fantasy novel writing dilemma

Okay, so for the last few years (probably several now) I've been trying to get this fantasy novel out of my head and onto paper. It's got all the usual stuff: the callow youth, the princess, the old "wise one," the shady mercenary type, the evil tyrant bent on ruling the land, the strange creatures and exotic lands. I finally completed an initial rough draft about a year ago that's pretty shaky, but hey, that's a rough draft for you, right? The problem is, no matter what I try to do with it, it always just seems like a pale rip-off of STAR WARS, and it's really starting to drive me crazy. Is this all just unavoidable when dealing with these kind of archetypes? I haven't read much fantasy, but I imagine these are characters/situations all very familiar and accepted by fantasy readers, but it still just annoys me that I always seem to keep copying STAR WARS when I write, without even noticing it.

I'm sure I'm not the only aspiring writer out there to write something, then read it and go, "Wait a minute. That's basically [whatever movie title here]." It's really frustrating, especially for me. No matter how hard I try, I seem to only be able to come up with one way to tell a story. And if it's not working, then that's the end of it because I can't think of how else to approach it. And it's hard to just sit there for a long time and think about potentially different ways, because you mind wanders and you never really get anything done.

Filmmaking is going nowhere for me, so I really wanted to get back into writing, and this fantasty idea is one I've had for awhile, and I would give anything to make it work. But I kind of just feel at a lost. Even after I went back and tried to change some things, I still got too much of a STAR WARS vibe.

Any suggestions/comments/anything? This is something that's really been bothering me.

Take one pillar of your story, change it and imagine how that change would alter the overall story. Let's say, for example, you make your "callow youth" or your "hero" a secret scumbag. The "princess" would realise this along the way and have some stark choices to make. Just an example, but alter one aspect and see how it goes...

The fantasy genre is over-saturated.

You said it yourself, "It's got all the usual stuff."

So what do you expect? Don't put in "the usual stuff" because everyone's heard "the usual stuff". Change the characters, the setting, perhaps even the genre; don't settle for "the usual stuff."

And write what you feel. Don't do film/genre worship; that's not honestly you. Be honest with yourself or all you'll end up doing is redoing the things you enjoy rather than the things that honestly compel you.

I've had a similar problem, I guess. I started writing a novel for a day or so and then realized I was unintentionally paraphrasing Fight Club. This one I've been keeping in my head for a while is a bit different...I have certain scenes in mind: an exile in the desert, one (or several) discovering ancient ruins, something like that. I'm thinking I'll connect them, but I've been too busy with schoolwork and music to get it started. But although fantasy's a big influence on my writing, I want to set it in a place distinctly different from your typical swords-and-sorcery setting. I liked how Stephen King was able to combine different genres in his Dark Tower series, so I'll keep that in mind, at least for inspiration.

Michael24 said:

Okay, so for the last few years (probably several now) I've been trying to get this fantasy novel out of my head and onto paper. It's got all the usual stuff: the callow youth, the princess, the old "wise one," the shady mercenary type, the evil tyrant bent on ruling the land, the strange creatures and exotic lands. I finally completed an initial rough draft about a year ago that's pretty shaky, but hey, that's a rough draft for you, right? The problem is, no matter what I try to do with it, it always just seems like a pale rip-off of STAR WARS, and it's really starting to drive me crazy. Is this all just unavoidable when dealing with these kind of archetypes? I haven't read much fantasy, but I imagine these are characters/situations all very familiar and accepted by fantasy readers, but it still just annoys me that I always seem to keep copying STAR WARS when I write, without even noticing it.

I'm sure I'm not the only aspiring writer out there to write something, then read it and go, "Wait a minute. That's basically [whatever movie title here]." It's really frustrating, especially for me. No matter how hard I try, I seem to only be able to come up with one way to tell a story. And if it's not working, then that's the end of it because I can't think of how else to approach it. And it's hard to just sit there for a long time and think about potentially different ways, because you mind wanders and you never really get anything done.

Filmmaking is going nowhere for me, so I really wanted to get back into writing, and this fantasty idea is one I've had for awhile, and I would give anything to make it work. But I kind of just feel at a lost. Even after I went back and tried to change some things, I still got too much of a STAR WARS vibe.

Any suggestions/comments/anything? This is something that's really been bothering me.

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Michael24 your prays have been answered read all of this website:http://www.moongadget.com/origins/index.html I read this 3 years agao and changed my life on how to write a good fantasy/science fiction material. Just like you I have been troubled on how to write fantasy without ripping off Lord of the Rings (because that is the granddaddy of epic fantasy) because all of the story synopsis seem to lead back to Tolkien's works and I wanted to be different because everybody else was being a copycat and not being original at all in novels like: Eragon and the Sword of Shannara. You should also look into Harry Potter and The Dark Tower those have Lord of the Rings elements but does not follow the road too much and becomes there own boss quickly afterwards. My advice is look at other authors you liked and see where they got their ideas from, I'm telling it is an rewarding challenge to do this, since then I feel more confident on the story I'm going to write then I was five years ago.

Wow! That looks like a lot of reading. But thanks for the link, Jones. I'll have to set aside some time to read it all closely.

Another concept I've been told is to take two completely unrelated story ideas you may have and see what happens when you combine them. But sometimes my ideas are so distinct from each other in terms of setting/style, I've yet to make that work. But it's an idea that seems to work great for some.

It's comforting to know someone has the same dilemma. I agree 100% what RA said. Turn the genre up on it's head and write something that's not done so often. You listed a whole bunch of fantasy cliches. My advice? Get rid of them. Retool the situations and characters to get something fresh. Don't scrap the whole thing, but if it mirrors SW everytime you do it, something drastic has to be done.

The story I was working on has so many of the things you listed as well and I'm trying to retool the whole thing. I don't want to touch the characters despite the cliched roles they play. I love them to much to even attempt reworking them. I am changing up the relatinship roles and taking them down much darker, depressing paths. The guy's not getting the girl, and the friendships will be taken to the limit. The world may get saved, but the characters will be questioning if it was worth it. I got these ideas from my personal life. I've been having a rough time lately and have been writing a lot as a form of self-therapy. I guess that's a good thing because it's going into my story!

In addition to the character dynamics, I decided to change the world they live in. Open a history book and turn to places outside of medieval Europe. Mix and mash elements of cultures together until you get something barely recognizable. Look to the religious systems, look at their governments, look at their architecture, look at their military/weapons, etc. Mix and mash these elements up to your liking. That should get you something unique looking in your mind's eye at least.

I wish you the best of luck

try something unusual like having evil triumph at the end. Ive had this problem before writing. It may sound bad but you may want to look into sci fi.its a much broader genre. Fantasy is a little overused. Most new fantasy books are just redos of older fantasy books.not really much help but another option...

anyone interested in writing have a look at this tread. It would be awesome if more people joined in:

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=13042&highlight=serious+book+writing

back onto to this thread. I understand where you're coming from. I've had the same problem wanting to write adventure stories. Always seems to rip off Indy majorly.

Sometimes just changing the point of view can make a huge difference. I once wrote a Star Wars fan novel that I later realized was not only very cheesy fan fiction (not surprisingly), but I even had several characters unintentionally quoting the movies. I had also written a short story about an original character set in the Star Wars universe. I liked her character so much, I was going to write her in at the end of the original novel. Instead, I re-wrote the whole thing from her perspective and made her a major part of the story. Many of the same cheesy events still happen, but it's a much better story now. Instead of seeing the story from the same-old, same-old Luke, Leia and Han's perspective, you see the events through Ari's eyes as an outsider looking in and choosing between the Alliance and the Empire/neutrality.

I'd also suggest reading the book "Worlds of Wonder" by David Gerrold? which is all about how to write sci-fi and fantasy. I found it very useful. One of his ideas is to sit down and have a conversation (on paper) with one of your characters. You ask them questions, but they can ask you any question as well! Also, look online for the "Mary Sue test". This is a test you can give your characters to make sure that they are not just an "author's fantasy-fulfilling vehicle". There are several other good websites about writing fiction/fantasy that can help you create more believable characters and situations. Figure out what cliches you have and either change them or use them to your advantage.

Write the fantasy novel you've always wanted, but have never been able to find. My own fantasy story in progress is an attempt to be the opposite of many things I find annoying in fantasy novels. The world is (mostly) non-medival-Europe. Who is good and who is evil is not as obvious as it originally seems. The hero is female yet does not fall in love, nor is she an Amazon warrior. The bad guy thinks he is doing the right thing. There are no kings, princesses, magicians, or orcs. There is still the usual quest-with-epic-battle thing going on, but I tried to come at it from a different direction.

An art professor of mine taught me that giving yourself rules can improve the creativity in your art. I found that giving myself severe restrictions on using elements of medival European culture changed a lot of the story and made it less like the average fantasy novel. I had to be more creative to get around those rules and had to search other cultures for everything. Who rules if there is no king? What kind of shoes do they have if there are no cows?

Good luck! (holy epic post, Batman! )

Sounds like NoCamels has the right idea. Again, as much as I like reading a classic fantasy story, I really wouldn't want to just rehash those ideas and change a name here and there, which is what I've found is often the case now. Don't be restricted to a setting/genre just because you like it; think of all your different influences and try to use those along with some of your own creative inspiration to come up with something that will be new and original, even if it does have, as NoCamels said, something like "the usual quest-with-epic-battle thing going on". Just make sure that it isn't derivative beyond the point of inspiration. I'm probably rambling and again describing type of novel I'm intending to write, but hopefully you find some things in this post useful.

I just remembered...for instance, a couple years ago, when I was a junior in high school, I had to write a short story for a competition. I wrote a first-person narrative from the perspective of a hermit in a forest in medieval England, with occasional Monty Python-esque humor thrown in. The guy was completely deranged and essentially laid traps throughout the woods for any travelers that came by, and I had a flashback or two (which he narrated as a play, to make it seem more fictional to himself) about his earlier life. I also had a lot of fun thinking of exactly how he would create a life for himself in a forest, what substitutes for typical necessities he would use, etc.

Just an example.

Try writing something else as a break from this story. It doesn't have to be long, just even one page. This exercise is from a high school english class, but it worked well for me. Come up with a list of random unrelated words, or leaf through a dictionary, then pick two and start writing. Just let your mind wander and see what comes to mind. I once got a really strange story out of the words "tangerine" and "radio". It reminded me of a little orange radio I had as a kid, and I wrote about it like it was some ultra-powerful alien artifact. The story made no sense at all, but the whole exercise is about practicing your imagination and making yourself write.

You might get a weird piece like "The Tangerine Radio" or you might get something like "Tchbokk's Cantina" which was the short story where I got the character that I ended up re-writing my Star Wars fanfiction for. You never know.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/perma121803.html

This strikes me as potentially helpful.

http://www.seventhsanctum.com/www/index.html

Some articles in there proved useful. Making a deep history for your world even if it's irrelevant for the characters or even the reader helps you have a better understanding of the dynamics of the world.

Or you could face facts and realise that nothing is original for long.

I wrote a sitcom called "Sean of the Dead" due to the fact my friend Sean looked like one. 6 years later "Shaun" came out.

I wrote a Sci-fi series which would have no sound in space as a gimmick - 7 years later... Firefly.

I wrote a sitcom about slackers who live in a film induced lifestyle - "Spaced" arrived 2 years after.

on the flipside I wrote a horror film and later discovered it was almost exactly like "The Devil Rides Out" which I'd never heard of. Plus I wrote the pilot and full season breakdown for a new tv show that everyone I mentioned it to online told me was almost exactly the same as a book I've never heard of. (No details for this one as I'm still adamant it may happen - the book and my script are miles apart)

I've been unsuccessfully writing for 15 years now. *sobs*