Disney's Frozen

Le Saboteur · Sep 4, 2014

The Drifter said:
I haven't even watched Frozen. I'm so outta the loop...

You really should get In the Loop.

kongisking said:
I'm curious to hear thoughts by Raveners...

No, you really don't. Despite some whiz bang animation, Frozen is a middling B-grade effort from the House of Mouse. Especially for it's vaunted animated musicals; absolutely nothing is memorable about the movie's songs. Not even the "Let if Go" anthem*. "Friends on the Other Side" from La Principessa E Il Ranocchio is a much, much better song.

*- It's a bad sign when the movie's best song happens in the first fifteen minutes. I guess Alan Menken was too busy with The First Avenger.

Stoo said:
That title sounds like another stupid superhero movie.

I will marshal all the forces of media darkness to hound you to an assisted suicide.

kongisking said:
Do you watch Once Upon a Time...

Nope. But I do have sisters so I've seen a handful of episodes, and I checked out right around when Little Red Riding Hood ate her boyfriend and everybody thought that was cool.

kongisking · Sep 4, 2014

Le Saboteur said:
Despite some whiz bang animation, Frozen is a middling B-grade effort from the House of Mouse. Especially for it's vaunted animated musicals; absolutely nothing is memorable about the movie's songs. Not even the "Let if Go" anthem*. "Friends on the Other Side" from La Principessa E Il Ranocchio is a much, much better song.

Shrug. You have your standards, I have mine.

But thankfully, the viral popularity of the music in it proves dead wrong your claim nothing is memorable about them. In times like this, it is a lovely idea to remember:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pWdd6_ZxX8c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But hey, I can do the same. After all, I personally was rather underwhelmed by Princess and the Frog (Keith David notwithstanding). The difference is that my opinion concerning Frozen happens to have an army behind it.

Pale Horse · Sep 4, 2014

kongisking said:
The difference is that my opinion concerning Frozen happens to have an army behind it.

That's like saying you'll slaughter me with cotton balls. It has no weight behind it. It's just kumbaya for a new generation.

kongisking · Sep 4, 2014

Pale Horse said:
That's like saying you'll slaughter me with cotton balls. It has no weight behind it. It's just kumbaya for a new generation.

Right on! Fandoms, pfftttt. Silly pointless, meaningless fads. They're just proof people are stupid.

What does that make us, hmm?

And you also clearly missed the Avengers reference I was going for, given I was talking to Le Sab...

Attila the Professor · Sep 4, 2014

kongisking said:
Right on! Fandoms, pfftttt. Silly pointless, meaningless fads. They're just proof people are stupid.

What does that make us, hmm?

Loyal followers of a lost cause?

The last bastion of support for the idea that there can be great popular movies blending the classical Hollywood cinema and the uneasy, auteur-driven works of the 1970s?

A bunch fiercely fighting off the awareness that the men who made this film series are those to blame for the blockbusters of today?

You know. Morons.

kongisking · Sep 4, 2014

Attila the Professor said:
Loyal followers of a lost cause?

The last bastion of support for the idea that there can be great popular movies blending the classical Hollywood cinema and the uneasy, auteur-driven works of the 1970s?

A bunch fiercely fighting off the awareness that the men who made this film series are those to blame for the blockbusters of today?

You know. Morons.

This begs the classic question: if such folks have really become so bitter about this, why are they still on a site made for people, who actually still love and cherish this property, to share their affection for it? By sticking around, they poison the fun for those who still give a crap.

And when people try to liven the joint up by talking about other things, those 'fans' act dismissive and snobbish to them. Go figure.

Its really not a big surprise that a number of my pals I've made from this site stop attending The Raven regularly, because the overall atmosphere sucks the joy out of conversations in the forums.

I must admit, when I bumped this thread, I didn't expect the typical cynicism and hipster-ness to be so prominent. I thought this movie was fairly respected by the bar's regulars. Oh well. In hindsight, it was as predictable an outcome as bringing up a computer game you really liked...in a room of Amish people. You get either crickets chirping or sneers.

And FWI, Le Saboteur, that little quip toward Stoo was insensitive in the extreme, but in your defense, you had no way of knowing that. Now you do.

Pale Horse · Sep 4, 2014

Attila the Professor said:
You know. Morons.

Spoken from a man who's received the Enlightened Illumination of what it truly means to "Let it Go".

P.s. I've never seen Avengers.

Attila the Professor · Sep 4, 2014

kongisking said:
This begs the classic question: if such folks have really become so bitter about this, why are they still on a site made for people, who actually still love and cherish this property, to share their affection for it? By sticking around, they poison the fun for those who still give a crap.

I'm sorry. Did I say something <I>against</I> the Indy film series in that post? (Other than stating that the works of Lucas and Spielberg have given us the summer blockbuster culture of today?)

You have seen <I>Blazing Saddles</I>, yes? It's not exactly old.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KHJbSvidohg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

* * *

Ok, <I>Frozen</I>. The basic concept is wonderful, a princess movie that is hardly a romance at all, but instead focuses on two female protagonists. But it doesn't hang together as well as it might, and spends an awful lot of time on that snowman.

And "Let It Go" is the sort of song that gives the Broadway-style ballad of today a bad name.

* * *

Pale Horse said:
P.s. I've never seen Avengers.

It's not bad for what it is. But geez, do the action scenes drag on and on.

kongisking · Sep 4, 2014

Attila the Professor said:
I'm sorry. Did I say something <I>against</I> the Indy film series in that post? (Other than stating that the works of Lucas and Spielberg have given us the summer blockbuster culture of today?)

You have seen <I>Blazing Saddles</I>, yes? It's not exactly old.

I misread your comment's tone as having bitterness toward the Indy series for such a thing. And I also did not remember that line from Saddles. My bad.

Ok, <I>Frozen</I>. The basic concept is wonderful, a princess movie that is hardly a romance at all, but instead focuses on two female protagonists. But it doesn't hang together as well as it might, and spends an awful lot of time on that snowman.

And "Let It Go" is the sort of song that gives the Broadway-style ballad of today a bad name.

The difference between Olaf and, say, Jar Jar Binks, another prominent comedic character, is: one is an interesting, funny, likable and plot-relevant character, not to mention appropriate to the tone of their movie, and the other isn't.

In other words, I found him an effective and perfectly utilized comic relief sidekick. Especially considering I was primed and ready to hate him, from the trailers I'd seen.

And can you explain how Let It Go does such a thing? It's honestly unfathomable to imagine someone objectively thinking the song sucks, if that's what you're getting at. Overrated? I'll understand that, especially if you've gotten tired of hearing it everywhere. But bad?

I wonder if folks thought this about "Circle of Life" or "Hakuna Matata" back in the day...

Attila the Professor · Sep 4, 2014

kongisking said:
The difference between Olaf and, say, Jar Jar Binks, another prominent comedic character, is: one is an interesting, funny, likable and plot-relevant character, not to mention appropriate to the tone of their movie, and the other isn't. In other words, I found him an effective and perfectly utilized comic relief sidekick. Especially considering I was primed and ready to hate him, from the trailers I'd seen.

I can't speak to Jar Jar except for by reputation, but I agree with you that Olaf wasn't as bad as he might have been. Still, he doesn't seem to fit culturally; even though snowmen aren't a North American thing by any means, he's still pretty non-specific to the context.

He also takes away from time that could have been spent delving deeper into the sisters' relationship.

kongisking said:
And can you explain how Let It Go does such a thing? It's honestly unfathomable to imagine someone objectively thinking the song sucks, if that's what you're getting at. Overrated? I'll understand that, especially if you've gotten tired of hearing it everywhere. But bad?

I find it overwrought and overblown. But I've never been crazy about that sort of big-voiced Broadway number, of the type exemplified by Menzel's star-making role in <I>Wicked</I>.

kongisking · Sep 4, 2014

Attila the Professor said:
I can't speak to Jar Jar except for by reputation, but I agree with you that Olaf wasn't as bad as he might have been. Still, he doesn't seem to fit culturally; even though snowmen aren't a North American thing by any means, he's still pretty non-specific to the context.

Well, if we're get into that kind of nitpick-ery, Aladdin is a horrendous spawn of Satan.

I find it overwrought and overblown. But I've never been crazy about that sort of big-voiced Broadway number, of the type exemplified by Menzel's star-making role in <I>Wicked</I>.

Okay then. I can't fault you for simply not liking that kind of music in the first place. But if that's the case, its not the song's fault that you didn't like it, really.

I mean...for example, I acknowledge that I simply don't like anime as a general personal taste thing, but that doesn't mean its worthless, and I have seen excellent works in that style.

The Drifter · Sep 4, 2014

Seriously, what does it matter? Why all the back-and-forth? Not everyone is gonna like this movie and they all have their own reasons as to why. Kong, you seem like a cool cat but you tend to grow upset when someone dislikes something that you do. Hell, I like to watch wrestling, but the majority of people I converse with hate it. Does it bother me? Not at all. I don't go on endless tirades trying to make them like it.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I meant no ill will towards you.

kongisking · Sep 5, 2014

The Drifter said:
Seriously, what does it matter? Why all the back-and-forth? Not everyone is gonna like this movie and they all have their own reasons as to why. Kong, you seem like a cool cat but you tend to grow upset when someone dislikes something that you do. Hell, I like to watch wrestling, but the majority of people I converse with hate it. Does it bother me? Not at all. I don't go on endless tirades trying to make them like it.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I meant no ill will towards you.

No worries, I don't. Its definitely true I try to (in my mind, heroically) defend the stuff I like, and I can get over-reactive about it sometimes. And I certainly get extra-fanatical if I think the criticisms are unfair or approaching 'Its Popular Now It Sucks' type thinking, which I've always disliked.

I think as I ponder all this, I just feel a little sad to see pretty much only negativity about the film, after bumping the thread in hopes I could have some neat, positive conversations about the movie and how it has been embraced by fans.

Pale Horse · Sep 5, 2014

kongisking said:
I think the criticisms are unfair or approaching 'Its Popular Now It Sucks' type thinking, which I've always disliked.

Okay, it seems as though once again the forum self moderated. I love it. To that end I say this in a respectable way to kong. If the above is one perspective, there is a flip side. That would be the "wow-people-like-this-lets-shove-it-down-their-throats-in-every-conceivable-possible-manner". That is just as nauseating.

Perhaps moderation in all things is best course.

Finn · Sep 5, 2014

kongisking said:
I think as I ponder all this, I just feel a little sad to see pretty much only negativity about the film, after bumping the thread in hopes I could have some neat, positive conversations about the movie and how it has been embraced by fans.

It's also good to keep in mind that in many cases, The Raven provides anything but accurate representation of various fandoms. So that's another reason not to get worked up over it.

Pale Horse · Sep 5, 2014

Finn said:
It's also good to keep in mind that in many cases, The Raven provides anything but accurate representation of various fandoms. So that's another reason not to get worked up over it.

How odd to think that TheRaven is actually more akin to real life, than fandom. Perhaps that's why (there are no more movies) and all the 'fans' have left, and only real people exist here.

Long Live the Raven!

jsarino · Sep 5, 2014

Pale Horse said:
If the above is one perspective, there is a flip side. That would be the "wow-people-like-this-lets-shove-it-down-their-throats-in-every-conceivable-possible-manner". That is just as nauseating.

Disney typically does this in spades. Just the other day, they had yet another "special" on Frozen on network TV. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the film (especially with my kiddos), but there's a point where you're oversaturating a product that you can't be surprised there'll be some sort of backlash.

Kong, keep remaining passionate about the things you believe in.

At the same token, have an open mind on people's perspectives, be it pro or con.

Montana Smith · Sep 5, 2014

Pale Horse said:
That's like saying you'll slaughter me with cotton balls. It has no weight behind it. It's just kumbaya for a new generation.

Never underestimate the willingness of Disney princesses to make a nuisance of themselves.

Pale Horse said:
How odd to think that TheRaven is actually more akin to real life, than fandom. Perhaps that's why (there are no more movies) and all the 'fans' have left, and only real people exist here.

Long Live the Raven!

Bloody musicals!

There's only two bloody musicals I liked: Sweeney Todd and the Buffy episode, "Once More, with Feeling".

Stoo · Sep 5, 2014

kongisking said:
We must keep in mind, Stoo, that your distaste for this sort of thing probably means you don't actively look up or interact with the fandom of the film. Believe me, as someone who does, this thing was a huge pop culture event here in the States, and I've read about it making a big splash overseas too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_(2013_film)#Cultural_impact

Honestly, my friend, you should take all of this anger and just 'let it go.'*

You're misunderstanding my post. I'm not saying that the movie is bad because I haven't seen it (and probably never will).

You called the movie "an ubiquitous pop culture force in the world". If this was truly the case, one shouldn't have to "actively look up" its popularity because it would be unavoidably noticeable while going about everyday life. I travel quite often to 2 Canadian provinces, throughout Switzerland and its neighbouring countries, watch European TV channels, etc. and can tell you again that this thread is the only reason I know the movie exists. I've no doubt that the movie is a sensation in The States but it's not as globally "ubiquitous" as you think.

Furthermore, the link you provided talks about the popularity only in the U.S. and the U.K. (with an emphasis on children and pre-schoolers).

kongisking said:
I thought this movie was fairly respected by the bar's regulars.

Until 2 hours ago, only *1* other person in this thread said that they liked it.

kongisking said:
And FWI, Le Saboteur, that little quip toward Stoo was insensitive in the extreme, but in your defense, you had no way of knowing that. Now you do.

He knows what happened (while we drank beers in Oakland) but he also knows that I'm big enough to handle jokes like that.

Finn · Sep 5, 2014

Montana Smith said:
Never underestimate the willingness of Disney princesses to make a nuisance of themselves.

What the hell is that thing Jasmine is wielding? And something's about to burst out of her left hip.

Also, Mulan's trigger safety is abysmal.

Disney's Frozen

Active member

Active member

Moderator

Active member

Moderator

Active member

Moderator

Moderator

Active member

Moderator

Active member

New member

Active member

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Moderator