The Sad State of Summer Blockbusters

Montana Smith

Active member
I see your point. There are just too many thugs and maniacs in summer blockbusters today. ;)

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JP Jones

New member
Montana Smith said:
I see your point. There are just too many thugs and maniacs in summer blockbusters today. ;)

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I really don't appreciate being patronized Mr. Smith. I'm trying to have a real conversation here. On another note, stop bringing up Guardians of the Galaxy in this thread. The movie is irreverent and silly, but it does it in a tongue-in-cheek, "wink wink" way. It is certainly not an honest-to-goodness romp. It knows it's ridiculous and plays that aspect of itself up, so as not to "lose respect" from those filmgoers who want their movies to be mature. I'm sorry for ranting, I love the movie, but it's a comedy first, and doesn't fit in this discussion.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
JP Jones said:
I really don't appreciate being patronized Mr. Smith. I'm trying to have a real conversation here. On another note, stop bringing up Guardians of the Galaxy in this thread. The movie is irreverent and silly, but it does it in a tongue-in-cheek, "wink wink" way. It is certainly not an honest-to-goodness romp. It knows it's ridiculous and plays that aspect of itself up, so as not to "lose respect" from those filmgoers who want their movies to be mature. I'm sorry for ranting, I love the movie, but it's a comedy first, and doesn't fit in this discussion.


JP Jones said:
Can't movies unapologetically entertain?


<ten characters>
 

JP Jones

New member
Montana Smith said:
<ten characters>
Dude, say what you want to say. Talk about it. Don't give me these underhanded jabs and expect me to accept what you're trying to get across. What do you have against my opinion?
 

JP Jones

New member
Finn said:
It's in the wrong?
You keep telling me that "They still make fun movies". Yes, I understand that. But you won't accept the fact that the most popular movies of the last 5 years have been not mostly, but totally dark, serious movies. You won't address my main point, that audiences general appetite has inexplicably changed since 2008 or so. You won't listen to my opinion, so how the F*ck can you tell me I'm wrong?
 

kongisking

Active member
JP Jones said:
I really don't appreciate being patronized Mr. Smith. I'm trying to have a real conversation here. On another note, stop bringing up Guardians of the Galaxy in this thread. The movie is irreverent and silly, but it does it in a tongue-in-cheek, "wink wink" way. It is certainly not an honest-to-goodness romp. It knows it's ridiculous and plays that aspect of itself up, so as not to "lose respect" from those filmgoers who want their movies to be mature. I'm sorry for ranting, I love the movie, but it's a comedy first, and doesn't fit in this discussion.

Erm...Guardians of the Galaxy is exactly the kind of film you are demanding, but then you go and say its 'too comedic' to be considered 'an honest-to-goodness romp'? I'm having huge difficulty reconciling your desire with your standards. What is your line, for a fun movie to step into overt comedy territory?

And need I remind everyone, this movie starts with a boy watching his mother die of cancer right in front of him and he refuses to hold her hand as her dying request. It is played dead seriously and is quite horrific to watch.

Comedy? Nope. Fun, but knows when to put on the big-boy pants? Hell yes.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
kongisking said:
Erm...Guardians of the Galaxy is exactly the kind of film you are demanding, but then you go and say its 'too comedic' to be considered 'an honest-to-goodness romp'? I'm having huge difficulty reconciling your desire with your standards. What is your line, for a fun movie to step into overt comedy territory?

Once more we find ourselves in complete agreement Mr. kong. :D

JP Jones said:
But you won't accept the fact that the most popular movies of the last 5 years have been not mostly, but totally dark, serious movies. You won't address my main point, that audiences general appetite has inexplicably changed since 2008 or so. You won't listen to my opinion, so how the F*ck can you tell me I'm wrong?

This is your hypothesis. So we're going to need to see spread sheets, pie charts and all other supporting documentation for the last five years. And compare and contrast them to all previous years.

Then we'll have to move into the field of psychology to define concepts such as "dark", "serious", "pompous", "fun" or "old-fashioned romps".
 

JP Jones

New member
kongisking said:
Erm...Guardians of the Galaxy is exactly the kind of film you are demanding, but then you go and say its 'too comedic' to be considered 'an honest-to-goodness romp'? I'm having huge difficulty reconciling your desire with your standards. What is your line, for a fun movie to step into overt comedy territory?

And need I remind everyone, this movie starts with a boy watching his mother die of cancer right in front of him and he refuses to hold her hand as her dying request. It is played dead seriously and is quite horrific to watch.

Comedy? Nope. Fun, but knows when to put on the big-boy pants? Hell yes.
Again, I don't want to discuss the movie in this thread. I said I loved it, but it's the kind of movie that extenuates it's oddness, because playing it straight-faced (no that doesn't mean serious) would leave them with a movie that today's audience may find too immature. In any case, we can agree it's a niche movie; we've never seen anything quite like it, and it certainly doesn't represent a trend.

Speaking of trends, this thread is entirely subjective. I'm not here to argue numbers, I'm here to discuss a well-known trend that I see as a problem.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
JP Jones said:
In any case, we can agree it's a niche movie; we've never seen anything quite like it, and it certainly doesn't represent a trend.

Green Hornet, Kick-Ass, Kick-Ass 2, Transformers series, Lone Ranger...

JP Jones said:
Speaking of trends, this thread is entirely subjective. I'm not here to argue numbers, I'm here to discuss a well-known trend that I see as a problem.

Is it a "trend", or are you simply asserting your own "subjective" view of the state of cinema?

In your first post you suggested that Nolan might be the culprit.

So let's take his subject matter - Batman - and go back to 1989-1992. Tim Burton's vision of the character, his world and his associates was hardly a bundle of laughs. Neither were Batman comics of the late '80s and '90s.

How far back do we take the supposed trend? Cinema has always been varied, from flimsy romps to unrelenting verisimilitude.

You mentioned Pirates of the Caribbean as being representative of your version of a "fun" blockbuster. On Stranger Tides came out in 2011, so no doubt bucking the trend in your eyes.

I don't recall any of the Iron Man films, or any of the inter-connected Avengers films being "heavy, dark, pretentious".

It all comes down to your personal definition of "fun", which is necessarily subjective, and therefore does not establish "a well-known trend".
 

JP Jones

New member
Montana Smith said:
Green Hornet, Kick-Ass, Kick-Ass 2, Transformers series, Lone Ranger...



Is it a "trend", or are you simply asserting your own "subjective" view of the state of cinema?

In your first post you suggested that Nolan might be the culprit.

So let's take his subject matter - Batman - and go back to 1989-1992. Tim Burton's vision of the character, his world and his associates was hardly a bundle of laughs. Neither were Batman comics of the late '80s and '90s.

How far back do we take the supposed trend? Cinema has always been varied, from flimsy romps to unrelenting verisimilitude.

You mentioned Pirates of the Caribbean as being representative of your version of a "fun" blockbuster. On Stranger Tides came out in 2011, so no doubt bucking the trend in your eyes.

I don't recall any of the Iron Man films, or any of the inter-connected Avengers films being "heavy, dark, pretentious".

It all comes down to your personal definition of "fun", which is necessarily subjective, and therefore does not establish "a well-known trend".
You don't believe that gritty (let's use that word from now on rather than "dark") movies have become the more popular form of big blockbuster, because they still make innocent (let's use that word instead of "fun") movies from time to time. Tell me why that is not a ridiculous opinion. I've referenced recent movies that were innocent entertainment, I know they exist. I'm simply trying to point out the fact that their popularity is nothing compared to the Dark Knights and the Man of Steels of the world. Now I can't prove that to you, but you have to be pretty damn dense to not realize that.

I'm glad you brought up Burton's Batman. Here we have two movies that are dark, that deal with adult themes, but remember their subject matter and remember to have fun. Nolan's obsession with realism and maturity in the Dark Knight and Rises sacrificed the style and fun that made Burton's movies great. I know I'm not the only one here who is sick and tired of watching movies that pride themselves on being "realistic" or "gritty". It is a pretentious mindset and it doesn't automatically lead to a masterpiece. Unfortunately critics and audiences regularly think it does.:(
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Since I haven't posted here, I hope this is seen solely as an act of moderation.

JP Jones said:
You keep telling me that "They still make fun movies". Yes, I understand that. But you won't accept the fact that the most popular movies of the last 5 years have been not mostly, but totally dark, serious movies. You won't address my main point, that audiences general appetite has inexplicably changed since 2008 or so. You won't listen to my opinion, so how the F*ck can you tell me I'm wrong?

Like this?

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Montana Smith

Active member
JP Jones said:
You don't believe that gritty (let's use that word from now on rather than "dark") movies have become the more popular form of big blockbuster, because they still make innocent (let's use that word instead of "fun") movies from time to time. Tell me why that is not a ridiculous opinion. I've referenced recent movies that were innocent entertainment, I know they exist. I'm simply trying to point out the fact that their popularity is nothing compared to the Dark Knights and the Man of Steels of the world. Now I can't prove that to you, but you have to be pretty damn dense to not realize that.

I'm glad you brought up Burton's Batman. Here we have two movies that are dark, that deal with adult themes, but remember their subject matter and remember to have fun. Nolan's obsession with realism and maturity in the Dark Knight and Rises sacrificed the style and fun that made Burton's movies great. I know I'm not the only one here who is sick and tired of watching movies that pride themselves on being "realistic" or "gritty". It is a pretentious mindset and it doesn't automatically lead to a masterpiece. Unfortunately critics and audiences regularly think it does.:(

Like I said, your definition of "fun" or "innocent entertainment" is subjective:



Sticking with 'superhero' films, how come all those Captain America, Iron Man, Avengers, Thor, Kick-Ass, Green Hornet, Lone Ranger, Green Lantern etc films don't fit your so-called trend for "realistic" or "gritty" films?
 

curmudgeon

Well-known member
So, just for illustrative purposes, I have a chart that lists (roughly) the domestic top ten films of each year, for the past 15 years.

JP, I've taken your comments into consideration and have highlighted a number of blockbuster/adventurous type movies in yellow (for "lighter" films) and red (for "darker" films) based on how you seem to consider them. I skipped a few out of not knowing either way.

10-chart-1.jpg


You just let me know if I got any wrong, or how you'd vote on any I missed and I'll fix it for you.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
curmudgeon said:
So, just for illustrative purposes, I have a chart that lists (roughly) the domestic top ten films of each year, for the past 15 years.
Any chance for a slightly larger illustration? Because that one is a hag to read - at points almost impossible.



After trying to make some sense of it regardless, I might suggest following additions:

Yellow column: MI-2, Rush Hour 2

Red column: Gladiator, Day After Tomorrow, Casino Royale, 300, Dark Knight

Also, I'd scratch 2014 for still being incomplete.
 
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Le Saboteur

Active member
JP Jones said:
I'm simply trying to point out the fact that their popularity is nothing...

I would suggest to you that something happened in late '07, early '08 that altered the national psyche. The lot of you are wa-ay over thinking this.

6-sign.gif



Though, shouldn't this be appended to The Drifter's "They aren't making what I like, so everything sucks thread?


The working girls at the White Tiger all know my name.
 

JP Jones

New member
Le Saboteur said:
I would suggest to you that something happened in late '07, early '08 that altered the national psyche. The lot of you are wa-ay over thinking this.
So why aren't we discussing this? What did happen? Why is the national psyche the way it is? The reason Mr. Smith and company are driving me nuts is that they refuse to acknowledge that something did happen, which is flat-out stupid. Movies, on the whole, are different now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. They are mostly more mature and "smart"; more realistic and less stylistic. Talking with Mr. Smith is like discussing global warming with someone who believes it's a myth.

I know there are people here who recognize my assessment, now can we please discuss WHY?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
JP Jones said:
So why aren't we discussing this? What did happen? Why is the national psyche the way it is? The reason Mr. Smith and company are driving me nuts is that they refuse to acknowledge that something did happen, which is flat-out stupid. Movies, on the whole, are different now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. They are mostly more mature and "smart"; more realistic and less stylistic. Talking with Mr. Smith is like discussing global warming with someone who believes it's a myth.

I know there are people here who recognize my assessment, now can we please discuss WHY?

Talking to Mr. Jones is like discussing global warming with someone who believes it's a myth.

You haven't yet proved your "assessment".

See curmudgeon's post. There's more yellow than red.

And really, it's not our fault there aren't enough films to satisfy your definition of "fun".
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Montana Smith said:
See curmudgeon's post. There's more yellow than red.
And overwhelmingly so in top-3 for each year, where the biggest blockbusters are usually found.

So yeah. Where's the trend?
 
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