Hitchcockian Indy V

Indy's brother

New member
This link has a veritable goldmine of ideas, not the least of which is sabotage...

It could be argued that KOTCS already tried to take this angle (intrigue, conspiracy, paranoia, double-crosses) and it didn't work. It was too laborious of a process to explain the hell out of what was going on in the film for some reason. My opinion of the 4th film is fickle at best, but last night I watched it with someone who hadn't seen it, and not only was I bored by the seemingly endless dialogue, but it paled in comparison to his response, which was to fall asleep by the time they got out of Orellana's tomb. While I think that many of the intriguing tropes/plot devices of the Hitchcockian world could be used to great effect in a 5th film, I would think that it would be best utilized as a jumping off point only. Full bore Indy-Hitchcock would be a mess. The cliffhanger aspect (imho) is the life's-blood of this franchise. Getting too cerebral could be a misstep and turn off too many people.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Indy's brother said:
While I think that many of the intriguing tropes/plot devices of the Hitchcockian world could be used to great effect in a 5th film, I would think that it would be best utilized as a jumping off point only. Full bore Indy-Hitchcock would be a mess. The cliffhanger aspect (imho) is the life's-blood of this franchise. Getting too cerebral could be a misstep and turn off too many people.

I think a lot of this is right, and I agree that the Hitchcockian elements should be occasional - probably the second act, primarily. Otherwise it turns into Hitchcock itself or, just as riskily, into <I>From Russia With Love</I>.

And the broader point is that it ought to be not pure Hitchcockian storytelling, but Hitchcock mixed with Indy, just as Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was, for all of its shortcomings, much better than what the Saucermen from Mars approach, leaving out the archaeology and ancient cultures, would have given us. There's a relevant notion upthread:

TheMutt92 said:
I remember a long time when we were discussing potential Indy V plot lines I remember one came up that started with the murder of one of Indy's colleagues, forcing him to go on the run (perhaps with a supernatural artifact, or part of one, in hand), with the murder charges used to cover up the real reason his pursuers are after him. Could fit in very well with the Hitchcock theme.

As much as I like the Scottish castle sequence, I've likewise grown very fond of the notion of actually seeing Indy leading a proper dig, or at any rate simply doing something in the normal call of duty other than teaching class. Working on a dig, conducting lectures, meeting with museum officials...something that gets him out into the field and allows us to skip the stateside university sequence but still get some of that characterization involved, which is unavoidable considering both Ford's age and the character & plot developments we've encountered in the fourth film. Have the curator killed of some museum, or one of Indy's colleagues or rivals who he's engaged on a dig with, or some such. Give us some action in a center of civilization, as in Darabont's "Thin Man" sequence. Have Indy wrongly accused for awhile until he eventually flees into other territory, beyond the reach of whichever governmental agents or otherwise insidious figures suspect him.

And then we get the locales we've become accustomed to.

(As an addendum, it's worth noting that a clipper plane rather like the one in Raiders appears in Hitchcock's <I>Foreign Correspondent</I>, along with an attempted evacuation of said plane by all of its passengers, as in the earlier Raiders draft. It's an extraordinary sequence.)
 
Last edited:

Dr. Gonzo

New member
Attila the Professor said:
Give us some action in a center of civilization, as in Darabont's "Thin Man" sequence. Have Indy wrongly accused for awhile until he eventually flees into other territory, beyond the reach of whichever governmental agents or otherwise insidious figures suspect him.

And then we get the locales we've become accustomed to.

(As an addendum, it's worth noting that a clipper plane rather like the one in Raiders appears in Hitchcock's <I>Foreign Correspondent</I>, along with an attempted evacuation of said plane by all of its passengers, as in the earlier Raiders draft. It's an extraordinary sequence.)
I have to say that the more I think about it, the more I see the Darabont draft having the general "right idea".
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
Attila the Professor said:
As much as I like the Scottish castle sequence, I've likewise grown very fond of the notion of actually seeing Indy leading a proper dig, or at any rate simply doing something in the normal call of duty other than teaching class. Working on a dig, conducting lectures, meeting with museum officials...something that gets him out into the field and allows us to skip the stateside university sequence but still get some of that characterization involved, which is unavoidable considering both Ford's age and the character & plot developments we've encountered in the fourth film. Have the curator killed of some museum, or one of Indy's colleagues or rivals who he's engaged on a dig with, or some such. Give us some action in a center of civilization, as in Darabont's "Thin Man" sequence. Have Indy wrongly accused for awhile until he eventually flees into other territory, beyond the reach of whichever governmental agents or otherwise insidious figures suspect him.

And then we get the locales we've become accustomed to.

Yes. Please.

Attila the Professor said:
(As an addendum, it's worth noting that a clipper plane rather like the one in Raiders appears in Hitchcock's Foreign Correspondent, along with an attempted evacuation of said plane by all of its passengers, as in the earlier Raiders draft. It's an extraordinary sequence.)

Agreed. That often overlooked Hitchcock film has some stunning sequences, the plane evacuation still looking incredible to this day...
 

emtiem

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
As much as I like the Scottish castle sequence, I've likewise grown very fond of the notion of actually seeing Indy leading a proper dig, or at any rate simply doing something in the normal call of duty other than teaching class. Working on a dig, conducting lectures, meeting with museum officials...something that gets him out into the field and allows us to skip the stateside university sequence but still get some of that characterization involved, which is unavoidable considering both Ford's age and the character & plot developments we've encountered in the fourth film. Have the curator killed of some museum, or one of Indy's colleagues or rivals who he's engaged on a dig with, or some such. Give us some action in a center of civilization, as in Darabont's "Thin Man" sequence. Have Indy wrongly accused for awhile until he eventually flees into other territory, beyond the reach of whichever governmental agents or otherwise insidious figures suspect him.

I still think it'd be fun to have Indy leading a field trip of his students. They get into trouble of course, Indy saves them in the opener and then he has to give 'em to Broadbent to take them back Stateside. But yeah; otherwise just doing normal archaeology stuff: although that's what he's doing at the beginning of KOTCS, albeit offscreen.

I do like the idea of him being framed for the murder of one of his rivals, as you say. It'd be fun for everyone to see them as enemies whereas in reality Indy actually wouldn't care or hold a younger guy a grudge; he's too easy-going.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
There seems to be this recurring idea that Indiana Jones is a vehicle to explore different genres since KOTCS came out.....I don't really like this.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
oki9Sedo said:
There seems to be this recurring idea that Indiana Jones is a vehicle to explore different genres since KOTCS came out.....I don't really like this.

I think it's a notion that the beards, and especially Lucas, have revealed themselves to like, pretty much just by putting out KotCS. Operating under the suspicion that the toothpaste isn't going into the tube, I think many of us see this Hitchcockian mode as more attractive than some of the 1950s or 1960s alternatives, especially since it would not need to be too heavy of a gloss.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
oki9Sedo said:
There seems to be this recurring idea that Indiana Jones is a vehicle to explore different genres since KOTCS came out.....I don't really like this.

Attila the Professor said:
I think it's a notion that the beards, and especially Lucas, have revealed themselves to like, pretty much just by putting out KotCS.

It's inescapable that KOTCS was '50s through and through, relying heavily on stereotypes that made the B movies of those times what they were.

Lucas may indeed be the chief culprit, having shown his passion for that period. Whether or not they would get that out of their system before Jones embarks on a potential 1960s is another matter.

Attila the Professor said:
Operating under the suspicion that the toothpaste isn't going into the tube, I think many of us see this Hitchcockian mode as more attractive than some of the 1950s or 1960s alternatives, especially since it would not need to be too heavy of a gloss.

Having shown their hand with the '50s B movie experiment, it might seem odd returning to the '30s and '40s serials for #5. Therefore, moving forwards with a Hitchcock edge is a likely next step. Especially since it also lends itself more to an older lead than the all-out action expected from the serials.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Attila The Professor said:
I think it's a notion that the beards, and especially Lucas, have revealed themselves to like, pretty much just by putting out KotCS. Operating under the suspicion that the toothpaste isn't going into the tube, I think many of us see this Hitchcockian mode as more attractive than some of the 1950s or 1960s alternatives, especially since it would not need to be too heavy of a gloss.

I think it was that Lucas specifically wanted to do an Indy adventure that involved paying homage '50s B-movie sci-fi, rather than anyone wanting the franchise to evolve into something that explores loads of different genres. I think it was just that area that Lucas wanted to explore in addition to the '30s Republic serials. Indeed, Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men from Mars dates back to 1995, when there was no need to make an adventure in the 1950s, they could have made a WW2 one in the '40s if they wanted.

I very much doubt anybody wants to do an Indy blaxploitation film set in the 70s.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
A question: If another Indy is made, set in the late 50s or early '60s, what other sort of genres or types of stories could be exploited besides a Hitchcockian one? Could ANYTHING Lovecraftian or Hammer Horror-ish be worked in? Twilight Zone-ish? What about an Indy story tinged with a classic Western feel?

Any other ideas guys? If we're going to genre mix a bit in a future film...?
 

Indy's brother

New member
Raiders112390 said:
A question: If another Indy is made, set in the late 50s or early '60s, what other sort of genres or types of stories could be exploited besides a Hitchcockian one? Could ANYTHING Lovecraftian or Hammer Horror-ish be worked in? Twilight Zone-ish? What about an Indy story tinged with a classic Western feel?

Any other ideas guys? If we're going to genre mix a bit in a future film...?

According to wikipedia:

The first entirely Italian western movie was Il terrore dell'Oklahoma (1959), directed by Mario Amendola.

Why not mash up some spaghetti western brushstrokes, set in Italy? with a hitchcockian twist to it? Mashed up with Indy's established sensibilities, I could see it working.
 
Top