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Old 10-25-2016, 03:44 AM   #626
DoomsdayFAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Based on Last Crusade - which I'm quite fond of - I'm not sure they learned anything from Temple of Doom's perceived shortcomings than that people liked Raiders of the Lost Ark more than its follow-up. (To be fair, Last Crusade is also tonally different than either of its predecessors, replacing Temple's garishness with a more even palette, its hellish darkness with possibly too much lightness and humor, and its shallower characterizations with a starry, meaty-for-its-genre two-hander and more sophisticated writing.)

If they came into it with that same attitude, that may be enough to make the next one halfway decent. Especially if they try to make it more like Raiders (or any of the OT). But my faith in modern Spielberg is a bit shaky. He's not the same man he was in the late 70s-early 90s. He's grown far too soft and overly sentimental (which is saying something considering how sentimental he was back then). Most of his stuff now seems way too light and fluffy. The man is terrified of going even remotely dark and/or taking any kind of a real risk. KOTCS was one of the most "phoned-in" movies I think I've ever seen, from all involved. (Spielberg/Ford/Williams, etc).

As for the look of KOTCS, it looked all wrong. Just way too drastically different from the OT. While they themselves were all different from one another, to me, they all seemed to be kind of under the same umbrella. Not KOTCS. Way too much CGI and (obvious) fake lighting, and the whole color scheme just seemed way too pale and dull.

Please don't get me started on the "jokes". Pretty much all of it was nauseating and cringeworthy. It wasn't charming like LC or goofy-fun like ToD. It was just bad. And the "villain" of KOTCS..... I've seen more threatening villains in Disney cartoons. She was just insulting pathetic. We need a real villain this time around. Preferably a man (Belloq / Mola Ram / etc) and someone who actually feels dangerous and intimidating.

What really scares me is that KOTCS happened nearly 10 years ago, and even then they treated Indy like he was ready for the retirement home. I swear, you'd think he was pushing 90. So what are they gonna do for this one, which will debut 11 years after that one?!

This is gonna be a "see to believe" type of deal for me. My expectations are so low... I'm not sure they could get any lower. This might be yet another film that I completely disavow from the franchise, if it's as bad as KOTCS. I'm glad they're giving it another shot, and I'll give them a chance to prove me wrong, but I'm really not expecting much, if anything.


I will add though that no Lucas is a major step in the right direction.

Last edited by DoomsdayFAN : 10-25-2016 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:44 AM   #627
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My favorite part:

”I really like our idea; I think it’s clean and simple and makes a lot of sense, and I feel like the writing is going really well.”

Reads to me like "no back and forth young Indy flashback BS", which I approve wholeheartedly.
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Old 10-25-2016, 06:10 AM   #628
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I remember hearing it was mostly Lucas holding everything back last time. Now later with later interviews I heard both Lucas and Spielberg usually tries to keep each other in balance.

If I should be happy or not that Lucas is not involved this time I don't know... Should I be happy or not Koepp is back? It's a treacherous thing. Spielberg and Koepp did Jurassic Park. Or was it a hit because Crichton co-wrote the script? Koepp wrote good movies, can't deny that. Jurassic Park, Mission Impossible, Stir of Echoes, Panic Room, War of the Worlds, Angels and Demons were all great. Maybe his last movie wasn't great.

KOTCS really flunked after they got captured in the jungle. To me the movie succeeded for about 60% but than those finally 45-50 minutes really hurt it. I hope it doesn't fall in the same trap as last time.

After KOTCS I assigned myself to see every Spielberg movie afterwards to convince myself he hasn't lost his touch. And I did until Big Friendly Giant because that's just not for me. But I've seen Tintin, Lincoln, War Horse and Bridge of Spies and I thought they were all great. Now I see that he has a few major productions going though.

Now I'm just thinking out loud but what I think is that Spielberg needs to do an R-rated movie. Something like Munich or Saving Private Ryan. There are still like plenty of stories that can be told from the war or from anywhere else. Something that has had happened and left it's mark on the world. I don't know where he gets that fear of going dark again. It's been a while now, so why not?
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:32 AM   #629
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We could have seven Indy movies at this point... if Lucas hadn't dragged his feet on Crystal Skull.

I don't think aliens were necessarily a bad idea for the film. It was just the execution that the filmmakers were beholden to... and they didn't create any emotional attachment to the characters, which is what makes them so great.

Still bums me out that we didn't get to see an Indy movie made around '93-'96... featuring Indy in the actual World War II.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:19 AM   #630
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Yeah, that would've been perfect. And Indy movie set in 1942 or 1943. Deep in the war. I don't care how many times Indy has to face the Nazis. They were a super power back than; the ultimate evil. Organized. They had their own airforce, landforce, seaforce. Not saying another kind of bad guy or cult can't be fun. What about Indy against the Japanese forces? But it always come back to one kind of villian in world war II --> the Nazis.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:28 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by FordFan
Still bums me out that we didn't get to see an Indy movie made around '93-'96... featuring Indy in the actual World War II.

I've always felt that if they ever make an Indy animated series (which, how have they not by now?), this is the era to cover.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:03 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by FordFan
Still bums me out that we didn't get to see an Indy movie made around '93-'96... featuring Indy in the actual World War II.

Couldn't agree more, what a waste of time.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:10 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN
I
What really scares me is that KOTCS happened nearly 10 years ago, and even then they treated Indy like he was ready for the retirement home. I swear, you'd think he was pushing 90. So what are they gonna do for this one, which will debut 11 years after that one?!

That's my concern, too. They already made Indy into an old man in the last movie. I know the die-hard Ford fans like to point out that Ford is still in good shape, but regardless, the movie itself portrayed Indy as an older guy who simply didn't seem to enjoy adventuring as much as he once did. When Marion drove off the cliff, he told her "Don't ever do that again!" whereas in all the previous movies, HE would have been the one driving off the cliff. They tried to turn him into his father ("This is intolerable!", etc.) And now, as you said, we're 11 years after that, so who will Indy be this time? If they suddenly make him back into his younger, adventurous self again, it won't make sense. On the other hand, if they continue to make him even stodgier than he was in KOTCS, it will make sense from a character perspective, but who would actually want to watch it?
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #634
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My main concern I guess is, especially with Koepp of all people returning, that we'll wind up with another Star Wars: The Force Awakens; a film that I really enjoyed all the hype leading up to but can't say I was particularly 'wowed' by the final product.

Exactly! You are thus far the only person I have heard say this about Indy 5! I enjoyed TFA but felt that it was so overwhelmingly "safe", it doesn't hold a candle to the rest of the saga (but I will reserve further judgement until after seeing the rest of the new trilogy). I hope Lucasfilm does'nt try to repeat their "success" by playing the fifth film as a remake of Raiders because they think that's what fans want to see. But I have hope that Spielberg will not do anything without the blessing of his friend, Lucas (who is afterall, one of TFA's and harshest critics). To be honest, both men in recent years have (ironically), become critical of modern Hollywood and it's tendacy to be so formulaic, that they will just maybe come up with a story that feels original, breaks the statusquo and gives us a proper sendoff to the series.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:37 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFan
We could have seven Indy movies at this point... if Lucas hadn't dragged his feet on Crystal Skull.

Saucermen from Mars not being produced was something of a fluke of history, owing to Independence Day's runaway success. Yes, Lucas had an idea that the other two were not necessarily in love with - aliens - but I'm not sure he was the one dragging his feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN
And the "villain" of KOTCS..... I've seen more threatening villains in Disney cartoons. She was just insulting pathetic. We need a real villain this time around. Preferably a man (Belloq / Mola Ram / etc) and someone who actually feels dangerous and intimidating.

Including either a scene where she actually succeeds in reading somebody's mind or the scene where she's prepared to have Mac's head run over with a jeep might have gone some way towards rectifying that issue. Or, for that matter, the scene where her face gets eaten by ants. I certainly don't think she needed to be hysterical, as suggested here. Spalko and Dovchenko were arguably more driven and workmanlike

For what it's worth, we've all seen more threatening villains than Belloq and Donovan in Disney cartoons too. And maybe a distant relative of Mola Ram?



Moreover, though, based on your critiques of KotCS, most of which I'm on board with (bad jokes, odd cinematography, perhaps directorial softness), I don't see how you think Lucas not being involved is a good thing, especially as he was almost certainly not going to have any power in the process other than advisory.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:13 PM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olliana
My favorite part:

I really like our idea; I think its clean and simple and makes a lot of sense, and I feel like the writing is going really well.

Reads to me like "no back and forth young Indy flashback BS", which I approve wholeheartedly.
That's funny: to me, that statement suggests exactly the opposite.

Having flashbacks with a younger Indy is clean, simple and makes total sense, as well as laying the foundations for future prequels - and Disney know it only too well.

It's a veritable no brainer.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:32 PM   #637
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It's a veritable no brainer.

Except in the sense that it takes away precious screentime from Harrison Ford in what is ostensibly his last outing in the role.

I was intrigued by the Godfather II approach as a mental exercise, but I'm against it now. Since Disney is inevitably rebooting the series afterward, let Indy 5 be Indy 5 and let the reboot be the reboot.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olliana
My favorite part:

I really like our idea; I think its clean and simple and makes a lot of sense, and I feel like the writing is going really well.

Reads to me like "no back and forth young Indy flashback BS", which I approve wholeheartedly.
sounds more like to me, back to the classic that was Raiders Of The Lost Ark and Last Crusade which I am on board with. I am fine with no Lucas involvement, he obviously moved on from Lucasfilms and Big budget blockbusters, and if TFA is any indication I think we are in for a treat! I really enjoyed KOTCS but it had its flaws and could have been better. Disney has been doing great with Star Wars, the movies, TV Show's, Books in the new canon, and comics and video Games, I love battlefronts, I got it for Xbox One it reminds me of Medal Of Honor for my old PS-2 with way better graphics! I am sure they will do right by Indiana Jones! Koep wrote one of my favorite movies Scripts Jurassic Park so I am sure he knows how to write!
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:00 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Including either a scene where she actually succeeds in reading somebody's mind or the scene where she's prepared to have Mac's head run over with a jeep might have gone some way towards rectifying that issue. Or, for that matter, the scene where her face gets eaten by ants. I certainly don't think she needed to be hysterical, as suggested here. Spalko and Dovchenko were arguably more driven and workmanlike.

Spalko ultimately came off as more loony than dangerous. I love the general weirdness of her character and Blanchett's commitment, but she was betrayed by a lack of personality on the script's part and the baffling choice to undermine her as a threat.

The first thing we see Spalko do is fail to read Indy's mind. What a way to establish the main villain! Had this idea been developed or paid off later, it would be one thing, but that never really happens. If you don't establish that Spalko has real powers, why should we be any less skeptical than Indy is when she elucidates on her world domination plan? The clear comparison here is Mola Ram, who is shown to have very real and scary powers straight away, lending at least some weight to his subsequent "We will rule the world!" declaration.

On the subject of Mola Ram, I don't think he would have stood there patiently while Indy and Marion traded hilarious quips.

And seriously, if you're going to succeed at nothing else in an Indiana Jones film, at least give the main villain a memorable death. Having them bloodlessly turn into aerosol doesn't cut it. It's annoying to read how excited Blanchett was about the gnarly chewed-up face idea. She had better instincts than Spielberg did. A tragic waste of what was conceptually the pulpiest Indy villain yet.
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:08 PM   #640
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That's my concern, too. They already made Indy into an old man in the last movie. I know the die-hard Ford fans like to point out that Ford is still in good shape, but regardless, the movie itself portrayed Indy as an older guy who simply didn't seem to enjoy adventuring as much as he once did. When Marion drove off the cliff, he told her "Don't ever do that again!" whereas in all the previous movies, HE would have been the one driving off the cliff. They tried to turn him into his father ("This is intolerable!", etc.) And now, as you said, we're 11 years after that, so who will Indy be this time? If they suddenly make him back into his younger, adventurous self again, it won't make sense. On the other hand, if they continue to make him even stodgier than he was in KOTCS, it will make sense from a character perspective, but who would actually want to watch it?

Let's be honest since Ford is portraing the character Indy IS an old man, just not the average old man maybe. Now, for his reaction towards Marion's or Mutt's actions, I believe they can be attributed to his affection for them. It's one thing to be in a dangerous situation on your own and quite another with people you care about, seeing them in harm's way. This was the intention of the writer from the begining, how people and our hero changes with time. He is old, he is not the same man, he has found his only love, he learns he has a child and doesn't want anything to happen to them. It's something new for him.
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:30 PM   #641
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On the assumption that its not the fountain of youth, wouldn't it be great to have an Indiana Jones film where he's making sh*t happen instead of it happen to him?

At this point in his life, what could he possibly NEED?. Seriously. You're an old man. What do you need, apart from youth that your very illustrious life doesn't/hasn't provided?

He'll have to be alternatively motivated.
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:28 PM   #642
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I hope that October production start date comes true...
Snow in the forecast?
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:43 PM   #643
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Snow in the forecast?

I'd love a snow bound Indy movie.

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Old 10-25-2016, 05:04 PM   #644
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He'll have to be alternatively motivated.
Agreed - and it remains to be seen what Koepp/Spielberg come up with.

On the other hand, we certainly know what's behind Ford's motivation... ;-)

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Old 10-25-2016, 08:48 PM   #645
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Moreover, though, based on your critiques of KotCS, most of which I'm on board with (bad jokes, odd cinematography, perhaps directorial softness), I don't see how you think Lucas not being involved is a good thing, especially as he was almost certainly not going to have any power in the process other than advisory.

I think it's great that he's not involved because A) He's single handedly responsible for the disastrous Prequels. And B) He's primarily responsibly for KOTCS. It just seems like the man is finished as far as coming up with good ideas.

But Spielberg already said Lucas would be an Executive Producer, so I'm sure Spielberg and Lucas have talked about it.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:44 PM   #646
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That's my concern, too. They already made Indy into an old man in the last movie. I know the die-hard Ford fans like to point out that Ford is still in good shape, but regardless, the movie itself portrayed Indy as an older guy who simply didn't seem to enjoy adventuring as much as he once did. When Marion drove off the cliff, he told her "Don't ever do that again!" whereas in all the previous movies, HE would have been the one driving off the cliff. They tried to turn him into his father ("This is intolerable!", etc.) And now, as you said, we're 11 years after that, so who will Indy be this time? If they suddenly make him back into his younger, adventurous self again, it won't make sense. On the other hand, if they continue to make him even stodgier than he was in KOTCS, it will make sense from a character perspective, but who would actually want to watch it?

This is exactly what I'm hoping for. I don't care if Indy is 36 or 76. He should still be able to go on a ToD-level adventure.

I know that sounds nuts, but if Adventure has a name........ (No sense in making him less adventurous).

Point is, they should quit with trying to make him feel so damn old, stop having him or other characters acknowledging it, and just let Indy go on his adventure. I hope this next one is one of his most action packed adventures ever.

Also, I hope the poster for movie is good this time. I love the posters for the first three films. The KOTCS one was just like the film itself......terrible.
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:13 AM   #647
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I fully expect Ford to portray Indy the same way he did Solo in TFA... meaning he'll be involved in a lots of fun action sequences but letting younger characters dominate during other important sequences...This is Disney they're not going to make a tentpole summer movie with a 75 year old leading man as the only star.
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Old 10-26-2016, 02:09 AM   #648
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I fully expect Ford to portray Indy the same way he did Solo in TFA... meaning he'll be involved in a lots of fun action sequences but letting younger characters dominate during other important sequences...This is Disney they're not going to make a tentpole summer movie with a 75 year old leading man as the only star.


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Old 10-26-2016, 02:24 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sartorius
I fully expect Ford to portray Indy the same way he did Solo in TFA... meaning he'll be involved in a lots of fun action sequences but letting younger characters dominate during other important sequences...This is Disney they're not going to make a tentpole summer movie with a 75 year old leading man as the only star.

This can't be done with Indy. In Star Wars Han Solo, inspite of his first billing, was a character helping the main (new) leads, in Indy he is the leading character.
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Old 10-26-2016, 05:37 AM   #650
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Indy in the snow, why not? But not for the full movie. But an everywhere movie why not: desert, jungle, city, snow..., wait that's Raiders.
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