Batman Films

oki9Sedo

New member
ClintonHammond said:
"I meant it was generally comic book-ish."
It was generally lame and sad. Tim Burtons "Batman" was an affront to the history of Batman that came before it, and I thank PASTA that Batman Begins came along and washed the taste of Burton's film away....

The film was Tim Burton's Batman. He made it his own.

"Desperate Measures pic... Ya... o.k.. now show me any evidence he looked like that in Batman.... It was the moulded rubber suit that was 'cut', not Keaton.

I don't know if he was in that shape for Batman.

""thats down to the choreographer, not Keaton."
The choreographer was forced to slow Batman down because he had an actor that could hardly pull off even the most basic of fight moves.

The Batsuit weighed 70 pounds. 70 pounds. Pretty awkward for anyone to do a fast fight scene wearing something that heavy.

"Bale was too big in Batman Begins."
He looks a hell of a lot more like "The Man Who's In The Best Shape A Man Can Be" than Keaton ever did....[/QUOTE]

True. As I said Bale appears to be slimmer in The Dark Knight.
 

Niteshade007

New member
Earlier someone mentioned Mask of the Phantasm, which is a cartoon that I loved when I was little, and I think it would be cool to bring that to the big screen as a live-action film, although it'll probably never happen.

I won't argue with the fact that Burton is a one trick pony. And maybe since I personally have never read a Batman comic (or any comic, for that matter), I didn't feel that it was an "affront" to Batman, since my knowledge of Batman exists solely from the films and the animated series. Burton's Batman is by no means perfect (in fact now I'm thinking I may have been too generous with my original rating), but I do find it enjoyable to watch.
 
Eric Solo said:
If a movie gets good reviews, makes a lot of money, gets an academy award, and I like it.... It's good. Or at least not crap.

Then explain Crash. Biggest load of **** to ever steal best picture. To hell with the Academy. They're just a bunch of fat Hollywooders nominating based on political agenda rather than true artistic merit. Not that I'd give anyone in Hollywood credit for being able to recognize great art when it slaps them in the face.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Niteshade007 said:
I won't argue with the fact that Burton is a one trick pony.

So if a director has a unique style that he employs regularly, then he's a one trick pony? Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands were all unquestionably "Burtonesque". That doesn't make him a one trick pony, that makes him an auteur.
 
oki9Sedo said:
So if a director has a unique style that he employs regularly, then he's a one trick pony? Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands were all unquestionably "Burtonesque". That doesn't make him a one trick pony, that makes him an auteur.


Auteur? Ha! The word "unique" should never be applied to Burton--at least not any of his recent films. I love Vincent (one of his very first short films)... then came Nightmare Before Christmas... and ugh... Corpse Bride. All employing that EXACT animation style. None of them offered anything new--they were just rehashes of previously successful works. Corpse Bride was down-right painful to endure. The songs were bland, the animation uninspired (and derivative of two prior works), and the story was standard fluff. The reason I enjoy Ed Wood so much is because he didn't fall back on that "Burtonesque" nonsense. Perhaps one trick pony isn't the best description... money-grubbing-Hollywood-whore is a better descriptor. The man sees an easy cash-in and jumps for it. Ed Wood proved that he actually does have some creative muscle--he just would rather not exercise it if there's an easier way out. Face it, that "Burtonesque" visual style is a huge draw for the kids, a prime target age group. Draw the kids, you draw their parents too... easy money even if none of those films have been at all original in recent years.
 

Niteshade007

New member
So if a director has a unique style that he employs regularly, then he's a one trick pony? Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands were all unquestionably "Burtonesque". That doesn't make him a one trick pony, that makes him an auteur.

Fancy word for a one trick pony.

My favorite director, Hitchcock, to me was also a one trick pony. I don't necessarily think of it as a bad thing. They just found a style that they mastered in and used it throughout their careers. Hitchcock only made one comedy. One! All of his other films were suspense/thrillers. Do I still love his work? Of course, he was the Master of Suspense, he owned at it. Tim Burton uses a gothic style in each of films (at least the ones I've seen). I still enjoy some of his films, like Batman, Big Fish (the only film that makes me cry, btw), and Beetle Juice. I really want to see Ed Wood as well.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Niteshade007 said:
Fancy word for a one trick pony.

My favorite director, Hitchcock, to me was also a one trick pony. I don't necessarily think of it as a bad thing. They just found a style that they mastered in and used it throughout their careers. Hitchcock only made one comedy. One! All of his other films were suspense/thrillers. Do I still love his work? Of course, he was the Master of Suspense, he owned at it. Tim Burton uses a gothic style in each of films (at least the ones I've seen). I still enjoy some of his films, like Batman, Big Fish (the only film that makes me cry, btw), and Beetle Juice. I really want to see Ed Wood as well.

One trick pony carries negative connotations though. It implies that the director finds a style and keeps using it because it works and he can't be arsed to do something new.

So to say Hitchcock/Burton are one trick ponies because they have their own unique style is doing them a disservice. They kept using those styles because that was them.

Oh, and the end of Big Fish almost made me cry as well.
 
oki9Sedo said:
One trick pony carries negative connotations though. It implies that the director finds a style and keeps using it because it works and he can't be arsed to do something new.

So to say Hitchcock/Burton are one trick ponies because they have their own unique style is doing them a disservice. They kept using those styles because that was them.

Oh, and the end of Big Fish almost made me cry as well.


Where did Hitchcock come from?! Haha, wow I don't see a similarity in their work at ALL. Hitchcock's films didn't rely on an over-played visual card and nor did he recycle plot elements. ...exception being The Man Who Knew Too Much... but I'll let him slide there since it was a remake... of a prior film HE made. ;)
 
"since I personally have never read a Batman comic (or any comic, for that matter)"
Yer missing out on a LOT of fantastic literature.... The Watchmen... V for Vendetta... The Killing Joke.... The Dark Knight Returns!!

and the list goes on and on and on....

"I do find it enjoyable to watch"
I find Dark Star enjoyable to watch... but I sure wouldn't say it was a GOOD movie... LOL

"Not that I'd give anyone in Hollywood credit for being able to recognize great art when it slaps them in the face."
But you can?!?! What-fn-ever....

"Hitchcock, to me was also a one trick pony"
He also made his share of dogs....
 

Niteshade007

New member
ClintonHammond said:
"since I personally have never read a Batman comic (or any comic, for that matter)"
Yer missing out on a LOT of fantastic literature.... The Watchmen... V for Vendetta... The Killing Joke.... The Dark Knight Returns!!

and the list goes on and on and on....

"I do find it enjoyable to watch"
I find Dark Star enjoyable to watch... but I sure wouldn't say it was a GOOD movie... LOL

"Hitchcock, to me was also a one trick pony"
He also made his share of dogs....

I don't know, just have never been into comics. They don't really do anything for me.

And yes, just because a film is enjoyable doesn't mean it's good, but I do think that Batman is good.

And oh yeah, Hitchcock made some bad films (Torn Curtain being his worst, in my opinon, not suspenseful, not funny, just so bland).
 
ClintonHammond said:
"Not that I'd give anyone in Hollywood credit for being able to recognize great art when it slaps them in the face."
But you can?!?! What-fn-ever....


Ah, you put words in my mouth. Never said I'm entirely infallible. But I can recognize a derivative piece of **** when it comes my way. ;)
 
Niteshade007 said:
And oh yeah, Hitchcock made some bad films (Torn Curtain being his worst, in my opinon, not suspenseful, not funny, just so bland).

I'm honestly not a huge Hitchcock fan myself. Buuuuuuuuuuut, I do think he had some magnificent works. Strangers on a Train is a personal favorite.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
ResidentAlien said:
Ah, you put words in my mouth. Never said I'm entirely infallible. But I can recognize a derivative piece of **** when it comes my way. ;)

I think the problem has always been that a director is as savvy as Joe Public like you or me, but when they're making their own film they're much more oblivious to flaws that seem obvious to you or me.
 
oki9Sedo said:
I think the problem has always been that a director is as savvy as Joe Public like you or me, but when they're making their own film they're much more oblivious to flaws that seem obvious to you or me.

Probable... I mean, I've made some monumentally stupid errors while shooting my films... but those are more from a technical standpoint. I'm still learning that end of it.;)

I think the problem with people like Burton is that they're a slave to the studio. The studio wants money... who are they to argue?
 

oki9Sedo

New member
ResidentAlien said:
Probable... I mean, I've made some monumentally stupid errors while shooting my films... but those are more from a technical standpoint. I'm still learning that end of it.;)

And do you find people criticize dialogue and stuff you would have recognised was flawed if it wasn't your film?

I think the problem with people like Burton is that they're a slave to the studio. The studio wants money... who are they to argue?

True. Burton is a studio director, but as far as I'm aware he has total creative control most of the time. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
"I don't know, just have never been into comics. They don't really do anything for me."
I submit, that's like saying that you're not into TV, or into films.... I suspect that you haven't found ones that are 'right' for you.... There is a WIDE world of 'comics' out there.... You might very well find yourself pleasantly surprised! ,-)


"I can recognize a derivative piece of **** when it comes my way."
Speaking of Tim Burton.... ;-P
 

oki9Sedo

New member
ClintonHammond said:
"I don't know, just have never been into comics. They don't really do anything for me."
I submit, that's like saying that you're not into TV, or into films.... I suspect that you haven't found ones that are 'right' for you.... There is a WIDE world of 'comics' out there.... You might very well find yourself pleasantly surprised! ,-)

Dead right. There might well be stuff out there that appeals to you specifically. Its less likely given that the comic book spectrum is less diverse than film or novels, but you never know.
 
oki9Sedo said:
And do you find people criticize dialogue and stuff you would have recognised was flawed if it wasn't your film?



True. Burton is a studio director, but as far as I'm aware he has total creative control most of the time. Maybe I'm wrong.


Wouldn't know--my films are all silent. ;)

There's no such thing as "Total Creative Control" in the studio system. Lol.
 
"the comic book spectrum is less diverse than film or novels"
That says to me you know precious little about the comic book spectrum....
 

oki9Sedo

New member
ClintonHammond said:
"the comic book spectrum is less diverse than film or novels"
That says to me you know precious little about the comic book spectrum....

Oh come on. There's far less comics than books or films, therefore it follows that its less likely you'll find something that touches you in a particular way.
 
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