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Old 01-29-2010, 01:45 PM   #26
CairoJones
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Dr. Hawass is my hero me and my grandmother have already been to Egypt once and plan to go back. I once wrote to Zahi and he said he would be glad to meet me and we are trying to save money to go back and meet him I also own most of his books and one is signed.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:14 PM   #27
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Dr. Hawass is my hero me and my grandmother have already been to Egypt once and plan to go back.
Really!I wish I could go.
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Originally Posted by CairoJones
I once wrote to Zahi and he said he would be glad to meet me and we are trying to save money to go back and meet him I also own most of his books and one is signed.
If you ever get to meet him please tell us what he was like.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:11 PM   #28
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Look what I found!I love this picture!
http://www.drhawass.com/photoblog/fan-art
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Old 02-03-2010, 01:17 AM   #29
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Nice find, Annie!

I have to say, I love this quote as well:

People often ask me, ‘well, it’s not really as exciting as Indiana Jones, now is it?’
I reply, ‘to an archaeologist, yes, it certainly is!’

— Zahi Hawass
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:36 AM   #30
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Dr. Hawass has a number of great qualities, first being his enthusiasm for his subject. He's a scholar, but also a kid in a candy store when it comes to field work and the history of Egypt.

Many scholars lean heavily toward the stuffy side. Hawass makes Egyptology accessible and enjoyable. That's why he's so great on camera.

I never had an opportunity to meet him, though I lived in Egypt for two years while studying anthropology, sociology, and Egyptology at the American University in Cairo. That was 95-97 so it was just before he really came into the media limelight. He's done quite a bit in the field, even if he hasn't discovered anything like Tut's tomb. Remember, archaeology is the science of studying past cultures, not the adventure of finding gold relics. Simple finds that never make it past the pages of KMT (a scholarly journal on Egyptian archaeology), usually tell us more about daily life in ancient Egypt than the artifacts found in a king's tomb.

Another big plus, in my opinion, is that Hawass is actually an Egyptian with a high position in his field in Egypt. That's good to see. I did my Master's thesis on Edward Said's Orientalism. Said basically says the west dominates the east and uses it for an imperialistic playground. Often true, though I disagree with much of what Said wrote. (Said had issues with his father, and I think they carried over to his view of the west.) But it's good to see an Egyptologist who isn't American or British.

Finally, regarding his push for the return of artifacts to Egypt, he's completely justified, particularly in cases where significant finds were essentially smuggled out of the country. The Rosetta Stone was taken during French occupation, and the bust of Nefertiti was (if I recall correctly) smothered in mud and shipped out as 'another unfinished bust' from a workshop. Though its value was known immediately by the German team that discovered it, they snuck it out of the country, bounced it around museums for a while low key, and eventually displayed it as the bust of the famed Queen Nefertiti. Rather nefarious.

The village of Gourna outside of Luxor is famed for being the home to many generations of looters, who built their homes over the entrances to tombs. They looted for a living, and sold mummies and grave goods to archaeologists, tourists, and curators. If they found gold statues, they usually melted them down because selling a bar of gold was easier than fencing a gold statue. Sad to think how many statues or other gold relics were lost because of that. So there are literally thousands and thousands of stolen artifacts scattered around the world. Hawass just want to get some of the more important ones back.

Hawass also assisted in getting the mummy of Ramses I returned to Egypt after a museum bought the Egyptian collection from a museum of the bizarre in Canada at Niagra Falls. Good going there.

As was said earlier, less important artifacts or even minor mummies should be displayed around the world. Egyptian history is the world's history. But Hawass is right in thinking royal mummies, and artifacts like the Rosetta Stone and bust of Nefertiti should be returned to Egypt. They belong in a museum! The Egyptian Museum!

Last edited by Goodeknight : 02-11-2010 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:10 AM   #31
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He's a liar.

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Originally Posted by goodeknight
Finally, regarding his push for the return of artifacts to Egypt, he's completely justified, particularly in cases where significant finds were essentially smuggled out of the country. The Rosetta Stone was taken during French occupation...Rather nefarious.

Egyptian history is the world's history. But Hawass is right in thinking royal mummies, and artifacts like the Rosetta Stone ...should be returned to Egypt. They belong in a museum! The Egyptian Museum!

“We own that stone,” he told al-Jazeera television recently. “The motherland should own this.”
For Dr Hawass, and many others in so-called “source” countries, this is a simple issue of restoring looted cultural property: “For all of our history, our heritage was stolen from us. They [the British Museum] kept it in a dark, badly lit room until I came and requested it.”

There are several objections to this, beginning with what he means by “we” and “the motherland”. Modern Egypt did not exist in 1799, let alone in 196BC, when the stone was carved. Unlike some controversial items in Western museums, the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.

As for the absurd notion that it was undervalued and poorly exhibited: the Rosetta Stone has been on almost continuous, prominent display since 1802, the single most visited object in the entire museum.

But more than that, the Rosetta Stone is an emblem of universality, and a product of the multiple cultures that existed in the 2nd century BC, in what we now call Egypt.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:38 AM   #32
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He's a liar.



“We own that stone,” he told al-Jazeera television recently. “The motherland should own this.”
For Dr Hawass, and many others in so-called “source” countries, this is a simple issue of restoring looted cultural property: “For all of our history, our heritage was stolen from us. They [the British Museum] kept it in a dark, badly lit room until I came and requested it.”

There are several objections to this, beginning with what he means by “we” and “the motherland”. Modern Egypt did not exist in 1799, let alone in 196BC, when the stone was carved. Unlike some controversial items in Western museums, the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.

That's a very valid point. There is still a debate as to the ethnic origins of ancient Egyptians, whether they were African, Asiatic, or Mediterranean. Or more likely, they were a mixed race from early times. Modern Egypt is still a hybrid nation, having gone through Arab domination.

However, the rights and wrongs of appropriating artifacts from Egypt is a tangled dilemma. Regardless of the motives of earler 'appropriators', the artifacts were at least preserved from destruction by grave robbers.

There is no definitive answer as to the legal ownership of the artifacts, except for the political horse trading that occurs between nations when they each have something to gain from a transfer.

If a country claims the rights to the minerals beneath the surface of its land, can it also claim the minerals that were extracted from its land by a previous civilization?

To that same regard, can a country claim back the artifacts which belonged to a previous civilization, which were taken from the land that they now occupy?

Those are rhetorical questions, as the answer would only be found through complicated arguments.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
the stone was not smuggled away, but handed over to the British as part of a legal treaty, signed not only by the French and British, but by the Ottoman Government in Egypt.
.


The Rosetta Stone was part of the booty getting divvied up after the French and British met on Egyptian soil as imperialists sweeping through to take what they wanted and leave Egypt crumbling in the dust of the ages. (Read Said's Orientalism.) No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:07 AM   #34
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No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.

Yeah, before the ADD Egyptian kid ripped the limbs from all the toys, lost some in the sand box and sold the remains to a different nation albeit in unrecognizable pieces!

No surprise this is where our opinions diverge, so you can don your sack cloth, rest (on) your ashes and gnash your teeth wailing for the return of the Stone. But guess what, it’s safe in Britain. Egypt can’t guarantee it’s safety and Heidi Zawass should be kissing England’s pasty white ass for rescuing it from money hungry glory hounds looter thieves and charlatans like Heidi himself!

The Rosetta Stone isn’t Hong Kong baby, so don’t hold your breath! (…or do, you might enjoy it!) Egypt has more important problems to solve before the Stone, it’s not as though they haven’t been passing the reproduction off as the original, (LIARS!).

By the way, I'm just not going to read your sited volume to corroborate some claim YOU'VE made. That's like the hyperbole Heidi Zawass has put forth in claiming the Stone would be safe, and providing no real plan. Please site chapter page, ect. in support of your claim and what new age bookstore or traveling gypsy I need to find in order to view it. Oh and Dannekin Von Erick, (Leaping Lanny Poppov?) wrote a book about Flying Saucers, should we be putting the Stone back until the Aliens come back for it?

The Egyptians stole it from the Aliens...they were the ones who cracked the Alien language off the top! If we still had that we could send them a message they could understand to come back and get it!

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Old 02-11-2010, 03:07 PM   #35
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Whoa... OK.

Anyway, just commenting on the Nefertiti, about it being covered in mud or something along those lines to be smuggled out. I am fairly certain that the allegation is false for two reasons. The first is that the German archaeologists and "preservationists" of the day were notoriously bad when it came to washing artifacts. I say this because a number of the Egyptian artifacts had been removed of their pigments during cleaning and I could see this easily happening, especially turn of the century trying to remove mud or anything else covering the bust.
The second is the argument over the legal documents from 1924. Whether or not they were ethical, etc is irrelevant IF someone had evidence or it was a fact that it was smuggled out of the country in the way described. The documents were misleading, or the bust was in a crate, or the Egyptian inspector didn't know what material it was made from, are all good excuses for trying to get out of a legal document. I would think that if they had proof it was snuck out they would be going down that road rather than arguing legal documents with, frankly, childish excuses.

But otherwise Hawass is an alright guy in my opinion. But I don't know what he meant with having to be shown the Rosetta Stone because he asked. I've seen it, and so have a lot of other people. Perhaps the comment is just out of context. Oh and speaking out of context, Nefertiti has a sweet set up in the Neues Museum! But I think I mentioned that in an earlier post.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:08 PM   #36
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Please site chapter page, ect. in support of your claim and what new age bookstore or traveling gypsy I need to find in order to view it. Oh and Dannekin Von Erick, (Leaping Lanny Poppov?) wrote a book about Flying Saucers, should we be putting the Stone back until the Aliens come back for it?

The Egyptians stole it from the Aliens...they were the ones who cracked the Alien language off the top! If we still had that we could send them a message they could understand to come back and get it!

Come on, Rocket Surgeon, the Narmer Palette was the one left by aliens. It has the alien chief-god-astronaut on one side, and alien giraffes on the other. Duh. (And the little circle on the back isn't nearly big enough to be a stargate.)

Incidentally, if you don't know Said's Orientalism is one of the most cited and respected works in modern academia (though I disagree with the majority of what he says), then you should really get off the "Archaeology" thread and go back to some of the fan pages with the teenagers. Your logic is so skewed it's boring.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:35 PM   #37
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Come on, Rocket Surgeon, the Narmer Palette was the one left by aliens.

So know you're an expert on Alien archaeology! Like that was the ONLY artifact left by Richard Branson's species, (oops!).

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Originally Posted by goodeknight
Incidentally, if you don't know Said's Orientalism is one of the most cited and respected works in modern academia (though I disagree with the majority of what he says), then you should really get off the "Archaeology" thread and go back to some of the fan pages with the teenagers.
Yeah, there's someone who posts on the board who actually want's you to back up your bullsh!t! Please, scoffing at something you cannot know unless you ask is almost as childish as posting it in the first place...come on!

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Your logic is so skewed it's boring.
Silly me, I thought I'd respond with the same type of outlandish examples and opinions as you! (Though I may not agree with them ).
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:13 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by goodeknight
The Rosetta Stone was part of the booty getting divvied up after the French and British met on Egyptian soil as imperialists sweeping through to take what they wanted and leave Egypt crumbling in the dust of the ages. (Read Said's Orientalism.) No real treaty or peace process involved. We're not talking about taking away a country's biological weapons. This was a bully coming in to take the best toys.
In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?

Re: the Rosetta Stone being "part of the booty getting divvied up" between the France and Britain...are you sure that is correct? From what I understand, there is no clear explanation as to how it ended up in British hands. (As much as it pains me to say this, France should have it! They found it, they cracked the code with it...)

I admire Dr. Hawass to certain extent. His showmanship certainly can't hurt the generation of interest in Egyptian history. Afterall, a copy of his signature hat is available to buy: http://store.exhibitmerchandising.co...AAIAHILPMLCFEA

P.S. Why do you keep citing Said's Orientalism, if you "disagree with the majority of what he says"?
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #39
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In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?

Good point, but also keep in mind that those earliest antiquarians blew holes in pyramids with dynamite while looking for loot (Richard Vyse, 1830s or 40s I believe). They weren't exactly preservationists until Petrie came along in the 1880s, after about a century of pilfering.

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I admire Dr. Hawass to certain extent. His showmanship certainly can't hurt the generation of interest in Egyptian history. Afterall, a copy of his signature hat is available to buy: http://store.exhibitmerchandising.co...AAIAHILPMLCFEA

Totally agree, and nice link. Wow, the guy has his own signature hat. The other man with the hat is back, and his name is Zahi Hawass.

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Originally Posted by Stoo
P.S. Why do you keep citing Said's Orientalism, if you "disagree with the majority of what he says"?

Another good point, Stoo. For this discussion, Orientalism serves its purpose. I agree with Said that the west has a strong tendency to subjugate the east. But he goes way overboard after making that basic statement.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:26 AM   #40
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In retrospect, it is easy to make the "bully" comment but what exactly was Egypt doing to preserve their heritage in those (pre-Napoleonic) times? The Egyptian Museum DID NOT EVEN EXIST back then and there doesn't seem to have been much serious research into Egyptology until Europeans started doing the legwork. Who was leaving Egypt to "crumble in the dust for ages"? British & French imperialists or the Egyptians themselves?

Yes, there is always a danger of placing modern sensibilities onto arguments over imperialism. Whilst the motives of the imperialists can be largely condemned, some good has emerged from their quest to dominate or oversee. Who's to say what might have happened to the treasures of Egypt if Europeans hadn't spirited them away? Grave robbing is as old as the pyramids, and grave robbers without a care for the past are just as likely to melt gold down or split up valuables for sale, whilst smashing their way past 'lesser' artifacts.

I've read Said's work through colonial studies (which was part of both English Literatature and History at degree level). A large part of Said's argument is the relationship between the dominant European and the subaltern native, something like a father and child relationship, in bald terms the white's attempts to educate and control the savages, thereby creating a relationship of value to the white powers (as in colonialism rather than simple imperialism).

It's a distasteful and patronising concept to our modern outlook, yet it is still a functioning model today in some parts of the world, and through the eyes of some dominating powers.

Yet by taking control of the lives of 'savages', Europeans were simultaneously preserving those things that the native people were not protecting, or did not have the means to protect.

Of course, not all Europeans were enlightened, and some were no better than grave robbers searching only for the intrinsically valuable items, rather than preserving everything of historical value.

As I wrote before, the issue of ownership is a tangled one. We do not know what might have happened to objects that were not preserved by the Europeans. They may have laid safe and undiscovered until the enlightened age of archaeology, or they might have been destroyed or broken up, and scattered across the world. If Egypt wants objects returned (and these are objects pertaining to a culture that is no longer represented by modern Egypt), is there a case that Egypt must pay for all the years of protection and preservation that the European powers have given to the treasures that they claim?

Also, as I wrote before, ownership will probably only be decided through international horse trading. Objects may be returned for political or other gain if the timing suits both parties.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:18 PM   #41
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Whilst

I really like that word. I've seen it in The Raven before, but not for some time.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:47 AM   #42
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I really like that word. I've seen it in The Raven before, but not for some time.

I'm a frequent user, so can I claim the equivalent of air miles whilst using it?
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:24 PM   #43
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A while ago I remember watching a movie called,Legend of the Lost Tomb,with Zahi Hawass(he wasn't a main character) he played himself as a tour guide.The movie was kind of corny,but years went by that I didn't watch it,and when my family got cable,Zahi Hawass was on an educational channel and then I remembered back,when I was watching that movie and I thought,"Hey,I remember seeing him in that movie!"That movie was the first time that I saw him.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:58 AM   #44
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The Al Jazeera interview from '07.



And a more recent addition to the topic.

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Old 06-29-2010, 10:47 PM   #45
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Dr. Hawass is coming to the History Channel in July! Starting on 14 July Dr. Hawass and "his cadre of fellows unearth astonishing finds and tackle some of the world's greatest archaeological riddles, from who built the pyramids to the location of Cleopatra's tomb. It's a whirlwind tour, led by the man who holds the keys to Egypt's greatest antiquities and rules his world like a modern-day pharaoh."



Once you're finished with the video, drop in on the site! You can also see a higher quality version of the trailer, and read up on the unfortunate souls who signed on for this trip!

And if you browse through Youtube, some of the audition tapes are fairly amusing.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:07 AM   #46
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Sweet!!

Wish I was one of the "volunteers."

And this answers the original question that started the thread. Zahi Hawass ROCKS!

It'll be a great show, even if it is completely cheesy, over the top, and has zero intellectual value. Can't wait to see it.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:31 PM   #47
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After all, TV archaeology is the search for adventure, not facts. If you want facts, the library is right down the road.
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:53 AM   #48
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I have to agree with Violet. He comes across as a bit of an attention hound. He's fallen from the pure faith.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:32 AM   #49
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CNN's Quiz Zahi Hawass

CNN has this little feature where you can ask various celebrities and well-known individuals questions. This time it's Zahi Hawass. You can post a question to Dr. Hawass here:
http://connecttheworld.blogs.cnn.com...hawass/?hpt=T2

I wonder how he would do with Indiana Jones movie trivia?
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:39 PM   #50
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i do love the show. it's not really true archaeology, but it's what every indiana jones fan wants archaeology to be. and while he might be an attention hound, he does get people interested in preserving the past. and that is a good thing. zahi hawass rocks in my book!
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