Indy catches egg in ToD deleted scene?

Stoo

Well-known member
Sharkey said:
Wished you were right. Stoo's posts show that they planned the scene but we all knew that. Looking at all the making of stuff, the most I'll accept is that it got to the rehearsal stage but couldn't be pulled off.

So they filmed the bit parts leading up to a planned stunt that couldn't be done well. The stuff they filmed wasn't some crazy extra set up that differed from what we saw more than an extra take.
Without having seen it, you are complicating things in your own mind...:whip:

As far as I recall, the scene was executed with a sequence of QUICK shots. Indy catching the egg was a CLOSE-UP (so someone OFF-SCREEEN probably dropped the egg into Harrison's hand).
Sharkey said:
Matter of fact, Harrison seems like the kind of guy who would have killed the idea as stupid.
This isn't a FACT, Sharkey. It's your biased opinion. Who knows what Harrison thought?
Sharkey said:
Indy catching an egg maybe by accident maybe by super powers...more stupid sh!t.

Never filmed. Ever.
Well, it WAS filmed because I (and others) saw it. Many Indy fans here at The Raven seem to be into comic book, superhero sh!t so I don't see how the egg-catch would be a problem with them...:p
 

Darth Vile

New member
JayDee said:
And to show you that it can go the other way, too:

2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XczClAxhCEM


2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18O-Rj2MP9Q

So I don´t give a damn about quotes who are telling "They did not film this scene / Your memories are false."

With all due respect, there is a difference between an actor with no recollection of a an unused/deleted scene (e.g. ROTJ) which was categorically not in the original movie... and a scene that a few recall was in the movie but wasn't (egg sequence from TOD). It's highly possible that Ford filmed such a scene... and I'd love to see it if it still exists, but it was never in the movie I saw in the cinema (numerous times), on video or on DVD. I do remember people swearing blind that they saw the lightsabre building scene from ROTJ in the movie, just as I've had conversations with those who swear blind that when they first saw Star Wars in the cinema it contained the 'Luke at Tosche Station' footage. Memory can be funny like that.

Re. the ROTJ deleted scene. There is some conjecture that the particular scene in question has been bolted together with some digital magic. That may explain why, as far as Mark Hamill is concerned, he can't remember it i.e. the shots of Luke are probably made up other material e.g. out takes etc.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
JayDee said:
And to show you that it can go the other way, too:

2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XczClAxhCEM


2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18O-Rj2MP9Q

So I don´t give a damn about quotes who are telling "They did not film this scene / Your memories are false."

All that proves is how notoriously unreliable memory is! (though I wouldn't be surprised if Darth Vile's theory had a lot of truth to it.)

There has been an overwhelming amount of research that demonstrates just how notoriously bad memory is and how very easily false and phantom memories can be conjured, even false memories shared by numerous different parties.

In this case, it's very easy to see how - someone read or saw something in a book, later couldn't remember the source of the memory and invented a scene in their minds.

This happens All. The. Time. There's so much fascinating information on the subject, I encourage you to check some of it out.

Otherwise, we're supposed to believe there were mysterious different prints only shown in a few countries and there isn't one SHRED of evidence to support that years later? Not a single verifiable quote or still image or frame or ANYTHING?

Not buying it. We know SO much in this day and age about deleted and forgotten scenes. Things turn up. People talk. We've seen stills from deleted scenes from the Indy movies, random clips, etc. Heck, the FX teams and producers of the Indy movies have spent the last decade or two of their lives doing nothing but going on the interview circuit at conventions, for magazines, etc.

Without any actual hard evidence, this is nothing more than an urban myth.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
JayDee said:
So I don´t give a damn about quotes who are telling "They did not film this scene / Your memories are false."
Thank goodness at least someone here believes. Your faith is comforting, JayDee.:hat: Members have come & gone since this thread began 5 years ago but it's interesting to read earlier comments from 2006-2007. The replies are not full of doubt (except for possibly Moedred & VP).
Lance Quazar said:
Darth Vile said:
Memory can be funny like that.
@Lance and Darth: I find it quite humorous that you gents are trying to insist that some people have dodgy memories simply because you, yourselves, were not fortunate enough to have seen the scene in question. Without sounding like a braggart, my personal ability to recollect is razor sharp and my friends & family often say that I have an amazing memory. Honestly, I can remember being bathed in the sink as a baby!:eek:

This thread is a merge of 2 seperate ones where different individuals raised the egg topic based on their own memory. The subject has also been discussed on, at least, 3 other forums and 2 of them are general DVD forums not dedicated to Indiana Jones. (I'm assuming the one that JayDee found is the German Indy fan site.) Why would these people, independant of one another, mention the disappearance of the egg? Previously, Sharkey implied the 'power of suggestion' angle but it clearly does not qualify.

In this very thread, Chapter 11 wrote that he even remembers the audience's reaction to the egg catch. Lurkers such as mike and charlie k have come out of the woodwork to confirm that they have seen the egg so it's hard to understand egg-zactly why you guys don't believe the scene once egg-zisted.:confused:
Darth Vile said:
...but it was never in the movie I saw in the cinema (numerous times), on video or on DVD.
You live/grew up in the U.K., right? So, you didn't see the heart-ripping scene in the cinema either.;) It's obvious that there were alternate prints of "Doom". I saw the movie 5 times in theatres and the last time (February 1985), the egg scene wasn't there.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Stoo said:
@Lance and Darth: I find it quite humorous that you gents are trying to insist that some people have dodgy memories simply because you, yourselves, were not fortunate enough to have seen the scene in question. Without sounding like a braggart, my personal ability to recollect is razor sharp and my friends & family often say that I have an amazing memory. Honestly, I can remember being bathed in the sink as a baby!:eek:

This thread is a merge of 2 seperate ones where different individuals raised the egg topic based on their own memory. The subject has also been discussed on, at least, 3 other forums and 2 of them are general DVD forums not dedicated to Indiana Jones. (I'm assuming the one that JayDee found is the German Indy fan site.) Why would these people, independant of one another, mention the disappearance of the egg? Previously, Sharkey implied the 'power of suggestion' angle but it clearly does not qualify.

In this very thread, Chapter 11 wrote that he even remembers the audience's reaction to the egg catch. Lurkers such as mike and charlie k have come out of the woodwork to confirm that they have seen the egg so it's hard to understand egg-zactly why you guys don't believe the scene once egg-zisted.:confused:
You live/grew up in the U.K., right? So, you didn't see the heart-ripping scene in the cinema either.;) It's obvious that there were alternate prints of "Doom". I saw the movie 5 times in theatres and the last time (February 1985), the egg scene wasn't there.

This is eggzactly the kind of thing that happens all the time.

A couple people read something in a book, can't remember the source of their memory. Post about it online. Conversations begin, people reinforce each other, the story takes on a life of its own. Suddenly, several people "remember" the scene, their minds fill in the gaps of the event. Suddenly, they "remember" details of the scene, the audience's reaction, what shirt they were wearing, what the weather was like outside, etc.

This is a textbook example. The "evidence" of memory - even one supposedly "shared" by different people - is itself completely meaningless.

Absent actual, verifiable proof, this is still relegated to the "urban myth" file.

Please watch the following video, I think you may find it entertaining and illuminating - another example of how this process works.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid271552642?bctid=1534611161
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Sorry, Lance, I can't watch the video. It says: "The video you are trying to watch cannot be viewed from you current country or location."
Lance Quazar said:
A couple people read something in a book, can't remember the source of their memory. Post about it online. Conversations begin, people reinforce each other, the story takes on a life of its own.
You are continuing the 'power of suggestion' angle. What I remember was 12 years before my first access to the internet and (back then) nobody in my circle of friends was a bona-fide Indy fan so there was never a discussion that triggered a fake memory.

The whole idea of trying to prove that people's recollections of the egg scene are bogus is quite laughable. Are you a professional psychiastrist, Lance?:confused:
Lance Quazar said:
Otherwise, we're supposed to believe there were mysterious different prints only shown in a few countries and there isn't one SHRED of evidence to support that years later? Not a single verifiable quote or still image or frame or ANYTHING?
There WERE alternate prints of "Doom"! (Even "Raiders" had different prints...) As you must well know, theatrical releases were not commonly bootlegged in the early '80s like they are now so expecting/demanding instant photographic evidence is VERY NAIVE. This thread has become the quest for the evidence...(as hard as that search may be).

Note: It took 30 years before there was proof of the missing spider scene from the original "King Kong".
Lance Quazar said:
Without any actual hard evidence, this is nothing more than an urban myth.
Myth, Schmyth. It's time to face the truth: Other people saw the egg scene, you didn't.:p
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Stoo said:
What I remember was 12 years before my first access to the internet and (back then) nobody in my circle of friends was a bona-fide Indy fan so there was never a discussion that triggered a fake memory.

You may be onto something, if you didn't read the novelization. It's in there, in detail. Probably why we all remember vaugely the same way, despite the lack of discussion about it at the time.
 

teampunk

Member
they do send movies out and then send recuts out a few weeks later. i've seen a couple of movies that had scenes cut out after the first couple of weeks. jaws 4 and aspen extreme are two that i remember. we went to jaws 4 the first week it came out and the ending was different when i saw it again on vhs. aspin extreme had scenes cut from it after the first week it was out. so yeah, if they sent the movie out and it scenes didn't test well then they cut them. and back then it could take a few weeks for all the prints to be changed. they still do this. it just happened with the kings speech.
 

InexorableTash

Active member
I can think of three time-honored quotes which bear on the subject at hand:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.​

Ergo, the claim that something exists and yet there is no concrete record demands... well... something. Tantalizing evidence has been offered, such as widespread reports from a variety of sources, as well as evidence that similar things have occurred in the past and thus is it not outside the realm of the possible. Those same arguments, however, apply to UFOs, psychic powers, and secret government warehouses (and doubtless other plot elements considered for Indy 4 as found in the pages of the Time-Life series "Mysteries of the Unknown").

That said:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.​

...serves as a balancing counterpoint. No rational person on this board claims that because no evidence has yet surfaced that the egg scene made it into theaters in the 1980's that it therefore didn't happen. However, the first point demands that such a claim be backed up with evidence.

It is also entirely fair to proffer theories that explain the facts as we know them - that (a) such a scene was planned, and (b) some members of the board (and elsewhere) have memories of viewing the scene. As memories are simply data, and data may be false, it is entirely consistent to believe that both (1) the data exists and (2) that it is not accurate.

So there are at least two viable theories on the table - that the scene was shown theatrically due to variable edits as is known to have occurred during the 1980s but is now lost, or that memories to that effect are not accurate. Which one is true?

I close with a final quote:

Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.​

And I would argue that what we are searching for here are facts.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Stoo said:
@Lance and Darth: I find it quite humorous that you gents are trying to insist that some people have dodgy memories simply because you, yourselves, were not fortunate enough to have seen the scene in question. Without sounding like a braggart, my personal ability to recollect is razor sharp and my friends & family often say that I have an amazing memory. Honestly, I can remember being bathed in the sink as a baby!:eek:

This thread is a merge of 2 seperate ones where different individuals raised the egg topic based on their own memory. The subject has also been discussed on, at least, 3 other forums and 2 of them are general DVD forums not dedicated to Indiana Jones. (I'm assuming the one that JayDee found is the German Indy fan site.) Why would these people, independant of one another, mention the disappearance of the egg? Previously, Sharkey implied the 'power of suggestion' angle but it clearly does not qualify.

In this very thread, Chapter 11 wrote that he even remembers the audience's reaction to the egg catch. Lurkers such as mike and charlie k have come out of the woodwork to confirm that they have seen the egg so it's hard to understand egg-zactly why you guys don't believe the scene once egg-zisted.:confused:
You live/grew up in the U.K., right? So, you didn't see the heart-ripping scene in the cinema either.;) It's obvious that there were alternate prints of "Doom". I saw the movie 5 times in theatres and the last time (February 1985), the egg scene wasn't there.

Stoo - I'd actually like you to be right about this one (anything for new Indy footage), but all I'm trying to do is apply some common sense. You are right about the edited version of TOD for the UK - sans heart ripping scene. However, that was an officially distributed cut specifically for the British film classification i.e. it was a fully documented and legitimate release. I don't think anyone is doubting that movies get edited/cut for specific distribution and that multiple edits can co-exist. What's in question is the content of the specific cut.

Deleted material usually surfaces one way or another. For years we've had hard photographic evidence to suggest that Indy tied himself to the periscope of a sub, Luke Skywalker conversed with friends at Tosche Station etc. Do we have such evidence for the egg scene? I'm struggling to find anyone who has a grainy photo or similar.

If you say you saw that particular scene in the cinema... I'm going to take you at your word and believe that you believe you saw it. However, the evidence is largely anecdotal. Again - I hope you are right and that we perhaps get these deleted scenes for the blu-ray versions... Perhaps that will put to bed what scenes were shot and cut from the final edits.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Darth Vile said:
Stoo - I'd actually like you to be right about this one (anything for new Indy footage), but all I'm trying to do is apply some common sense. You are right about the edited version of TOD for the UK - sans heart ripping scene. However, that was an officially distributed cut specifically for the British film classification i.e. it was a fully documented and legitimate release. I don't think anyone is doubting that movies get edited/cut for specific distribution and that multiple edits can co-exist. What's in question is the content of the specific cut.

Deleted material usually surfaces one way or another. For years we've had hard photographic evidence to suggest that Indy tied himself to the periscope of a sub, Luke Skywalker conversed with friends at Tosche Station etc. Do we have such evidence for the egg scene? I'm struggling to find anyone who has a grainy photo or similar.

If you say you saw that particular scene in the cinema... I'm going to take you at your word and believe that you believe you saw it. However, the evidence is largely anecdotal. Again - I hope you are right and that we perhaps get these deleted scenes for the blu-ray versions... Perhaps that will put to bed what scenes were shot and cut from the final edits.

Agreed 110%.

I just think that if such a scene was actually filmed and RELEASED, we'd know about it by this point. We've seen stills from deleted scenes from other Indy films, or little random clips, bits of footage, etc. etc. We know about Sallah and the German soldier, we know about Indy and the periscope, we even saw a still from some of the original Grail Temple traps before they were reshot.

I just think that if there was truly another scene floating around, it would have surfaced in SOME form.

I think memory is very tricky and extremely unreliable. We convince ourselves we actually witnessed things we did not (see the video linked above.)

Over time, it becomes nearly impossible for us to remember what is "real" and what isn't.

Here's a recent and personal example - a while back, I read a sample script for "the Office" that a friend had written. The script was pretty good.

A few months later, I remembered the events of the script as if I had actually seen them on the show. I was certain - for a little while, anyway - that I that episode existed in reality, not just in my mind.

I'm suggesting something very similar has happened here. Something was read in a book, but the memory was pushed aside and largely forgotten.

Eventually, a fragmented memory about an egg scene was all that remained, but without the context of the book, your mind "remembered" it differently - surely it must have been in the movie.

There's no reason that couldn't have happened several independent times to several different people. And once people start chatting it up on the internet, reinforcing each other's stories - suddenly we have verification! And we become even MORE convinced that our memory must have been real.

This happens every day. With individuals and large groups of people. See the link I posted on the other page - countless people were convinced they saw footage of a bomb going off and described the footage in detail - even though none exists.

Of course it is POSSIBLE that such a scene actually does exist. But given that we must dismiss these "memories" of a 25 year old event - even memories "confirmed" through multiple sources, as being totally unreliable as proof, the only reasonable conclusion to draw is that we need actual hard evidence before we can say definitively that it exists.

Extraordinary claims and all....
 

Stoo

Well-known member
michael said:
Surely someone from this list must be available through e-mail, that wouldn't mind shedding some light on the matter, no?

http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/credits.php
Go for it, Michael! The task is all yours.:D:whip:
Pale Horse said:
You may be onto something, if you didn't read the novelization. It's in there, in detail. Probably why we all remember vaugely the same way, despite the lack of discussion about it at the time.
To be honest & fair, I did read the novel back in '84. (Still have it, too!) I realize this fact is detrimental to the claim but must raise a question once again: Out of ALL the extra stuff in the novel, why do some people recall seeing the egg scene and not any of the other parts?
teampunk said:
they do send movies out and then send recuts out a few weeks later. i've seen a couple of movies that had scenes cut out after the first couple of weeks. jaws 4 and aspen extreme are two that i remember. we went to jaws 4 the first week it came out and the ending was different when i saw it again on vhs. aspin extreme had scenes cut from it after the first week it was out. so yeah, if they sent the movie out and it scenes didn't test well then they cut them. and back then it could take a few weeks for all the prints to be changed. they still do this. it just happened with the kings speech.
Thanks for chiming in, teampunk, and nice examples!(y) The 2nd & 3rd times I saw "Raiders" at the theatre, the lightbeam/spike trap scene was removed!:eek:
InexorableTash said:
So there are at least two viable theories on the table - that the scene was shown theatrically due to variable edits as is known to have occurred during the 1980s but is now lost, or that memories to that effect are not accurate. Which one is true?
The former is true.:) GREAT post, Tash, but I have to disagree with the quote of "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." We're talking about a 15-25 second scene in a movie...not a Bigfoot sighting or an alien in my bedroom. It's not that extraordinary. (Keep in mind that it wasn't only in theatrical releases because some people say they have seen it on VHS.)

@Lance: Still can't watch the video. It's giving me the same message. (You mentioned a still of the Grail Temple traps. Do you mean the spider? I have 2 seconds of footage of that: http://www.youtube.com/user/StooTV#p/u/21/dygigbJ3wuA)

@Darth: I was just kidding about not seeing the heart-ripping scene because its omission was obviously due to UK censorship and not in the same category as the egg. Just yolking around, Darth.;)

Both of you, Lance & Darth, are saying that if it existed we would have some evidence by this point in time...27 years later. Unfortunately, we don't so the hunt is on. If you desire to see any new/old footage then join me in the quest instead of suggesting that some people are suffering from delusions. (If you feel that the search is a fruitless effort, then fine.)

It must be said that all this 'false memory' talk is both mildly insulting & funny at the same time. However, to show you that I have a good sense of humour, from now on, feel free to refer to me as Stoo deMille in this thread.:p
 
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Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Stoo said:
Out of ALL the extra stuff in the novel, why do some people recall seeing the egg scene and not any of the other parts?

'cause swagger is just cool. (re: James Bond)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Calling Dennis Bruhn / Sankara

To the German fans, JayDee and Hanselation: Are either of you in touch with Dennis Bruhn? (He used to be a Raven member named, Sankara, who was eventually banned.) The reason I ask is because he is, supposedly, the largest Indiana Jones collector in Germany. It's possible that he has every German VHS release in his collection.
Pale Horse said:
'cause swagger is just cool. (re: James Bond)
Pale Horse, I...don't...understand...:confused:
 

JayDee

Member
Stoo said:
To the German fans, JayDee and Hanselation: Are either of you in touch with Dennis Bruhn? (He used to be a Raven member named, Sankara, who was eventually banned.) The reason I ask is because he is, supposedly, the largest Indiana Jones collector in Germany. It's possible that he has every German VHS release in his collection.
Pale Horse, I...don't...understand...:confused:

I still know him from a Star Wars board. I will try contact him.
 
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