Originally posted by Renderking Fisk Like McFly notes, Lee's got some lead-time problems. If you're too lazy to bash you're own lid, I can imagine you're too lazy to wait half a year or more for a new lid in the first place.
End your suffering and get an Akubra.
If this was aimed at me..... I feel like I need to say that I have no confidence in bashing a hat whatsoever, let alone cutting it and sanding the sides and what not as described in that tutorial to get the Akubra to match Indy's hat. I would, in all honesty, prolly screw it up and there goes a $100 down the crapper. For an extra $40 I can get one that looks perfect and not worry about ruining the hat. So, I think I can wait for it to arrive.......
Well I'm planning on getting round to checking out the HJ Fedoras after my summer holiday (much needed!)
How old is the info about the HJ Fedora quality going down hill?
Certainly HJ don't do the original style of hat that they provided for the films, but HJ got taken over by by a company called 'Swaine, Adeney, Brigg' who are a glove & whip manufacturer (they made the mini-whip for the young Indy in LC) sometime in the last 10 years & are now a subsidary department of SAB.
Like I say, that was in the last 10 years & I don't know of any recent changes to the company.
To all concerned, the Federation is all Ren claims and then some. The bashing is easy, and the stiffener is forgiving. I steamed the dickens out of mine to get the brim right, and each time I screwed up it rolled flat and reshaped with the greatest of ease. A thing of beauty is an Akubra Fed...get one.
Does anyone know if Hatsdirect takes cheques through paypal? I tried linking to the paypal help section to find out since I don't have a credit card but the link doesn't seem to work. I'm hoping to pick up the Akubra Federation.
There are many notions of what makes a good hat. While many seem to prefer the best hat Ren has owned in 20 years, others that have made great hats for 30 years have differing opinions. When you talk about how much stiffener is in a hat then to a professional hatter, the hat is either a western hat or an inferior hat that is stiffened to make it workable for a novice hat wearer. Nothing inferior about any hat that the buyer or wearer of the same hat likes but if you are talking a good hat you are talking a butter soft hat that has little stiffener at all in the crown and just a touch in the brim. If you are talking a great hat then you are talking a sterling beaver hat. While we produce high dollar high end hats and make them available to the public at large in all countries in the world, our good friend Steve Delk is opening his own hat shop and is advertising quality hats at prices far less than ours.
While we have no qualms about any brand of hat, I think fairness should allow us to say that what many IJ fans have grown to know as a good hat is what many hatters would not sell for any price nor would they have them to give away. Again that is not to say if the hat fits ( your needs do not wear it) but it is to say there are hats and then there are good hats. When I read that 100.00 is a high price for a hat I have to wonder what is this based on when houses cost 150,000- 1 million and more an cars 20,000.00 and more or 50 gallons of gas is 100 dollars and will last for a couple weeks and yet a hat of quality will last several generations.
Our hats come with a life time guarantee and yet will last many generations after the wearer is gone.
We pay more than 100 dollars for our least expensive fur felt body that a hat is made from. From there we add another 25.00 of component parts and then will spend 10 days making the hat.
This is a custom hand made hat. If you are wondering why Mr Keppler is 9 months waiting it may be because he too is a professional hatter. All the hatters I know of in the USA that do any Western hats as their main stay are at least 6 weeks to 6 months in a rears. We regularly stay 3- 6 weeks behind our selves. There is a huge difference in a hat that is preblocked and full of stiffener and a hat that is custom made to fit your exact head shape and size and not any one else's.
I hope this may answer some of the concerns about hats and differences and not stir up a bundle of problems .
Thank You for the Welcome VP. Along with your request for civility.
Assuming that Sir_Winston will be reading this as well I wanted to address his concerns:
I was wondering what is about an average or good price for a fedora... on the whole.
I think the fairness or goodness of price depends greatly on the need or want and type of hat that fills that desire of yours.
I understand that hats direct offers their mule tough hats for around 100-125.00 USD and that is certainly a good price for a hat. how ever you ask about a good price for a Fedora. While an IJ hat certainly is in the Fedora category as is most any hat now a days due to the lose definition of a Fedora that was established 100's of years ago and has evolved as so many things.
I think if you are seeking a very good Fedora that is commercially produced then you may expect to pay from about 150- 250.00 for it. If you are seeking a custom creation that is specific to your every need and desire and is built to fit a mold that is made in advance of the hat that is a replica of your exact head shape and you want the materials in the hat to be of a superior grade to what you will find in any commercially produced hat and meet the rigorous specification of even the US Military, then you can still find this type of hat in shame shops for around the 200.00 dollar mark. I know we offer hats like this with a life time guarantee attached to them. On the other hand if you are looking for the ultimate hat in a sterling beaver made from the very select belly hair from the beaver that is converted to fur felt then you will usually pay 500-1000 or more dollars for such a hat with full amenities and all the customer care that will go into it.
My suggestion is that people with less needs get a less hat and people with a refined learning of superlative hats that also have budget to support their desires may seek to commission such bespoke creations that are specific to them and learn to lavish in the pampering you may well learn to love.
We have supplied both the inexpensive wool and fur felt official Indiana Jones hats on up to what folks that never watched the move call an IJ hat right on up to hats that fans of 14 years experience of seeking the perfect hat,have actually discontinued their search from and began to live the rest of their lives as they fell we have produced the hat they always sought.
What is a fair or good price? Well for one fan I know it was 13 years of searching and 1 year of anticipation and he would swear that it could not be counted in money. For us as professional hatters our fairness is counted at about 5 dollars an hour if you count he minutes we put into every hat we create.
Some things in life are not counted in coins but counted in love of what you do or what you want. When if comes to basing items of love on a monetary basis then surly the least expensive may well be the best.
Originally posted by 007 If this was aimed at me..... I feel like I need to say that I have no confidence in bashing a hat whatsoever, let alone cutting it and sanding the sides and what not as described in that tutorial to get the Akubra to match Indy's hat. I would, in all honesty, prolly screw it up and there goes a $100 down the crapper. For an extra $40 I can get one that looks perfect and not worry about ruining the hat. So, I think I can wait for it to arrive.......
007, I understnd your concerns 100% . We have some customers that would not have hat that is styled and others that insist on a styled hat and others yet that go to great lengths to get us to make them a hat and yet have a seasoned Indy fan to style them.
It is just as easy for a seasoned hatter that has blocked a few million hats to say a person that sends a hat of to a pro to be blocked is too lazy to do it.
Not every one has the same skills or inclinations or desires. While I prefer to write my own post , I probably could be a member in good standing on many forums, had I got an eloquent speech writer to make post for me. Fact is I am just a hillbilly hatter that may excel in the area of making a beautiful hat and yet fail so miserably on my writing skills that I actually inflame folks to hate me for it.
I am more than confident that where you choose a hat that is bashed or choose to get one that is not is as personal a privilege as wearing boxers or briefs and one only you can make and should be able to make without ridicule.
if whipmakers were paid per hour then everyone would be making a LOT less then minimum wage. I highly doubt that you spend 555$ worth of time on one hat. Why is it that Steve is able to offer such a quality hat at such low prices and you offer a hat of equal quality for 500$ or more. Ive reblocked a few hats and have tried to re"ferbish" a vintage one using the same processes to make the hats. I think that in the end if all customers made the hats for them selves that they would be saving a bundle. your hat materials only cost you 125$ why are you charging about 380$ for your time? you spend 10 days on 1 hat? how much of that time are you actually touching it? I have spent 2 days straight without sleeping to get a whip perfectly made. And after that its not even done. i still have 8 days to go after that. And i work constantly. I highly doubt that it takes 10 days. i only sell my whips for 145$ because my materials only cost me 60$. Why would anyone want to buy your hat if they can get one cheaper for the same quality, and it holds up like a tank? It just doesnt make sense, why people would strive for cost instead of practicality. Please dont attack me for this gladdhatter. Im just stating my own thoughts and want to remain civil. I dont want to get into a heated fight. I just want to know why pick your hats over someone alses.
if whipmakers were paid per hour then everyone would be making a LOT less then minimum wage. I highly doubt that you spend 555$ worth of time on one hat. I amnot sure how you calculate my time.
Why is it that Steve is able to offer such a quality hat at such low prices and you offer a hat of equal quality for 500$ or more.
That would be a good question for Steve. It certainly is a question he would have to answer as I have no intention of answering for him. I think I may know the answer but do not think it proper for me to answer for my friend. I think if you were to talk to Steve privatly you mayfind some of your answers you seek and possibly learn abot more about me as well.
Ive reblocked a few hats and have tried to re"ferbish" a vintage one using the same processes to make the hats. I am sure there are many processes to make hats and having made them for 30 years I continue to learn new processes all the time but find the old ones serve me best.
I think that in the end if all customers made the hats for them selves that they would be saving a bundle.
Could not agree with you more as the majoirity of hats I have seen are made from 8-12 dollar hat bodies.
your hat materials only cost you 125$ why are you charging about 380$ for your time?
I am not sure whee you get mymaterial cost from but mysterling beaver bodies and hat materials cost just over 425.00 for a hat.
you spend 10 days on 1 hat? how much of that time are you actually touching it? Each hat differs in time required touching it. Much depends on the customers needs or wants. I often times will spend 20 or more hours pouncing a single hat body. Probably a simple hat will require an additional 20 hours of finishing time maybe 15 hours on some. A complex hat may take 50 hours additional time.
I have spent 2 days straight without sleeping to get a whip perfectly made. And after that its not even done. i still have 8 days to go after that. And i work constantly. I highly doubt that it takes 10 days. i only sell my whips for 145$ because my materials only cost me 60$. Why would anyone want to buy your hat if they can get one cheaper for the same quality, and it holds up like a tank?
I am lost here now if you are comparing whips to hats in general your whips to my hats or what youare asking or if you are just trying to compare something to somehthing else.
It just doesnt make sense, why people would strive for cost instead of practicality.
Practicality is a good thing but little of in in america do you not agree. I am sure it would be hard to convince a starving man that a whip is a practical thing to own unless you lived when I did and found you need a whip to keep stubborn mules ploughing th ground or pulling giant mature timber from forrest
Please dont attack me for this gladdhatter. Im just stating my own thoughts and want to remain civil. I dont want to get into a heated fight. I just want to know why pick your hats over someone alses.
Heavens I have no intention of attacking you and I do not reccomend you pick my hats over anothers hats. in fact I have only reccomended you pick Steve Delks hats at all. I fell very comfortable saying that Steve can surly make a hat that pleases you well and I wholly support him in his hat endeavor and wish him the very best and suggest all may give him a try and buy his hats. I am sorry you have misunderstood my intent . I cmae here to talk and not sell hats. thee are plenty of heads to cover all over the world . We hope to cover any head that comes to us to buy a hat but we do not sell hats on chat forums. We sell hats direct to a customer wwhen they contact us to purchase one we try our best to educate them on our hats and find thier needs and sell them the least expensive solution for thier needs.
You have asked me to not attack and I hoe you do not preceive my words as any attact. I will now ask you to consider your words. you have stated bluntlythat you think I am lying about taking 10 days to make hat. You have stated my cost of materils for my hats. I really ask you to think about how bold you are making statments you cnanot possibley know and trying to support them with your knowledge of making whips.
No attack here but using your logic a person making widgets in China could say that GM should sell all cars for 10 cents each because they only spend 1 cent on a widget and only 1 second making it so a car cannot cost but 10 dollars and cannot take more than 5 minutes to make.
Adam you are very kind to inquire about making a hat and to challage me on my skills, methods, time, cost or any thing else is a bit short sighted. I make custom hand made hats of highest quality materials and I use antique tools and methods. I occassionally take on a student and help thiem learn basic hat making and then continue with them as they grow in the business. I am sure you may well know of at least one of the people I have choosen to help.
Thank you for inquiring but I really just came here to talk not to give training nor justify my business practice. Finally I have never found it practical for a single person to make verymany quality hats so I do not do all the touching of a hat as often there is 2 touching it at once in many stages of it. there are also several that touch one of our hats before it is released. I just completed a fairly simple hat yesterday that took nine days. It also took 47 emails and much touching. now it will take about 2 more hours of fluffing up final setting of stlye, packaging properly and then shipping out .
The final email was in part: Wow! The hat looks gorgeous, I can tell by the photos that it really is a blue navy, not a dark navy. The brim looks great at 3 inches, and the ribbon is perfect. It certainly looks like the hat I wanted and could not find. (Or, when I did find something close to it, it was the wrong size.)
thanks for taking your time to type up a long response for me. I highly appericate it. I was not comparing whips to excatly hats, directly, i was saying they are kind of in the same level of how they are sold, such as the hides cost very little but are expensive because of the stressing time it takes. I am just trying to ask more questions because i want to learn more about what this craft is a all about. I should not have been questioning your prices as i know all about the price of hat bodys. Me and steve talked about it a bit a while ago. I would never directly compare a hat to a whip as they are not the same. That would just be stupid. Thanks for the explination. I guess ive just had a faulty impression of you because of the way you have reacted to other forum members in the past.
Adam, you are most welcome. I fear your faulty impression is more as a result of the way forum members have reacted to me in past.
But past is past and so it goes.
As far as hat bodies are concerned I have seen them in past and currently as well available from 6 dollars up to 1200.00 each.
Steve Delk is a fine and upstanding man and I wish him only the very best in his new found hobby or business.
I hope every one that desires an IJ hat of the kind Steve can provide will certainly give him a try .
Hat making is not rocket science is what i tell every one and encourage all to try a reblock or to try making a hat.
I have sold raw materils to some and given it to oters for this very reason. The result is we now have another hatter that may well please all.
Its a good thing.
While I encourage folks to try to make hat or do a reblock or more I also encourage them to not get in over thier heads.
Unfortunatly most hear th first part and assume they know all then and forge out on a wild new adventure of headache and heart ache. To make a hat is a very simple thing . To make a lasting hat business that is anoter story. It seems as simple as constructing the most basic hat. You hen mutiply that time 100 and then compound that with 100 people screaming they want the hat yesterday and Ups lost it and you did not do this right and Imeant to say I wanted it this way and oh its ina card board box and the hat is perfect and just like I wanted and then a week later the brim is too stiff too soft or too wide or too narrow.
Well being in business is not an easy affair . Then you tell folks on a hat forum that you never knew existed before the bottom of you heart truth from 30 years ex-perience and they all attack you as they had heard a different story from an up and comming hatter that has a new and novel way to make hats or some Jhonny come lately ideas and it gets to be a real burden. Then there are good intentioned and goo meaning folks that are simply unlearned but want to sound learned and there are some that want to be in power and act learned and bury thier heads to truth.
It can all be one big pain.
Heck the IJ hats, that have historically suited so many fans here from a dozen companies are hats that old time hatters would have never allowed the body of to enter thier shop.
Its a commercial world and I am proud of men like Steve Delk that have choosen to balk against the established commerialism and try to provide quality afforadable head wear. We tried it 2 years ago when we first re opened and could not sell a hat . We then looked at current market offereings and pricing nad choose to get the ultimate materials and to raise our prices to reflect 80% of the price of our competitors and we then started getting more orders than we can keep up with.
Business is a tricky thing and with computers internet and such it can be a balancing act . I choose to not comform to every whim from every nay sayer and to just provide the best hats I could to any one that bought one and then many may hate you but it will always only be the ones that never own your hat. I donot have customer that would not buy from me again or if I do I do not know of them. I have 2 ex customers that I would not sell to again how ever. Most are good people with good thoughts and some are just bad peolple that no amount of goodness will convert.
Now back to hats and forums . I really sish I had some one with the will to set up a forum where bashing and all forms of talk and argumentative conversation is acceptable. I really do. not this forum or any oter but one that is bare knuckles that will allow folks to get on and speak the truth and not be ashamed to do so.
I have the server space with all the goodies if anyone is interested in setting it up let me know. I personally do not have time nor inclination to do it but I have wasted space and free will and would love too see it. Then I could come here and relaxknowing no one would want to beat up on me here)
You are a great guy but for one time i have to dissagree with you. Do you own any of GH's stuff? how do you know its not fantastic? you arent right about everthing. You wont even give the man a chance. I havent seen what hes done here. I dont think he was even talking to you, was he? i dont mind if you have your own ideas about the way GH acts but can you atleast keep them out of our conversation and to your self so that we can remain in a civil conversation?
Adam, thank you for your very mature stance and attempt to correct the person that is obviously completly out of line. there is nothing here to get in between as Ren and I have nothing between us. You are correct to my knowledge ren does not have any of our products and is not really downing our product but instead only launching personal attacks. I am more than confident he will see the maturity that you and others exercise here and re read th rules of the forum and will want to take the advise of VP. Surly he will wnat to be the first memeber of my Saloon when it opens for such free for all bashing as he is doing but surly he can remain civil here and obey th rules of this forum in the mean time.
Any takers on my offering to open a new forum up that is made specifically for folks with stron opinions like Ren has? I am not wanting to steal any reader from any oter forum and want to actually advertise all the forus on mine but just have a place for folks to get out their true fellings in a place that is mde for it and not do it in a place that clearly is not.
Adam, your age may reflect differently but your attitude and level of maturity certainly speaks loudly of whom is a kid here and whom is not. I am sure all can see you certainly are not the kid . At least you are not the one doing the crying.
"Why is it that Steve is able to offer such a quality hat at such low prices and you offer a hat of equal quality for 500$ or more. "
I heard about this thread and joined up with you folks here at the Raven. Really the above question needs to me answered by me. I am basically not making much money on the hats mentioned. I never went into this venture with the idea of making much money. As with everything else I have done at COW, it is part of my hobby. Being such, it is not my livlihood. With that said, it must also be told that I am not using the same hat bodies as Charlie. His are much more expensive to buy. I am not selling belly beaver, just regular beaver. Also, you gotta figure what it costs to really make custom hats like Charlie. You have to own many hat blocks. I don't have to do this. I am just offering an accurate Indy fedora, handmade, and can get by with just one style of block. If I had to stock 10 styles of hat blocks in all sizes, I would have to charge alot more just to help pay for the investment. Hat making equipment is very, very expensive. Just yesterday, I got some prices on some equipment and it was over 10 grand for the basics. Of course, my business won't be such, that I have to own this sort of thing due to the low volume that I will generate. But, if I had to pump out the hats like most full line hatters, my prices would be right up there with the rest. Charlie is one of the few hatters that will actually help you. He has been of great help to me, even supplying me with bodies to learn on. I can't say enough good words, about him. I own one of his pure belly beaver hats, and it is worth the money. Period. He has the best looking modern felt that I have seen, and I have seen 99 per cent of what is out there. I have seen his finished Indy fedoras, and he has it nailed, even down to the bow. He went to great lengths to supply the first buyers with exactly what they wanted, and probably has not made a dime due to the different blocks he had to find and buying up on liners and sweats that he was not using at the time. I can tell you,he is paying much more for his bodies as he not only offers the Indy fedora, but any, any, sort of hat that you want replicated. And that takes a big investment to do so. He is competitive with all the other hatters. I am the anomoly here(sp?) But, I figured my base of customers would be so small that it would not hurt the other hatters. I am out to provide an accurate Indy fedora at relatively low prices for what they are getting. I think there is a niche for me. If I make a little bit of money in the process, good, I will buy more gear with the profit. I enjoy creating Indy fedoras and that is the only reason I am going into an online company. regards, Steve(Fedora from Cow)
You will be an asset to this board when discussing just about anything from what I have read in the past. Your hat blocks have always been exquisite. It never ceases to amaze me how you could turn the "junk" you had into a great looking Indy hat. I am chomping on the bit waiting for you to get the production line rolling.
The problem is that once the quality, pricing and word of mouth gets out about your Indy hats, you will begin to receive orders for help with non-Indy hats. First a new block, then a ribbon change. Next thing you know you will be a fullblown hat shop. I better hyurry and get my hats while the pricing is low...
Seriously though, it is good to have you aboard. It is nice to see a familiar face...
wow this thread is like an advertisment...is anyone getting paid?
I dunno. I never heard an advertisement that failed to mention the name of the company. I think that is the prime factor in advertising. I was just trying to answer the price differential question. Steve
Originally posted by 007 I really like the Akubra Federation, but I am not going to bash it myself. I have neither the patience nor the skill that is required to do so. I would probably end up making the hat look terrible and then It would just sit in a box....
So my question is.. what are some other good fedora makers out there for around $100?
I bought a Federation and, sure, it's a bit daunting doing your own bash... but it's not rocket science, either. I ended up making the hat look quite good. And doing it yourself gives you a sense of achievement that you can never have when you just buy something or pay someone to do it.
Holy flamboly! i went to the site and the hat was selling for 80 bucks! I don't have that much money. Any body know where I can get one? I have a fedora, but it's tweed, and it looks more like a Sherlock Holmes hat than an Indy hat.