Indy 5 news 2012

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Pale Horse said:
Koepp is a good enough writer, provided he doesn't have to piece-meal scenes and scripts together. No one in Hollywood can do that well.

I agree. And so do screenwriters John August and Craig Mazin.

August and Mazin have a pod cast called "Scriptnotes" and have talked about this particular phenomenon...
which is more of a recent phenomenon...

Today, many of the studios practice what is called a "bake-off" in which
more than one writer is hired to pen a script for a certain movie at the same
time as another writer who is working on the same movie simultaneously.
Back in the day this was unheard of.
When the writers finish their different scripts the studio takes a look at them and compares them
and they try to take the stuff they really like from "script A" and "script B" (sometimes there's even a "script c" but not too often)
and take those scenes and TRY TO meld them together into one coherent screenplay.
This usually never works and is really messy when it comes to WGA arbitration for "written by" credits.

While it's possible Lucasfilm might try a "bake-off" type of scenario, I'd be more inclined to believe that they're letting Koepp solely do his thing...
Koepp is actually a very capable writer.

...but that still doesn't account for whatever treatments from the early 90's to now that Lucasfilm MIGHT have lying around that they are very keen to use in this film.
So another cut and paste job is very possible.

But I mean hell, if we get down to it, A lot of the Indy films have used set pieces that either didn't make it into the previous film
or were conjured by one of The Beards
because they were fixated on a certain idea... in this case minus George I'm assuming.
I mean even the first Raiders story transcripts are essentially spit balling ideas for set pieces they really want in the film.
The mine cart chase that was written for Raiders got cut out and used as the
climax for Temple of Doom.
In that regard, the set pieces have always sort of been cut and paste.
 
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Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I still think that even if you incorporate Old Set Pieces from a treatment that is piece-meal, you can still retain singular characters, dialogue, motivations and the like, with one writer.

Especially one as talented as Koepp. It's when you have to start fixing the mistakes of others trying to lipstick up the pig that you run into the problems he had on Skull.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Pale Horse said:
Koepp is a good enough writer, provided he doesn't have to piece-meal scenes and scripts together. No one in Hollywood can do that well.

Don't challenge me on that statement either, I've got a thousand multi-writered screenplays to cite showing how it's bad. It's much harder to fault a screenplay when FADE IN to FADE OUT is solidly in the hands on one talented scene maker.

Come on, the 1967 <I>Casino Royale</I> is a zeitgeist-authored masterpiece.

Anyway, I think our project now, if we want to actually judge this news, is to assess what of <I>...Crystal Skull</I>, good and bad, we can actually credit to Koepp.
 

TheLastCrusader

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Come on, the 1967 <I>Casino Royale</I> is a zeitgeist-authored masterpiece.

Anyway, I think our project now, if we want to actually judge this news, is to assess what of <I>...Crystal Skull</I>, good and bad, we can actually credit to Koepp.
Simple. A few well-directed sequences can be credited to Steven Spielberg;
The one good line in the film ("they weren't you, honey") is Kasdan's, his one and only contribution to the film.
And, well, the story and script can be credited to Mr. Lucas and David Koepp, respectively. Clear-cut case to me.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
TheLastCrusader said:
Simple. A few well-directed sequences can be credited to Steven Spielberg;
The one good line in the film ("they weren't you, honey") is Kasdan's, his one and only contribution to the film.
And, well, the story and script can be credited to Mr. Lucas and David Koepp, respectively. Clear-cut case to me.

Well, a lot of the story is Lucas, some is arguably the earlier screenwriters, and some of it is Koepp.

But I also think there are probably some things in it that don't work that might be more a matter of performance, direction, or production than anything else. The waterfalls, for example, don't play at all. Whose idea was to give that sequence over to Ben Burtt, without contribution from John Williams? Whose idea was it to have Marion clutching the wheel as though she had washed ashore without needing to swim there? Who decided that the hit to plausibility involved in following down three waterfalls was worth suffering because it made the scene more exciting?

Who wanted Mutt to get hit in the crotch by some plants? Who wanted the rubber tree?

I'd also disagree that the film has only good line. Mac, Indy, Stanforth, and Spalko all have some good material. They also generally played it well.

I'd argue there are some dubiously deleted scenes, too, including some lovely lost characterization for Stanforth, that we can almost certainly credit to Koepp.
 
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EvilEmperorZoRG

New member
Bjorn Heimdall said:
I guess no one told Spielberg and co. that Crystal Skull had a bad script. That's a shame.

In KOTCS there was some really bad directing by Spielberg especially compared to the rest of IJ films. Maybe he wasn't really into it because of the story forced by Lucas...

One example...
Inside the warehouse when Indy hits the russian and take his whip, the camera shows all the Rurrians are turning towards Indy and then it takes for a few seconds before he manage to grab the guns also. It all happens so slow when it was supposed to be really fast so the Russians couldn't have manage to react...

I never really disliked KOTCS though (besides all its flaws) but it felt really mediocre for a last part of such an amazing franchise. I always said to myself this can't be the last IJ movie we get.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
...but that still doesn't account for whatever treatments from the early 90's to now that Lucasfilm MIGHT have lying around that they are very keen to use in this film.

Will they do this, I wonder? For Force Awakens, Lucas said Disney had no interest in his notes and decided to go their own way. I suppose the presence of Spielberg might make this a different situation though...
 

Sakis

TR.N Staff Member
No matter how disappointed Kingdom was, screenplay-wise, I have to admit that Koepp has made many successes, Jurassic Park, Spider-Man, Carlito's Way, Mission: Impossible, Panic Room. He can't be that bad. The whole aliens story, I believe, took a toll on everybody, scriptwriter and director. Let's wait and see.

And let's hope we'll have good whip action.
 
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