Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Club Dumas?

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Now the question is, which first? The Book or the film?

That's a tough one. Maybe the film will be more accessible to watch first. Then the book will fill in the detail (and give an alternative ending).
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
While I personally enjoyed the Ninth Gate a lot, I find drawing some of these similarites to Raiders pretty blatant reaching.

After all, there does not need to be a conscious connection between two media pieces for them to envoke the same tropes...


Same naturally goes for the other threads of the same ilk we see floating around.
 
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Falcon said:
Wasn't Irene Adler the only woman to have outwitted Sherlock Holmes?
She was...and a Jersey Girl at that.

Finn said:
...I find drawing some of these similarities to Raiders pretty blatant reaching.
Everyone brings their own baggage to the conversation...
Finn said:
After all, there does not need to be a conscious connection between two media pieces for them to evoke the same tropes...
Agreed, though not my intention, an interesting tangent. The object is to identify multiple common "tropes" and start thoughtful conversation. It ultimately is a challenge to express the tropes as they apply as specifically as you can to the two subjects. In this case, and the others you see floating around: Indiana Jones...we could be posting what we "8" instead!

Plus, it's fun.

...even if you thought "Irene's" gender ambiguous, how do you account for Lena Olin?
 
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Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
The object is to identify multiple common "tropes" and start thoughtful conversation.

There's only 36 of them...but I like the 'thoughtful' conversations that follow....

...even if you thought "Irene's" gender ambiguous, how do you account for Lena Olin?

That's not the 'girl' he got, or am I missing something. I was refering to
9th_Gate_Emmanuelle_Seigner.jpg
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Everyone brings their own baggage to the conversation...Agreed, though not my intention, an interesting tangent. The object is to identify multiple common "tropes" and start thoughtful conversation. It ultimately is a challenge to express the tropes as they apply as specifically as you can to the two subjects. In this case, and the others you see floating around: Indiana Jones

Agreed. When you try to find connections, even if they are wildly drawn, you never know what else comes to mind.
And it is far more constructive than discussing what you're eating!
Pale Horse said:
There's only 36 of them...but I like the 'thoughtful' conversations that follow....

That's exactly what I meant.

Maybe it's just not a Scandinavian thing. ;)

But then at least it's not their thing to discuss what they'e eating, either!
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
The object is to identify multiple common "tropes" and start thoughtful conversation.
It's not the pointlessness of the conversation that makes me arch my eyebrows, but the fact that threads like these tend to imply that a completely unrelated media piece X that simply invokes same tropes somehow "rips off" the core comparison material... in this case, Indiana Jones. It gives an especially silly appearance when the said core is far from original in itself.

Such implications are often unintentional, but there nevertheless. So at least we need some serious disclaimers.

Montana Smith said:
Maybe it's just not a Scandinavian thing. ;)
Well, now we have two kinds of cultural blindness implied in this thread...
...since Finns are not Scandinavians.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Finn said:
It's not the pointlessness of the conversation that makes me arch my eyebrows, but the fact that threads like these tend to imply that a completely unrelated media piece X that simply invokes same tropes somehow "rips off" the core comparison material... in this case, Indiana Jones. It gives an especially silly appearance when the said core is far from original in itself.

I see them as quirky similarities, and not always blatant rip-offs.

There, that's the disclaimer. And I'm with Pale Horse, since if things get rough I can make a faster exit with a horse.

Finn said:
Well, now we have two kinds of cultural blindness implied in this thread...

Either that or a big heap of irony... and,

"In common English usage, Finland, Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland are sometimes considered part of Scandinavia." (Encylopedia Britannica) *




* But don't try telling that to a Finn. :)
 
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Pale Horse said:
...am I missing something.
Emmanuelle Seigner looked better in the film, (I followed you), but he definitely "got" Liana Telfer too:

the-ninth-gate-lena-olin1.jpg

Not to be fcked with!

Montana Smith said:
Agreed. When you try to find connections, even if they are wildly drawn, you never know what else comes to mind.
Inspiration through brain stretching, and gets you thinking about Indiana Jones...a far better reason to stop by The Raven.*fart*
Finn said:
...but the fact that threads like these tend to imply that a completely unrelated media piece X that simply invokes same tropes somehow "rips off" the core comparison material... in this case, Indiana Jones.
I don't know if you've read the book, so until I do, I'll liken it to your opinion of WikiLeaks policy...after all Indiana Jones, to my surprise, was referenced by name...in the book. One man's "rip-off" is another's "homage," your assertion that the examples are simply storytelling devices and conventions, while naturally applicable to a story told in any film is a narrow view and hardly inclusive of every example and what is being aspired to. A disclaimer might eliminate the topic of rip-off from being a natural conversational evolution. Queue:
If anyone thinks I'm implying ANY of these movies, intentional or not, are ripping off Indiana Jones, state your case! But for the record: Finn, labeling the content here: "tropes" would be like you lending Andre the Giant your socks!Sure, they're socks, but they wouldn't fit.

Montana Smith said:
I see them as quirky similarities, and not always blatant rip-offs.
...and like Finn points out regarding the nature of Indy himself: influenced.

A faster exit by land or sea?
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I don't know if you've read the book, so until I do, I'll liken it to your opinion of WikiLeaks policy.
I have, and I recall the reference. Please note, that I've not once claimed the participants of this particular discussion are thinking "Club Dumas" or "the Ninth Gate" are a ripoff of Indiana Jones.

However, I've seen it happen before on these tables, somebody starts a topic that takes note of a media piece's similarities to Indiana Jones, and before long, one narrow-minded chap or another enters the thread and thinks he will immortalize himself by stating the false obvious: "what a rip-off".

We could do without such a comment, and this is the very reason I brought this all up, using the term "unintentional implications" and called for a clarifying disclaimer. Let's call it a preventive measure protecting an uneducated individual from the wrath of a mod who hasn't yet had his morning coffee.


To be a wholly another kind of killjoy, there is a serious consideration if the communal fun behind these hidden snides is wearing thin. Some disciplinary measures may be waiting in the pipeline if hiding stuff in the background becomes a habit and not something simply adding a little spice from time to time.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Finn said:
Let's call it a preventive measure protecting an uneducated individual from the wrath of a mod who hasn't yet had his morning coffee.

I do believe that would be known as the FAQ. It grants mods the ultimate plausible deniability to act as Personal Travel Agents...that being there are no uneducated individuals...if they are registered.

















.
 
Finn said:
I find drawing some of these similarites to Raiders pretty blatant reaching.
Finn said:
Same naturally goes for the other threads of the same ilk we see floating around.
Finn said:
It's not the pointlessness of the conversation that makes me arch my eyebrows, but the fact that threads like these tend to imply that a completely unrelated media piece X that simply invokes same tropes somehow "rips off" the core comparison material... in this case, Indiana Jones.
Finn said:
It gives an especially silly appearance when the said core is far from original in itself.

As you put it:Killjoy.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Finn said:
I find drawing some of these similarites to Raiders pretty blatant reaching.



Finn said:
It's not the pointlessness of the conversation that makes me arch my eyebrows, but the fact that threads like these tend to imply that a completely unrelated media piece X that simply invokes same tropes somehow "rips off" the core comparison material... in this case, Indiana Jones.

Surprisingly enough, when a mod states his or her personal opinion, it doesn't mean everybody is forced to agree with it. One can even choose to ignore it without fear of retribution. Just for future reference.

Now, since I never flexed my mod pecs and downright stated threads like these are a no-no, the only one killing your joy is yourself by engaging in this peeing contest instead of coming up with further similarities between Club Dumas and Indiana Jones.
 
The arrogant Villain who remains in the shadows emerging only to incite the hero to action and further his personal agenda succumbs to his smarmy pretensions when his head explodes and he is consumed by flames .:hat:

...metaphorical shadows in Belloq's case.
 
Finn said:
Did I kill this thread now?
If calling it pointless and silly didn't...no I don't think so.
...you're making a fine effort though. If anything you're probably raising it's profile. Controversy tends to do that.
 
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