Why does it have to be Commies?

vaxer

Moderator Emeritus
Re: Villains

Broomhandle Davis said:
Renderking Fisk said:
.. and no body would believe in a French villain these days...

Which days? I'd think currently treacherous French villains would be very in.

Oooh now that is just the smartest thing I have ever heard. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Treacherous Gallic Villains

vaxer said:
Broomhandle Davis said:
Which days? I'd think currently treacherous French villains would be very in.
Oooh now that is just the smartest thing I have ever heard. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
[/B]

Why thank you, but I think the sentiment is fairly universally shared here and surely didn't originate with me alone.

Would you like "more proof"? I mean, more than the receipts?
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Re: Treacherous Gallic Villains

Broomhandle Davis said:
vaxer said:
Broomhandle Davis said:
Which days? I'd think currently treacherous French villains would be very in.
Oooh now that is just the smartest thing I have ever heard. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why thank you, but I think the sentiment is fairly universally shared here and surely didn't originate with me alone.

Would you like "more proof"? I mean, more than the receipts? [/B]

Broom, don't count on it. I doubt that we are all Francophobes like yourself. I really don't think current politics has a place here...
 

vaxer

Moderator Emeritus
Re: Treacherous Gallic Villains

Broomhandle Davis said:
Why thank you, but I think the sentiment is fairly universally shared here and surely didn't originate with me alone.
Would you like "more proof"? I mean, more than the receipts? [/B]

What I can see is that you've been seriously damaged by "recent events". If you want to hate and disrespect then that's your problem, I would advise you to deal with it before it takes you down.
 
Current Politics?

Thought we were talking about villains for a movie set in the '50's...and what would play acceptably to current audiences in that setting.

If you think I said something inappropriate, I think I need "more proof."

If you are raising the issue of characters with a pattern of treacherous villainy, I don't need any more proof.
 

vaxer

Moderator Emeritus
Re: Re: Re: Treacherous Gallic Villains

Broomhandle Davis said:
"More proof," please. [/B]

Broom, you shoud know it by now, we simply can't find proof, maybe because there's nothing to pouve.

But if it's proof your looking for then look at your three last posts. If you hadn't lost sanity, you would be shocked.
 

bob

New member
Wasnt Belloq a sutibly gallic villian?

What else do you want Indy to be confronted with armies or garic swilling mimes playing the accordian?
 
Shocked? No, awed.

bob said:
Wasnt Belloq a suitibly gallic villian?

What else do you want Indy to be confronted with armies or garic swilling mimes playing the accordian?

Well as to an army of Belloqs, "confronting" that army would be difficult since it'd be in constant retreat, making high-minded statements and cutting secret deals, and ultimately selling weapons and intellgence to the other side.

As for Belloq mimes their only gesture would be both hands up and waiting impatiently for someone to come to their rescue in the Eleventh Hour.

No, they might not make good villains at all. Too pathetic. Better to relegate them to the sidelines and to allow them to reminisce about their imagined glories.
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
It's a shame that the Raven is starting to sound like an annoying Yahoo News message board. Next we'll be finding such deeply thought-provoking comments as "liberals suck!" and "No, you war mongers suck!" on here. Let's keep the political commentary out of here.
 
Villains, we are talking about villains

Villains, boys and girls, we are talking about villains. Any story of intrigue requires knowledge of the underlying forces at play. As for politics, what exactly are Communism or National Socialism, but political philosophies? I'm not altogether sure you can divorce politics from villainy and intrigue.

Even Temple of Doom which has no Nazis at all cannot be fully appreciated unless you appreciate the political situation in China in the '30's.

And Lucas/Spielberg were truly prescient in making Belloq a villain.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 05-28-2003 at 12:27 pm]
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

Broomhandle Davis said:

Even Temple of Doom which has no Nazis at all cannot be fully appreciated unless you appreciate the politic situation in China in the '30's.

[Edited by Broomhandle Davis on 05-28-2003 at 12:11 pm]

Hmmm, I don't know. I first saw Temple of Doom when it opened, and I was about ten years old. I didn't know a heck of a lot about Chinese politics of the 1930s (okay, I didn't know a blessed thing about it), but I appreciated the movie a lot more then than I do now. It was a kid's movie, after all.
 
Re: Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

Randy_Flagg said:
It was a kid's movie, after all.
[/B]

The secret of the series is it isn't aimed at kids at all. The '30's serials were aimed at kids. Indiana Jones is not aimed exclusively at kids any more than Star Wars was aimed exclusively at kids.

That is why Indy is fallible and the villains aren't super-villains.
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Re: Re: Re: Villains, we are talking about villains

Broomhandle Davis said:
Randy_Flagg said:
It was a kid's movie, after all.

The secret of the series is it isn't aimed at kids at all. The '30's serials were aimed at kids. Indiana Jones is not aimed exclusively at kids any more than Star Wars was aimed exclusively at kids.

That is why Indy is fallible and the villains aren't super-villains. [/B]

That's very true for Raiders and Last Crusade, but I think less so for Temple of Doom. By including Short Round and Willie, and comic-book-caliber villains (Mola Ram), Temple of Doom seems more kid oriented. That's not a bad thing-- after all, when I was ten, I thought it was far superior to Raiders of The Lost Ark. However, as I got older, I've grown to appreciate Raiders and Last Crusade more, while Temple of Doom seems very kiddie at times.

Of course I still enjoy TOD, just not quite as much as I used to.
 

Huddog

New member
I'm new, so feel free to take all my comments with a grain of sand (but don't take it with too many grains, or you'll never have enough sand to steal the golden idol). I dont really see TOD as a kids flick...true, there are elements there that appeal, but I like to think those inclusions cater more to the "inner child" of most adults. I mean as a Kid, I was in love with the idea of exploration; I still dream of digging in the sands of Egypt, searching for a tomb no ones entered in 4000 years. To me, Indiana Jones takes a dream of my youth, mixes in some villans and a touch of the supernatural to concoct a story that we all wish we had a part in... As for Communists or Nazis or whomever the villan(s) turn out to be, I see them as a function of the storyline; if its good, the villans will work. The Nazis had a huge role in TLC, but to me, the story made the film, the Nazis just made it better. that said, I really hope there are no Communists -:)
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
Welcome aboard Huddog!

You're right, the story is what makes it work. Although many see Last Crusade as a rehash of Raiders, with its Nazi villains, it DID shake things up by adding the father/son relationship.

As for TOD-- like I said, I still enjoy it, but of all the Indy movies, it seems the most kid-oriented to me; kind of in the same way that The Phantom Menace is the most kid-oriented Star Wars film (though TOD is still far better than TPM.) I guess anytime a child has a prominent role in a film, it feels targeted more towards children.
 

bob

New member
I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army
 

Randy_Flagg

Well-known member
bob said:
I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army

Great points, Bob.

Indy taking on the Soviet army would remind me a bit too much of Rambo III. Can you picture the final scene: Indy and Henry are surrounded by Russian tanks. Henry turns to Indy, "What do we do?" Indy replies, "Let's ____ 'em." Nah, doesn't work.

Also, like you said, shooting dozens of Soviet soldiers requires more justification. Shooting Nazis is just fun. Everyone enjoys a dead Nazi.
 

indyjonesandy

New member
Infernal Machine

The reds worked in the game Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Granted the story in the Infernal Machine wasn't that good. Maybe the next one will have a cult in it like in the Temple of Doom .
Anyway Darabont and Lucas will do the right thing and I will love it.
 

eroc

New member
bob said:
I personally dont think that the Soviets/communists would make good villians in the 50's simply because they will be too high tech for Indy. Indy can take out a WWI tank in LC but i would like to see him try to destroy a T-62 which without rocket launchers etc is pretty much unbreakable in a classic Indy chase scene. What is the use of a revolver when there are AK47's around now? And also isnt Indy shooting dozens of Soviet Soldiers going to require a lot more justification justification that Indy movies should not have.

I would like to see some semi-military organisation in Indy IV rather than a full blown army

How about an RPG, Bob?

Plus being set in the cold war, Indy has plenty of justification in killing Soviets. Remember the saying, "Better dead than Red"?
 
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