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Old 04-11-2018, 01:47 PM   #76
IndyBuff
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This is probably the first Star Wars film I'll opt out of seeing in theaters, though if the reviews and reactions are glowing then I might consider it. The trailers look decent but I'd still prefer a new story with new characters. Learning about Solo's past is not nearly as interesting as imagining what it might have been like.
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Old 05-04-2018, 03:35 PM   #77
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Okay, here's the official Arrested Development parody.
(Cinco de Cuarto falls on May the 4th this year.)

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Old 05-09-2018, 05:46 AM   #78
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Exclamation Opening Weekend? Not this time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyBuff
This is probably the first Star Wars film I'll opt out of seeing in theatres,...
This will be the first "Star Wars" film that I won't see on opening day...except for the original, 3 weeks after release.

It seems that I'm one of the few who actually wanted a Young Han movie (ever since Brian Daley's books in '79) but, while this is exciting, hopefully it won't be a financial success. Why? To help convey a message for The Mouse House:

Kathleen Kennedy should be replaced. If opening weekend numbers for "Solo" fall below expectation, it might indicate to Di$ney that a large portion of loyal, paying customer$ are displeased & turned off. The chance to make a difference in Lucasfilm is coming up right now so it's time to vote from the pocket.

Dr. Jones' fate is tied to these very circumstances so, please, my dear fellows...choose wisely!
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Old 05-09-2018, 10:34 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
This will be the first "Star Wars" film that I won't see on opening day...except for the original, 3 weeks after release.

It seems that I'm one of the few who actually wanted a Young Han movie (ever since Brian Daley's books in '79) but, while this is exciting, hopefully it won't be a financial success. Why? To help convey a message for The Mouse House:

Kathleen Kennedy should be replaced. If opening weekend numbers for "Solo" fall below expectation, it might indicate to Di$ney that a large portion of loyal, paying customer$ are displeased & turned off. The chance to make a difference in Lucasfilm is coming up right now so it's time to vote from the pocket.

Dr. Jones' fate is tied to these very circumstances so, please, my dear fellows...choose wisely!

I agree. Kennedy needs to go.
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:49 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
a large portion of loyal, paying customer$ are displeased & turned off.

By "large portion," do you mean the vocal minority of randoms who complain about this stuff on internet movie message boards? Mainstream audiences are Disney's target, not cinephiles like us, and they are still lapping up every shred of content related to Disney's film universes. The large-scale backlash that you guys keep talking about is not in the mainstream.
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:04 PM   #81
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Good Wall Street Journal article substantiating in part some of the sentiments expressed in this thread:


Quote:
Mr. Lucas hired Ms. Kennedy shortly before Disney acquired Lucasfilm in 2012. Since then, there have been three director changes over five “Star Wars” films, raising eyebrows in Hollywood and among fans.

Gareth Edwards, director of 2016’s “Rogue One: A Star Wars Story,” was replaced after principal photography by Tony Gilroy, who shot new scenes and re-edited the movie. In a recent interview on the podcast “The Moment With Brian Koppelman, ” Mr. Gilroy said “they were in so much terrible, terrible trouble that all you could do was to improve their position.”

Colin Trevorrow, the director of “Jurassic World” initially tapped to helm the next “Star Wars” movie, 2019’s Episode IX, was dismissed after Ms. Kennedy grew unhappy with his work on the script, said a person with knowledge of his work on the movie.

A firm and decisive hand is needed in running a major Hollywood franchise, and Ms. Kennedy’s supporters say she has worked well with J.J. Abrams, director of 2015’s “The Force Awakens,” and Rian Johnson on last year’s “The Last Jedi.” Others say she has too frequently second-guessed her own choices and hasn’t effectively resolved disagreements with directors.

Mr. Johnson said he felt Ms. Kennedy gave him a “creative bubble” that empowered him “to tell the story I cared about in the way I wanted to tell it.”

Mr. Abrams said he had differences of opinion “all the time” with Ms. Kennedy, but that she “really takes in what people say and finds a creative way to aggregate and distill the conversation.”

People who have worked with her on past movies, including “E.T.,” “Jurassic Park” and “The Sixth Sense,” described her as more of a skilled manager than creative mastermind. At Disney, she has worked closely on creative matters with film studio chairman Alan Horn and Mr. Kasdan, the strongest remaining link to the original “Star Wars” trilogy since Mr. Lucas retired.

Mr. Kasdan, who hadn’t made a studio movie in more than a decade before returning to Lucasfilm, co-wrote “The Force Awakens” and “Solo” and consulted on the writing and editing of “The Last Jedi.”

Lucasfilm under Ms. Kennedy has produced three blockbusters. “The Force Awakens,” “Rogue One” and “The Last Jedi” were the highest-grossing movies the years they were released, and each scored 85% or higher on Rotten Tomatoes. Pre-release polling indicates “Solo” will set a Memorial Day weekend record with an opening of more than $140 million and possibly as high as $200 million.

Still, momentum for the series is on the wane since “The Last Jedi.” Controversial among fans, its ticket sales fell faster than for earlier “Star Wars” movies, a sign of weaker word-of-mouth.

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Old 05-10-2018, 11:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
Good Wall Street Journal article substantiating in part some of the sentiments expressed in this thread:

My screenwriting instructor reminded me of this well-known quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Goldman
Nobody knows anything...... Not one person in the entire motion picture field knows for a certainty what's going to work. Every time out it's a guess and, if you're lucky, an educated one.

Kathleen Kennedy may not be a creative mind but she is a shrewd businesswoman. she is making the mousehouse a **** ton of money. Hollywood armchair quarterbacks looking to advance their blogs with web clicks will do anything to try and create controversy. Whatever drives revenue, right? More so, the mouse house will use this media to create speculation, and further Drive investors confusion to a higher stock profit. This will be a win-win for all involved, mark my words.
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Old 05-11-2018, 06:42 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Kathleen Kennedy may not be a creative mind but she is a shrewd businesswoman.

She's toast. The Wall Street Journal article tells the story. I suspect Jon Favreau will take over in a year or so.



Kennedy has fired directors on 3 of 5 five Start Wars stories (whereas I think Marvel has only had to do it once with Ant Man) -- and the two directors that she stuck with (JJ and the clown from Last Jedi) are largely the reason why the franchise is in such bad shape. Disney bought Lucasfilm and Marvel at roughly the same time, for about the same amounts -- and which property has proven to be the better investment?

Kennedy posting that congratulatory passing of the lightsaber to Marvel message was really classy but it's a death knell for her stint at the head of Lucasfilm.

Marvel just cranks out films and prints tons of cash. Star Wars is sucking fumes and exhausting the good will of an aging fan base. I've got three kids and Star Wars is completely irrelevant in my house -- which is fascinating because two out of three are girls exactly in the demographic recent Star Wars films have targeted. Whereas Marvel is discussed, watched or referenced in my house on a daily basis (we've got a vacation planning white board up in our living room and yesterday one of the kids added 'kill Thanos' to the to-do column).

Look at the photo again. Kennedy is on the outside -- that's the story.

Last edited by Joe Brody : 05-11-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:03 PM   #84
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I'll be honest and say TLJ (and the idea of the subsequent milking of the franchise every single year) has actually totally killed all interest I had in Star Wars. Not even going forward. I don't even bother watching the old movies anymore. Like, I feel almost...just turned off to them. And no, it wasn't simply because of any "SJW" stuff but...just you had three great films, three average to subpar films...And then three empty hollow vessels...It's just...I can't even really explain it. My interest at this point, I'm so fatigued and down because of all the nonsense that you couldn't even pay me to watch the original, un-messed with versions in HD. I would have zero interest. Maybe TLJ just showed me I outgrew them, but then again, I love Marvel films and they're equally as "adolescent." I don't know. I literally just feel repulsed by them at this point. Decade after decade of the same old crap. Rebels vs. Empire. Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and these worthless new characters. You have an entire universe George created back in the 70s full of all sorts of fantastic potential and you waste it on the same general themes and characters and same general stories. People can complain about the EU all they want but at least it introduced some truly out there stuff which took advantage of how big the universe is.

Star Wars is just tired out for me. Beaten to death. I'm not even gonna see Solo or IX. I don't care anymore. It's worn me down.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:06 AM   #85
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But she is a super nice person who I have always enjoyed talking to. So I will disagree with you JB.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:50 AM   #86
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Saw a couple of reviews on twitter about the movie after the hollywood premiere. Mostly positive, however Im sure that Disney had these people attend the premiere for a reason so I'll wait until I see reviews of people who just saw the movie in theaters as a regular person.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:50 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundshort
But she is a super nice person who I have always enjoyed talking to. So I will disagree with you JB.

I don't doubt that she is super nice but being super nice doesn't get it done in corporate America. When you compare where Star Wars is to Marvel it is clear that she's failed. It's a totally even playing field: same corporate backing (essentially an open checkbook) and marketing support -- and given the huge pent up demand among the Star Wars fanbase, I'd argue that she had more momentum than Marvel.

Like all corporate leaders she laid out a strategy and it hasn't really worked.

(1) Targeting Girls. Disney and Kennedy made a conscious decision to target girls, and they have pretty much failed. I dutifully took my family to all the Star Wars films and my girls could care less about the new films. Whereas with Marvel, my kids re-watch the films, my oldest had a Marvel themed prom-posal, and on the way to Infinity War my kids started a discussion in the car about who in the family is which Marvel villain (I'm Zemo from Age of Ultron btw). In other words, they care about Marvel -- and Marvel isn't even targeting girls (yet!).

(2) Developing One Shot Films. Rogue One is now known as a famously troubled production -- and now Solo was equally troubled. According to the Wall Street Journal article, Kennedy lost faith in the humorous offbeat direction her first directors were taking -- but query what exactly was she expecting when she hired the guys that made the Lego Movie in the first place?

(3) Overall Arc of Episodes 7-9: Kennedy handed the keys to JJ Abrams who cooked up a stupid narrative: a-play-it-again-Sam-Empire (New Order?) and kids being killed again -- all topped off with another boring Emperor figure. Rian Johnson was smart enough to blow that up but not smart enough to replace it with anything interesting -- though we do get to see Luke Skywalker revert to farming and actually engage in some animal husbandry.

Again, failures, across the board.

Now compare Star Wars to Marvel. With the Infinity War release, Marvel has released some great anniversary footage -- including an interview with Favreau that was taped three weeks before the release of Iron Man. While Favreau hedged his bets ten years ago, he also played out the possibilities for the future. Nothing pays dividends more in corporate america than being right -- and he was right in a big way. I find it very interesting that in press around Infinity War, I also read how Marvel is very purposeful in their test screenings and how the input of even non-attached people like Favreau is highly valued on every film. And now I find it even more interesting that he is leading a Star Wars TV series that is set after Episode 6. It's sound like a mini-reboot to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFedora
Saw a couple of reviews on twitter about the movie after the Hollywood premiere. Mostly positive, however Im sure that Disney had these people attend the premiere for a reason so I'll wait until I see reviews of people who just saw the movie in theaters as a regular person.


Totally agree. Look at Ready Player One. All the advance press was glowing and the film didn't even earn back its production budget here in the U.S. What I found very interesting about the Wall Street Journal Article on Solo is that they said that Howard reshot like 70% of the film in a very hurried style. I am not a big Ron Howard Fan and find it hard to believe that he is creative or talented enough to cook up something special. Now, I will give him a benefit of the doubt because professionally his back is against the wall after a series of duds and he should be in his comfort zone given Kennedy's above noted friendliness and Howard being buddies with Lucas. Remember, Spielberg had his professional back up against the wall when he went to make Raiders and he delivered his best work. We'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Star Wars is just tired out for me. Beaten to death. I'm not even gonna see Solo or IX. I don't care anymore. It's worn me down.

Totally agree here too. I watch the Solo film and see more deserts and star destroyers -- and I don't see anything to make me want to see the film.

Last edited by Joe Brody : 05-12-2018 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:22 PM   #88
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OK Joe - lets look at this it seems your market research is your family. Well let me counter with my market research, my family. My wife and I will not watch ANY Marvel comic book movies, and will see Solo. We wont re watch any of the star wars movies, well because they aren't very good.

So there! We did re watch Friday the 13th for it's 38th Anniversary a few days ago. And I am sure Meatballs and Caddyshack are going to be viewed soon.
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:44 PM   #89
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Hilarious! I deserve that.

How about this: Last Jedi didn't make as much as Black Panther.

Let's do a comparison. Last Jedi was a highly anticipated second installment in the final third trilogy of the Star Wars canon originally envisioned by George Lucas -- with Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill reprising their iconic roles. Black Panther, on the other hand, is a third tier Marvel property with an almost totally African American cast and hardly any caucasian characters and a somewhat divisive storyline. Despite all that, Black Panther has made $1,340 Global ($696M Domestic) versus Last Jedi's 2017 $1,332 ($620M Domestic). Black Panther is still in theaters and making more money. Also, Infinity War is going to blow past both.

So basically, the Marvel team was able to outdo Lucasfilm with a third tier African character with a no-name cast and Black Panther cost just a little less to make.

We'll see how Solo does -- but I bet it doesn't come anywhere close to Last Jedi. Last Jedi did only as good as it did because US theatre owners were forced into a 4 week buy. I bet Solo doesn't have that because of this summer's crowded slate. If Solo does as good as Black Panther or Last Jedi, then I think Kennedy has done well. If it falls short, then she and Lucasfilm are not keeping up. Don't forget, during the same timeframe, Marvel is also squeezing highly profitable films like Thor Ragnarok and heck they are even making Spider Man films for the clowns over at Sony. At the end of the day, there's no comparison, Marvel is running laps around Star Wars financially and creatively -- and there is no reason why Star Wars couldn't have had the same level of success. Again, same corporate parent with the same bank book and corporate marketing machine.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:13 AM   #90
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Kathleen Kennedy will still be part of the creative team in 9 months. I got a bottle of roundshorts best wine, as collateral
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:28 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Kathleen Kennedy will still be part of the creative team in 9 months. I got a bottle of roundshorts best wine, as collateral

No -- I won't take that bet.

In post #83 above I said that the change wouldn't happen for a year or so. Given the 2020 release date for Indiana Jones, I say that she gets to stick around to some point shortly prior to or up to that release -- and she gets a chance to pretty much finish out the trilogy with JJ. (plus, I can't afford round short's best wine)

For what its worth, let's compare slashfilm's attempt to scope out expected upcoming Marvel and Star War's releases based on Disney's announced release schedule:

Quote:
May 1, 2020: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
July 21, 2020: Black Widow solo movie
November 6, 2020: Doctor Strange 2
May 7, 2021: Black Panther 2
July 30, 2021: Ravagers/Guardians of the Galaxy spin-off
November 5, 2021: Ant-Man and the Wasp sequel
February 18, 2022: Captain Marvel 2
May 6, 2022: Avengers 5 (maybe Secret Wars or Secret Invasion?)
July 29, 2022: Black Widow 2

Quote:
May 29, 2020: Obi-Wan Kenobi solo film
May 28, 2021: Rian Johnson’s trilogy part 1
May 27, 2022: Star Wars: Episode X, with Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, and company returning (or maybe a Lando movie?)

While I don't agree with all guesses at the Marvel slate, this comparison drives home the point of just how much more productive Marvel is versus Star Wars -- and remember Marvel films are making as much if not more than Star Wars. While Kennedy's films have made money (largely, I contend by trading-in on fan's loyalty and pent up demand), I submit she has underperformed and failed to lay out a clear vision for the Star Wars universe.

As for Marvel, I'm looking forward to the mini upcoming retro '90's slate they have planned -- both Captain Marvel and Black Widow film's are said to be set in the '90's. I suspect Captain Marvel will have a Top Gun feel to it and Black Widow will deal with the fall of the Soviet Union. It will be very cool if these two female led franchises are linked in some way. As I said above, Marvel has had success with female viewers and hasn't even been targeting them. With their next phase, they do and it will be interesting to see what their level of success is.

Last edited by Joe Brody : 05-13-2018 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:32 PM   #92
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No -- I won't take that bet.
.

Perhaps they will use her stepping down as the way to bookshelf the Indy 5 film???
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:15 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Perhaps they will use her stepping down as the way to bookshelf the Indy 5 film???

That literally makes no sense, and sounds more like a wish on your part than anything. Indy V is starting filming next April. It doesn't matter whose in charge of the studio.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:13 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Perhaps they will use her stepping down as the way to bookshelf the Indy 5 film???

So what wil joe Brody bet? A back packing trip?
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:36 PM   #95
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So what wil joe Brody bet? A back packing trip?

We trade football jerseys.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:32 PM   #96
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I've got no Jersey's to trade but I'm always up for some backpacking.

BTW, Solo reviews are coming out and the critics that don't work for rags dependent on Disney advertising spend are not all that glowing.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:35 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
I've got no Jersey's to trade but I'm always up for some backpacking.

BTW, Solo reviews are coming out and the critics that don't work for rags dependent on Disney advertising spend are not all that glowing.


Yeah I figured, honestly I will probably go to see the movie but not have that much expectations.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:21 AM   #98
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IGN gave it a 7. I don't take their reviews that seriously but apparently it's a fun but unnecessary film, which is pretty much what everyone expected. Doesn't sound like a must-see.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:06 PM   #99
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Ford's face pasted into the trailer.

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Old 05-17-2018, 08:00 PM   #100
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Ford's face pasted into the trailer.


Hilarious -- nothing against the new guy but that trailer makes me appreciate Ford all the more.
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