics as we did with the OT. I think we'll have to live with that fact whether we like it or not.

I agree that the PT did not, and will never have, the cultural impact of the OT... but as I've argued on many boards before now... the cultural significance of the OT has little to do with the quality per se, but more to do with the original concept/movie. And that could never be repeated (there will always be only one Star Wars).
 

agentsands77

New member
Darth Vile said:
The "vehement hatred" that you refer to (if it exists) comes from a very small section of the public.
"Vehement hatred"? Yes. But I have sensed a general attitude of disappointment across the board. Even among those Average Joes whose opinions of the prequels were far higher than mine, I've never gotten a real devotion to the films. Just a "they're better than you're giving them credit for."

Darth Vile said:
Those views hold little relevance in the light of the box office success of the prequels and the, literally, millions of people who make up a NEW Star Wars audience... who will regard Episodes I, II and III just as much classics as we did with the OT.
Box office success and # of viewers does not mandate future "classic" status, however. What mandates classic status in longevity, and whether or not the film can have some sort of longevity beyond childhood.

Darth Vile said:
I agree that the PT did not, and will never have, the cultural impact of the OT... but as I've argued on many boards before now... the cultural significance of the OT has little to do with the quality per se, but more to do with the original concept/movie. And that could never be repeated (there will always be only one Star Wars).
Sure. But I think the OT, to a degree, did have a significantly higher quality than the PT does. The OT holds up on repeat viewings, and as its audience aged, they didn't lose love for what they liked because there was a general degree of quality there. And it's not like STAR WARS wasn't appreciated originally and only gained favor after the generation grew up. It was nominated for Best Picture.

But the PT is such a flawed venture in so many obvious respects that as the younger audience matures and is able to recognize such flaws, they're going to lose their adoration for them. There will certainly be nostalgia for the films, mind you, but I don't believe they'll ever be brought into the realm of "classic" in the court of popular opinion.
 

jamiestarr

New member
agentsands77 said:
I'm not so sure. The vehement hatred will vanish, but I don't think the prequels will ever become "classics" or even recognized as "good."

That's what the oldtimers said about the original trilogy. A Fad is what they called it....
 

jamiestarr

New member

I agree that the PT did not, and will never have, the cultural impact of the OT... but as I've argued on many boards before now... the cultural significance of the OT has little to do with the quality per se, but more to do with the original concept/movie. And that could never be repeated (there will always be only one Star Wars).


I would argue that Empire and Jedi didn't have as much of a cultural impact as the original film did. You only get one "first time".
 

agentsands77

New member
jamiestarr said:
That's what the oldtimers said about the original trilogy. A Fad is what they called it....
Some oldtimers. But there were plenty of "oldtimers" who had given STAR WARS the thumbs-up, too.

As I said: "And it's not like STAR WARS wasn't appreciated originally and only gained favor after the generation grew up. It was nominated for Best Picture."
 

agentsands77

New member
jamiestarr said:
I would argue that Empire and Jedi didn't have as much of a cultural impact as the original film did.
Yes and no. They certainly became just as iconic as the first film was (which is a remarkable achievement).
 

jamiestarr

New member
Sure. But I think the OT, to a degree, did have a significantly higher quality than the PT does. The OT holds up on repeat viewings, and as its audience aged, they didn't lose love for what they liked because there was a general degree of quality there. And it's not like STAR WARS wasn't appreciated originally and only gained favor after the generation grew up. It was nominated for Best Picture.

It is too early to tell how "well" the Prequels will age or be regarded. Honestly, the original Trilogy (with the exception of Episode 4) wasn't really upheld as classic until at least 1997. Sure, Episode 4 was nominated for best picture (it was revolutionary and a technical marvel), but does that really speak to the quality of the film? If so, why wasn't Empire nominated?
 

agentsands77

New member
jamiestarr said:
Honestly, the original Trilogy (with the exception of Episode 4) wasn't really upheld as classics until at least 1997.
Uh, I'm going to have to disagree with ya there. I'd heard of the OT being regarded as classic as early as the mid-to-late 80s.

jamiestarr said:
Sure, Episode 4 was nominated for best picture (it was revolutionary and a technical marvel), but does that really speak to the quality of the film?
No, it speaks to its reception at the time, which is what I was addressing there.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Again we'll have to agree to disagree.

I have found that, in general, the only people genuinely disappointed with the prequels were those who frequent boards such as this (which doesn't mean those views are invalid)? But most people don't even have the interest to debate once the movie has finished playing. Most "normal" people certainly don't dissect and scrutinize every facet like you and me. Even my 50 year old mother loved AOTC when I took her to see it (specifically the Yoda/Dooku showdown). From her perspective, the Star Wars movies (both OT and PT) are largely indistinguishable from each other.

Also ? I think the kids who grew up with the Prequels will just as much find them as re-watchable as our generation did with the OT. I?m not sure how one could claim otherwise. The re-watchability (is that a word?) with movies like Star Wars comes, mostly, from an emotional connection rather than objective opinion. The same reason why I go to watch Man Utd week after week?
 

agentsands77

New member
Darth Vile said:
Most "normal" people certainly don't dissect and scrutinize every facet like you and me. Even my 50 year old mother loved AOTC when I took her to see it (specifically the Yoda/Dooku showdown).
Sure. But I'm friends with plenty of "normal" people who don't given a thought to film dissection but still laugh their ass off at the mention of Anakin from the prequels.
 

No Ticket

New member
agentsands77 said:
Well, actually, Lucas showed you can mess that up. Shocking though it is.

Incorrect. Though true he did it in a really stupid way... fans still mostly enjoyed it and say ROTS was the best one. No, see, I get where you're coming from. Anakin turned waaay waay, comically, too fast. And the NOOOO! was lame. But fans still generally enjoyed it so it was tough to mess up. He still got a positive reaction for the most part.

... and the podrace is interesting in my opinion. I don't see what's so dull about it, you want dull... how about anything before the podrace and after it up until the lightsaber duel. haha.
 

The Dark Shape

New member
agentsands77 said:
Sure. But I'm friends with plenty of "normal" people who don't given a thought to film dissection but still laugh their ass off at the mention of Anakin from the prequels.

And I'm friends with plenty of "normal" people who think the Prequels are stronger movies. I certainly know many, many people who think Episode III is the best of the lot.

Maybe, when talking about continued impact, we should renew this discussion in ten years.
 
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