Kingdom #1 on Total Film 50 most disappointing list

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 2, 2012

Henry W Jones said:
I respect your opinion but I have to say, while the raft in TOD is far-fetched, the rubber tree looked corny while the raft scene looked cool. Unbelievable, yes, but cool.

Also, and I am asking out of curiosity, what about the concept of a guy swinging through the jungle with monkey that long of a stretch seem good even in concept?

The rubber tree used to bother me, it doesn't really anymore. But I agree, it's how its shot that is the problem. Both the raft over the cliff and the rubber tree were shot poorly, IMO. At least the rubber tree had a cool payoff knocking some Commies off!

The swinging scene...when compared to the actual shot we got...it could've been done alot better. It's not a horrid concept but that's what it turned out looking like. Do I like the concept? Nah. But I also don't like the concept of Indy impersonating a Scotsman but I don't let it bother me. It's all in how it's shot and the monkey scene was shot in the worst way possible, IMO. I tolerate it now or just look away when it's on!

Recently I was over at someone's home and they had this film on and it was during the jungle chase; they didn't even flinch or go 'Wtf?' at that scene. Nobody I know does and I avoid saying anything about it...the less attention drawn to it the better!

I would've had Mutt get caught by a vine like the scene already is, but instead is thrown onto the ground and have Marion nearly miss him. She picks him up and they head off to find Indy. That would've let Indy drive along the cliff w/ Spalko and would've given us an explanation of where Marion went in between her altercation with Spalko and the ant scene. Best of all, the monkey scene = avoided and my eyes would be spared the Spalko-fication that that scene brought!

Oh, my last flaw; tension is noexistent for the most part. If they couldn't reshoot certain scenes to make them more tense, then tense music could've helped.

But yeah, contrary to what some may think I've got my complaints and I'm no kiss-ass to any Indy film as you can see. Except for 'Raiders'.

Toht's Arm · Sep 2, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
-Sand pit scene wasn't really needed.

As a quick aside, can I just say that I LOVE this scene?

I don't like it on paper - using the snake as a rope should have been awful - but you know what sells it for me? Harrison Ford. His comic timing and delivery in this scene is perfect. When he switched into teacher mode in explaining why it isn't quicksand - hilarious. The way he says, in his desperation, that he thinks he can feel the bottom with his feet - gets me every time.

It's testament to his abilities as an actor. Another couple of (non-Indy examples) - the SAS raid in Patriot Games, where his facial expression carries the whole scene, and in Presumed Innocent, where (after the awfully awkward sex scene) he cries as his wife berates him for feeling sorry for the woman he had an affair with...

Apologies for being a little off-topic. But Harrison is awesome.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 2, 2012

Toht's Arm said:
As a quick aside, can I just say that I LOVE this scene?

I don't like it on paper - using the snake as a rope should have been awful - but you know what sells it for me? Harrison Ford. His comic timing and delivery in this scene is perfect. When he switched into teacher mode in explaining why it isn't quicksand - hilarious. The way he says, in his desperation, that he thinks he can feel the bottom with his feet - gets me every time.

I don't mind the scene, it was just not needed IMO. I do get a kick out of it though and it got alot of laughs in the theater.

Harrison does sell it good, too.

Mickiana · Sep 3, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
Bad bits = always subjective/opinion.[/FONT][/B]

Same for the good bits. When I say "hate" I don't mean coming out-guns blazing type of hate, but a more mild hate, like "Why the f**k didn't they make a decent movie?! It's got to be judged by its highs and lows and its got so many lows that the good is tarnished by them. It is a luxury to criticise it, but we are in a luxurious position. We are 'fans' (isn't the term 'fan' derived from 'fanatic'?), so in a way it is our duty to pull it apart to analyse and criticise and boy oh boy does CS need some serious criticism.

AndyLGR · Sep 3, 2012

I think KOTCS is a 'worthy' number one for this poll. I can't remember looking forward to a film so much and coming away feeling so let down by it. Personally speaking the flaws within this one are so much more than those that may be present in the previous 2 Indy movies, (Jonesy listed most of them so well earlier in this thread). But story wise, character wise, script wise it just did not match up to the other movies at all.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 3, 2012

AndyLGR said:
But story wise, character wise, script wise it just did not match up to the other movies at all.

I disagree, respectfully. I think it matched up perfectly. Let's be fair; these films aren't Shakespeare in story nor are they character driven stories. I watch them for a good entertaining time. If I want to talk about flaws, I could make a long list for any of them except for 'Raiders'.

'Kingdom' is still my 2nd favorite by a long shot.
:hat:

kongisking · Sep 4, 2012

Henry W Jones said:
I respect your opinion but I have to say, while the raft in TOD is far-fetched, the rubber tree looked corny while the raft scene looked cool. Unbelievable, yes, but cool.

Also, and I am asking out of curiosity, what about the concept of a guy swinging through the jungle with monkey that long of a stretch seem good even in concept?

I actually really don't get the hatred of this moment. It's unabashedly silly and campy, sure, but I recognize and respect it for what it's meant to be: a nice little tribute to the acrobatics of Errol Flynn, whom they were also trying to emulate with the whole swordfight. And does the CG really look that bad, in all honesty? I suspect a little CGI-bias going on with the people that dislike this moment in particular.

As I've said before, I don't mind the CGI, bad or good, because I consider it merely a tool to bring to life fantastical sequences like the jungle chase. And the fact that it's sub-par and obvious actually adds to the B-movie-esque charm of the film, and Indiana Jones was always meant to be a higher-quality B-movie. So, therefore, for me it works.

Rocket Surgeon · Sep 5, 2012

kongisking said:
I actually really don't get the hatred of this moment. It's unabashedly silly and campy, sure, but I recognize and respect it for what it's meant to be: a nice little tribute to the acrobatics of Errol Flynn, whom they were also trying to emulate with the whole swordfight. And does the CG really look that bad, in all honesty? I suspect a little CGI-bias going on with the people that dislike this moment in particular.

As I've said before, I don't mind the CGI, bad or good, because I consider it merely a tool to bring to life fantastical sequences like the jungle chase. And the fact that it's sub-par and obvious actually adds to the B-movie-esque charm of the film, and Indiana Jones was always meant to be a higher-quality B-movie. So, therefore, for me it works.

I have to give it to you, that you find it unabashedly silly and campy is an observation I can agree with. I marvel that you can accept it (the campy-ness, in terms of length and frequency) without cringing...but you continue to defend it and I'm left to accept that there are undoubtedly some fans out there who gravitate to and revel in this stuff.

Growing up with Raiders and Co. there are parts that I liked but as my tastes changed I just shook my head at, but those parts that made the films great I still feel the same about.

I know you're young, (relatively) and though I appreciate your dogged defense I can't help but wonder how long you'll see, for instance, Mutt's Tarzan swing positively.

My first response to Indy swinging out to Jock's plane was disappointment, because I wanted a grand cinematic event, but I have to say it didn't last long, because it grounded Indy and set a tone which I appreciate more every time I see it.

Indy swinging out, landing clumsily IS Indiana Jones, ( the character and the tone).

Mutt swinging through the jungle with his monkey army to a car chase IS Crystal Skull...and its exactly that tone that people shudder and shirk off.

The converse of my love for Indy's swing is Mutt's and they grow each day.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 5, 2012

Good post, Rocket.

kongisking · Sep 6, 2012

Rocket Surgeon said:
I have to give it to you, that you find it unabashedly silly and campy is an observation I can agree with. I marvel that you can accept it (the campy-ness, in terms of length and frequency) without cringing...but you continue to defend it and I'm left to accept that there are undoubtedly some fans out there who gravitate to and revel in this stuff.

Growing up with Raiders and Co. there are parts that I liked but as my tastes changed I just shook my head at, but those parts that made the films great I still feel the same about.

I know you're young, (relatively) and though I appreciate your dogged defense I can't help but wonder how long you'll see, for instance, Mutt's Tarzan swing positively.

My first response to Indy swinging out to Jock's plane was disappointment, because I wanted a grand cinematic event, but I have to say it didn't last long, because it grounded Indy and set a tone which I appreciate more every time I see it.

Indy swinging out, landing clumsily IS Indiana Jones, ( the character and the tone).

Mutt swinging through the jungle with his monkey army to a car chase IS Crystal Skull...and its exactly that tone that people shudder and shirk off.

The converse of my love for Indy's swing is Mutt's and they grow each day.

Well, I definitely aint promising that I'll like it forever. I'm just saying that for now, it really doesn't bother me much. And it's not that I gravitate towards that sort of camp; it's just that I don't get super-worked up over it, that's all. I tend to either ignore or forgive the flaws of films and focus on the virtues, which results in me often liking films that others despise. Whether or not that's smart, to simply dismiss a film's bad points, is up for debate. A debate I'm fully willing to explore with you, if you're up for it, Rocket.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 6, 2012

Over time, if I'm fond of a film I tend to look less and less at what I DON'T like/love about it. Early on is when I get the critiques out of my system.

AndyLGR · Sep 7, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
I disagree, respectfully. I think it matched up perfectly. Let's be fair; these films aren't Shakespeare in story nor are they character driven stories. I watch them for a good entertaining time. If I want to talk about flaws, I could make a long list for any of them except for 'Raiders'.

'Kingdom' is still my 2nd favorite by a long shot.

I'm not suggesting the Indy movies are character driven, and I respect its one of your favourites of the series, but I didn't care for the characters in the story with Indy and wondered in some cases why they were even there. The relationships between them had zero spark, there was nothing to hang on too. They seemed to just cram as many characters in as possible to go along for the ride

Compare that to the chemistry between Marion and Indy in the original, Indy and Sallah, Indy and Brody, Indy and his dad, these may be action/adventure movies but I think the bond between these characters was clear to see and it comes out of the screen at you (or at least for me anyway). They made me have a vested interest in them. There was nothing like that in KOTCS for me. It was very poorly handled imo, whether thats through poor performances or poor story is debatable. I'd even go so far as to say that Indy and Willie had more spark in them.

kongisking said:
I actually really don't get the hatred of this moment. It's unabashedly silly and campy, sure, but I recognize and respect it for what it's meant to be: a nice little tribute to the acrobatics of Errol Flynn, whom they were also trying to emulate with the whole swordfight. And does the CG really look that bad, in all honesty? I suspect a little CGI-bias going on with the people that dislike this moment in particular.

As I've said before, I don't mind the CGI, bad or good, because I consider it merely a tool to bring to life fantastical sequences like the jungle chase. And the fact that it's sub-par and obvious actually adds to the B-movie-esque charm of the film, and Indiana Jones was always meant to be a higher-quality B-movie. So, therefore, for me it works.

KOTCS seems to be on a totally different level to the other 3 in terms of its silliness and campness (is that a word). It may be evident in the other 3, but arguably not as prevelant or childish in places. It reminds me of the terrible humour they added to The Phantom Menace and then claimed the original trilogy had that level of humour too.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 7, 2012

AndyLGR said:
I'm not suggesting the Indy movies are character driven, and I respect its one of your favourites of the series, but I didn't care for the characters in the story with Indy and wondered in some cases why they were even there. The relationships between them had zero spark, there was nothing to hang on too. They seemed to just cram as many characters in as possible to go along for the ride

Compare that to the chemistry between Marion and Indy in the original, Indy and Sallah, Indy and Brody, Indy and his dad, these may be action/adventure movies but I think the bond between these characters was clear to see and it comes out of the screen at you (or at least for me anyway). They made me have a vested interest in them. There was nothing like that in KOTCS for me. It was very poorly handled imo, whether thats through poor performances or poor story is debatable. I'd even go so far as to say that Indy and Willie had more spark in them.

Sorry, I was only ever invested in Indy/Marion and Indy/Father. I never felt much for the other characters. In TLC he had a posse with him, I could've done without that. In TOD, he had a screaming bimbo and a kid with him the entire film. At least in TLC and KOTCS he worked alone or just with one other for a good portion of the film/most of the film.

I respect your position, though.

AndyLGR said:
KOTCS seems to be on a totally different level to the other 3 in terms of its silliness and campness (is that a word). It may be evident in the other 3, but arguably not as prevelant or childish in places. It reminds me of the terrible humour they added to The Phantom Menace and then claimed the original trilogy had that level of humour too.

Sherpa getting hit by a sledgehammer?
Chilled Monkey-Brains?
"Love You" eyelids?
Indy falling down stairs yelling "daaaaaaaad!"
Henry Sr. shooting their own plane?
Nazis falling into the pond after getting tripped by a motorcycle via Three Stooges style?
"Dad?" "What?" "Dad?!" "What?" "DAD!" "WHAT?!"
"Is there a phone?! I NEED A PHONE!"
"How does one get off this thing?!" -"Whercsh Markus??"
Thuggee dropping the rock on his own head?
Monkey giving the 'Heil'?
Short Round and Willie air-punching?
Grinning like morons at Nazi lady in secret room?
Willie running around the jungle scene?
"No ticket!"
Rhino horn through the crotch followed by "Holy smokes!"
Chinese guy pulling the couple going in the air?
Entire finding the diamond/antidote sequence?

VS;

Indy falling off the rocket sled?
Mutt getting hit by the plants?
Sandpit scene?
Tearing the whole in Indy's pants?

That's pretty much the gist of the dumb humor moments. You won't find me defending the monkeys, though. But to say KOTCS contained more silly camp dumb humor is flat out untrue.

AndyLGR · Sep 7, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
Sorry, I was only ever invested in Indy/Marion and Indy/Father. I never felt much for the other characters. In TLC he had a posse with him, I could've done without that. In TOD, he had a screaming bimbo and a kid with him the entire film. At least in TLC and KOTCS he worked alone or just with one other for a good portion of the film/most of the film.

I respect your position, though.

Sherpa getting hit by a sledgehammer?
Chilled Monkey-Brains?
"Love You" eyelids?
Indy falling down stairs yelling "daaaaaaaad!"
Henry Sr. shooting their own plane?
Nazis falling into the pond after getting tripped by a motorcycle via Three Stooges style?
"Dad?" "What?" "Dad?!" "What?" "DAD!" "WHAT?!"
"Is there a phone?! I NEED A PHONE!"
"How does one get off this thing?!" -"Whercsh Markus??"
Thuggee dropping the rock on his own head?
Monkey giving the 'Heil'?
Short Round and Willie air-punching?
Grinning like morons at Nazi lady in secret room?
Willie running around the jungle scene?
"No ticket!"
Rhino horn through the crotch followed by "Holy smokes!"
Chinese guy pulling the couple going in the air?
Entire finding the diamond/antidote sequence?

VS;

Indy falling off the rocket sled?
Mutt getting hit by the plants?
Sandpit scene?
Tearing the whole in Indy's pants?

That's pretty much the gist of the dumb humor moments. You won't find me defending the monkeys, though. But to say KOTCS contained more silly camp dumb humor is flat out untrue.

Interesting viewpoints on the character relationships. I think watching Indy with Sallah or Brody makes you buy in to the fact they are long time friends and they have mutual respect for each other.

I totally agree on the posse in TLC, this is one of my big gripes with KOTCS, too many people on the quest vying for screen time and its too muddy and doesn't work (imo anyway).

Interesting list too. A lot of what you mention from first 3 I find as either genuinely funny, scenes that I've never thought of being too detrimental or that I've never even classed as overly camp comedic moments, those being:

ROFTLA
"Love You" eyelids?
Monkey giving the 'Heil'?

TOD
Chilled Monkey-Brains?
Entire finding the diamond/antidote sequence?

TLC
Indy falling down stairs yelling "daaaaaaaad!"
Grinning like morons at Nazi lady in secret room?
Henry Sr. shooting their own plane?
Nazis falling into the pond after getting tripped by a motorcycle
Rhino horn through the crotch followed by "Holy smokes!"

Obviously we have different views on what classed as the dumbed down humour and campness, but for me in KOTCS theres much more in heavier dollops and it seems to pervade it even through a lot of the scenes too, mostly in the last half. I have no idea why I find it more invasive in KOTCS than any other Indy movie. Maybe its because I was younger when I saw the originals and I've grown up with that? Maybe its because KOTCS has a lot more elements I really dislike too? Maybe its because it actually is a much more camp movie overall and is a more dumbed down version that say the first 2 Indy movies? To me Indiana Jones movies start with Raiders and although not taking itself too seriously, it still seems a serious action/adventure movie to me, with a few elements of humour. Its certainly not what KOTCS is.

But off the top of my head (without sitting down and watching it again) in terms of its humour this is what I found particularly grating in KOTCS:

Prairie Dogs
Fridge
The diner fight scene has a slapstick feel
Marion and Indys argument/meeting in the campsite
The whole quicksand scene
Marion/Indys argument in the back of the truck
The whole time Mutt is fencing (in particular Marions coaching)
Monkies (it goes without saying)
The Whole waterfall scene

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 7, 2012

AndyLGR said:
Interesting viewpoints on the character relationships. I think watching Indy with Sallah or Brody makes you buy in to the fact they are long time friends and they have mutual respect for each other.

I totally agree on the posse in TLC, this is one of my big gripes with KOTCS, too many people on the quest vying for screen time and its too muddy and doesn't work (imo anyway).

Interesting list too. A lot of what you mention from first 3 I find as either genuinely funny, scenes that I've never thought of being too detrimental or that I've never even classed as overly camp comedic moments, those being:

ROFTLA
"Love You" eyelids?
Monkey giving the 'Heil'?

TOD
Chilled Monkey-Brains?
Entire finding the diamond/antidote sequence?

TLC
Indy falling down stairs yelling "daaaaaaaad!"
Grinning like morons at Nazi lady in secret room?
Henry Sr. shooting their own plane?
Nazis falling into the pond after getting tripped by a motorcycle
Rhino horn through the crotch followed by "Holy smokes!"

Obviously we have different views on what classed as the dumbed down humour and campness, but for me in KOTCS theres much more in heavier dollops and it seems to pervade it even through a lot of the scenes too, mostly in the last half. I have no idea why I find it more invasive in KOTCS than any other Indy movie. Maybe its because I was younger when I saw the originals and I've grown up with that? Maybe its because KOTCS has a lot more elements I really dislike too? Maybe its because it actually is a much more camp movie overall and is a more dumbed down version that say the first 2 Indy movies? To me Indiana Jones movies start with Raiders and although not taking itself too seriously, it still seems a serious action/adventure movie to me, with a few elements of humour. Its certainly not what KOTCS is.

But off the top of my head (without sitting down and watching it again) in terms of its humour this is what I found particularly grating in KOTCS:

Some counterparts to the scenes you mentioned.

Prairie Dogs = Animals in the Camp Scene.
Fridge = Raft Out of the Plane
The diner fight scene has a slapstick feel = Sorry, that's a bit too subjective.
Marion and Indys argument/meeting in the campsite = Henry/Indy arguing in front of the Nazis.
The whole quicksand scene = Temple Campfire Scene
Marion/Indys argument in the back of the truck = Henry/Indy arguing (actually inspired the scene).
Marion Coaching = Willie encouraging Indy to punch the Thuggee whilst punching the air.
The Whole waterfall scene = Raft off of cliff into river and the following dialogue.

I'm not saying you shouldn't find those scenes you like entertaining, but your premise was that there was more of it in KOTCS, and I listed all the cheap humor/silly scenes in the first three as a retort; and if you have to say "But I like those," then that's fine but that also means that they were still present and that you're arguing a subjective point.

The tone of KOTCS in the entire first half of the film is in line with the more serious parts in TLC. Quite devoid of humor.

And I think you hit the nail on the head; you were younger. When a long time awaited film goes into theaters, hardcore fans have a set of obstacles set for that film to navigate and if it does, then it's a good film. I've seen some fans write that the minute they saw a prairie dog, they checked out and decided it sucked. That's what they actually said. Fans LOOK for red flags to confirm their worst fears. I know I did.

You were more accepting of the humor as a kid than you are now. The sore thumbs stuck out to me in TOD/TLC quite a bit when I saw them because I wasn't a kid, I saw them in my late teens but the flaws and such smooth out over time as I get used to them. KOTCS hasn't had the time to have the flaws some fans see in it smooth out. Fans get to hung up on what it isn't and eventually that passes like it has with TOD.

Rocket Surgeon · Sep 7, 2012

kongisking said:
Well, I definitely aint promising that I'll like it forever. I'm just saying that for now, it really doesn't bother me much. And it's not that I gravitate towards that sort of camp; it's just that I don't get super-worked up over it, that's all. I tend to either ignore or forgive the flaws of films and focus on the virtues, which results in me often liking films that others despise. Whether or not that's smart, to simply dismiss a film's bad points, is up for debate. A debate I'm fully willing to explore with you, if you're up for it, Rocket.

I'm here!

I guess the place to start is your penchant for ignoring or forgiving the flaws of films and focusing on the virtues.

What flaw would Skull have had to have to make it hard to impossible for you to ignore?

A section where they all turn into South Park cut-outs?

Stoo · Sep 7, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
You were more accepting of the humor as a kid than you are now. The sore thumbs stuck out to me in TOD/TLC quite a bit when I saw them because I wasn't a kid, I saw them in my late teens but the flaws and such smooth out over time as I get used to them. KOTCS hasn't had the time to have the flaws some fans see in it smooth out.

This isn't the 1st time you've said that. Why have you been lying about your age lately?

These past few years were your late teens because you were 15 when "Crystal Skull" came out. :gun:

Dr.Jonesy said:
I don't own one piece of merchandise, and I never went to see an Indy film more than once or twice. Or any film in a franchise for that matter.

What a bunch of bull. You do own merchandise and the only Indy movie release you were alive for was "Kingdom", which you saw at least *3* times. At the AMC marathon this month, it'll be yet another viewing (4th or more) and you plan on wearing a "Kingdom" T-shirt to the event. Last week in another thread, you even wrote that you go see certain movies "usually more than once". Please, BE REAL.

AndyLGR · Sep 7, 2012

Dr.Jonesy said:
Some counterparts to the scenes you mentioned.

Prairie Dogs = Animals in the Camp Scene.
Fridge = Raft Out of the Plane
The diner fight scene has a slapstick feel = Sorry, that's a bit too subjective.
Marion and Indys argument/meeting in the campsite = Henry/Indy arguing in front of the Nazis.
The whole quicksand scene = Temple Campfire Scene
Marion/Indys argument in the back of the truck = Henry/Indy arguing (actually inspired the scene).
Marion Coaching = Willie encouraging Indy to punch the Thuggee whilst punching the air.
The Whole waterfall scene = Raft off of cliff into river and the following dialogue.

I'm not saying you shouldn't find those scenes you like entertaining, but your premise was that there was more of it in KOTCS, and I listed all the cheap humor/silly scenes in the first three as a retort; and if you have to say "But I like those," then that's fine but that also means that they were still present and that you're arguing a subjective point.

Of course its all subjective and we see and appreciate different things. I don?t theres any comparison between Marion coaching and Willie shadow boxing. The fencing scene is cheesy in the extreme, culminating in the monkey swinging too. You mention the raft scene twice, do you find it that bad? But in many of the scenes I mentioned in KOTCS the additional dialogue and interaction within those scenes seems so out of character, Indys reaction to Marion in the camp and there argument was so clunky. Nothing like the sparks we saw in Raiders, Marion had changed beyond any recognition and I felt she had no place in the film. The quicksand scene again was pointless and was such a clunky introduction between father and son it was embarrassing.

Dr.Jonesy said:
The tone of KOTCS in the entire first half of the film is in line with the more serious parts in TLC. Quite devoid of humor.

Agreed yet I felt TLC is much a more interesting film.

Dr.Jonesy said:
And I think you hit the nail on the head; you were younger. When a long time awaited film goes into theaters, hardcore fans have a set of obstacles set for that film to navigate and if it does, then it's a good film. I've seen some fans write that the minute they saw a prairie dog, they checked out and decided it sucked. That's what they actually said. Fans LOOK for red flags to confirm their worst fears. I know I did You were more accepting of the humor as a kid than you are now. The sore thumbs stuck out to me in TOD/TLC quite a bit when I saw them because I wasn't a kid, I saw them in my late teens but the flaws and such smooth out over time as I get used to them. KOTCS hasn't had the time to have the flaws some fans see in it smooth out. Fans get to hung up on what it isn't and eventually that passes like it has with TOD.

I was 16 when I saw TLC in cinemas on its release. And I saw ROTLA and TOD in 84. I still believe KOTC tries (and fails) to be more humourous than the other 3. To my mind it tries to dumb the whole thing down even more than TLC I thought, complete with awkward character interactions. But ultimately I think what makes it so disappointing is that the rest of the story is poor in comparison to the other 3. If the humour as it stands was surrounded by a decent story and an interesting film, (like I feel the other 3 are), then it probably wouldn?t be an issue. But theres no one factor that tipped me over to disliking it, it?s the whole package that doesn?t stand up as a really good film. I found it so disappointing overall. I didn?t like the story, the macguffin, the lack of scope the character interaction, the humour, the messy handling of Marion and Mutt, characters that meant nothing like Ox and Mac. They should of cut the number of characters down that go on the adventure, it seems to be increasing with each film to ridiculous levels. Yes there were some pluses, like Harrison, the warehouse fight, the bike chase???.. but I?m struggling after that. I so wanted to like it and have watched it many times since.

Dr.Jonesy · Sep 7, 2012

Stoo, I'm so glad you're this interested in me to the point where you've memorized everything I write.

Find something more to do with your time and I'd hardly call a T-Shirt "owning merchandise".

Mickiana · Sep 7, 2012

We know opinions are subjective, which is why we have to try and go beyond opining. This is where criticism comes in. Criticism doesn't try to laud itself as objectivity but it requires adept ability at analysis and argument. Criticism, as in 'critiquing', utilises an appreciation of aesthetics, intellectual understanding and wisdom. When someone wants to highlight the merits and demerits of a piece of work through an explanation that strives for logic then this is criticism.
I know previously I have said I feel hate for CS, but a better way to put it is to simply say, "I am disappointed in the perceived flaws in CS on different levels, especially in comparison to its predecessors" and then go on to enumerate those flaws and to present a case as to my views. This is not "hating" as some like to term it, but rather it is a sign of love. We love the world of Indiana Jones and wish to devote some of our energies to appreciation of the elements within.. Criticism is saying, "Something is like...." That is all we have to go on.

Kingdom #1 on Total Film 50 most disappointing list

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